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Author Topic: Have you considered joining the dark side?...  (Read 34252 times)

odie

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #150 on: July 21, 2012, 06:05:48 AM »
Arrrrghggh!!!!! ...continuing from my last post about joining the dark side and realising that the Nikon Services is a bunch of shambles, I finally got my lens back.

Short story:

Lens has a speck of something inside (there since purchase I think 2 weeks ago) and took it to clean
Initially they wanted to charge me HK$500 for it but got it down to $0 after a long argument.
2 weeks down the line I was told it's fixed but they managed to introduce 100 more inside after close inspection so back it went.

2 weeks later (yesterday) I got another call and this time the lens is totally clean... YAHEY!!

Today I took it out for a photoshoot and then..... the dreaded grinding sound appeared from nowhere. It sounded as if there was grit on the focus ring between the barrel or something? or more like gears clicking on rotation!!!!

This cannot be normal right? How can a company as big as this not check the lens (twice) after servicing? it's not a 50.8... it cost me over HK$12000!!! I dread what to think if I take it in again tomorrow. Maybe the next time I'll get it back without the nanocoating or a missing lens element.

DO NOT GO OVER TO THE DARK SIDE!!! I'll switch back when the 1DX is in abundance.

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #150 on: July 21, 2012, 06:05:48 AM »

Bruce Photography

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #151 on: July 21, 2012, 01:51:22 PM »
Nothing like a morning wake up to a read designed to create controversy  ;)

Both sides of the fence have good and bad points, lenses or features the other wants.
I've looked at the Nikon stuff a few times whilst in the shops - but I just don't get on with the lay out of the equipment on the bodies.

Nikon does have the one thing i would like - the 14-24 lens. I do love the options this lens provides in picture creation, but one lens is not enough to justify a swap.

That said, i am busy selling a whole load of kit because i realised i had become guilty of buying too much at once. Once i've finished selling all the kit, i will stick with a single 5D3, 50mm f1.2 L and 430 EXII flash for a while.

As has been said on more than one occasion, knowing how to use your kit is much more important than owning all of Canon's catalogue and not knowing how to use it!

Nikon? Most of my friends shoot with Nikon - but most were envious of my 5D2 and 24-105 f4 L!

Good for you!  There is something to be said for having a small kit and really knowing each flocal length and each F stop so well that you see your equipment in your sleep.  Now to respond:  Yes the 14-24 is quite a lens.  I shoot Canon and Nikon and with a Novoflex adapter I can easily use the 14-24 on a Canon as well as my Nikon D800E as long as I don't need autofocus.  I'm mostly a landscape photographer so this switch works for me.  However the resolution jump means that my Canon sits out when I want to use the 14-24.  I do bring it out when I use the 17 and 24 tse lenes from Canon with their dual axis control.  I'm trying to warm up to the Nikon 24 pc-e but it just doesn't hold up to the mark II version of the 24tse Canon.   I still want a Canon 40mp camera body or for Nikon to make a 24 (a 20 or 22 would be better) mark II version pc-e with dual axis without having to send the lens back to Nikon for them to take it apart and put shift and tilt on the same axis. 

I don't know what your Nikon friends have to shoot with but if they have the D800 or the D800E with the 24-120 there should be no reason for any envious feeling.  Both are F4 lens and the real world testing that I've done shows to me that they are very similar (except that Nikon goes just alittle further).

7enderbender

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #152 on: July 21, 2012, 10:09:21 PM »
Have used Canon since I was a kid. The stuff is good enough and I'm used to the conventions. If my dad had had Nikon instead it might be different.

If money was no object I'd very likely have Leica and Canon gear. I'd probably be carrying around an M9 with a fast 50mm lens 90% of the time. And I don't think that qualifies as the dark side. So, no - no dark side for me.
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ishdakuteb

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #153 on: July 22, 2012, 12:33:18 AM »
imo, both canon and nikon are good brands and they both produce good images.  however, i only switch brand as if i have to such as if i have to; otherwise, prefer to keep the same brand... (note:  for point and shoot, i rather buy canon than nikon...)

Aglet

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #154 on: July 22, 2012, 04:23:41 AM »
I need to do some head-to-head shooting with my 5D2 and D800 but from the disparate shots I've already done the D800 at low ISO totally kicks the 5D2 into the woods.  The more I review 5D2 images the more its shadow banding noise flaws show up.
I recently shot a bunch of family portraits for a friend, using the 5D2.
outdoors, cloudy day, flash fill; 3 people wore pants of varying shades of dark gray.

When prepping the files for print it was grossly obvious ON SCREEN how much banding there was visible on the darkest clothing with a lesser degree visible on the next lighter shade.  Everything else looked fabulous.  Fortunately, at the small sizes they wanted printed they won't see the noise on those dark gray pants.  But it would be obvious if it was a 20x30" print.

When I shoot scenes with even much greater DR, I can pull far more shadow detail from the D800's raw file without any concern for pattern noise, or any real noise at all at low ISO settings!

I'm sold, the Nik's a worthy addition to my collection.  I'll use it whenever I need to record scenes that have anything dark in them.  The DARK side indeed!

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #155 on: July 22, 2012, 08:13:30 AM »
I need to do some head-to-head shooting with my 5D2 and D800 but from the disparate shots I've already done the D800 at low ISO totally kicks the 5D2 into the woods.  The more I review 5D2 images the more its shadow banding noise flaws show up.
I recently shot a bunch of family portraits for a friend, using the 5D2.
outdoors, cloudy day, flash fill; 3 people wore pants of varying shades of dark gray.

When prepping the files for print it was grossly obvious ON SCREEN how much banding there was visible on the darkest clothing with a lesser degree visible on the next lighter shade.  Everything else looked fabulous.  Fortunately, at the small sizes they wanted printed they won't see the noise on those dark gray pants.  But it would be obvious if it was a 20x30" print.

When I shoot scenes with even much greater DR, I can pull far more shadow detail from the D800's raw file without any concern for pattern noise, or any real noise at all at low ISO settings!

I'm sold, the Nik's a worthy addition to my collection.  I'll use it whenever I need to record scenes that have anything dark in them.  The DARK side indeed!

Same experience here with 5D2 with raw capture :(   It is just a "normal" shoot of a model in black dress outdoor at ISO100.
The red colour noise is so visible on the black dress without noise reduction! Had to dialup NR in LR so much that some detail of the dress is lost to completely remove the color noise...  Sigh... if Canon can't do it at ISO100, forget about those ISO800 shots!
It is such a basic requirement!


Aglet

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #156 on: July 23, 2012, 02:03:22 AM »
Same experience here with 5D2 with raw capture :(   It is just a "normal" shoot of a model in black dress outdoor at ISO100.
The red colour noise is so visible on the black dress without noise reduction! Had to dialup NR in LR so much that some detail of the dress is lost to completely remove the color noise...  Sigh... if Canon can't do it at ISO100, forget about those ISO800 shots!
It is such a basic requirement!

When I first got my 5D2 I was so excited to finally play with what everyone was raving about.
 :-\  I was not impressed from the first shot. 

Raw noise levels were worse than my 40D and I had visible banding right smack in the MIDtones at low ISO!  That was with the earlier firmware, 1.something, a version or 2 after they fixed the black-dot issue.
I should have sent the camera back but instead I parked it for about a year until, finally, later firmware versions mitigated the midtone banding and the camera was at least usable.  If the shot didn't contain anything really dark the results really were actually impressive at that point and I used it for a lot of landscape and some low-light indoor event shooting.  It was a pretty decent performer in its early days but it certainly left me disappointed in many ways.

Today I was out on a short hike and took only one camera; a D5100 and a few lenses, tripod and small white reflector to use when doing some close-up and macro shots on wildflowers and similar.  I almost took the D800 as well but decided to try travel light and I really didn't think I'd need the extra rez.  Mostly used a 105mm macro and mounted the cheapo 55-200mm kit zoom a couple shots where I needed some extra reach.
I could have just as easily taken a Canon Rebel, 100mm macro and something like their 55-2X0 lens or even their fairly good 18-200mm superzoom.  But I now know better.
Since it was a bright sunny day and I was going to be shooting in the open and possibly in the wooded areas with a mix of sunlight and deep shadow there was no way I was going to use a camera that could not handle the dynamics of such a scene.  The Canons stayed at home and the new puppy came along for the walk. 
It performed admirably and obediently and I took 132 shots with raw files I can tweak as much as I'd like without any worry of pattern noise showing up to ruin the effect and I don't have to worry about using any NR and risk losing some detail. 
That's what I want from a camera and I found some that can finally deliver.
It's just too bad I had to alter my mfr allegiance to do so.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 02:06:10 AM by Aglet »

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #156 on: July 23, 2012, 02:03:22 AM »

peederj

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #157 on: July 23, 2012, 02:20:36 AM »
I don't know if Sony is considered The Dark Side along with Nikon, but I ordered an RX100. My first non-Canon in over 10 years.

Canon is not in a good way right now. My 5D3 makes me happy enough, but it could have been a lot more video-wise. I went to Sony for 1080p/60fps which Canon simply could not manage to provide me at any price.

#Fail.

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #158 on: August 02, 2012, 06:29:04 PM »
I'm surprised anyone would do this given the change in design and leadership roles in the past 5 year, or even the past 5 minutes. What happens when Canon introduces the 'super' high res DSLR that simply blows away the  others?  Sell the 'others' and return to Canon?

We are all gear heads to some degree but gear is secondary to design, controlling the light and your artistic ability. Look at what the masters have done in the past with limited technology.

Wish you all the best.  Gee, what Canon glass you have up for sale?
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canon816

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #159 on: August 02, 2012, 07:10:40 PM »
I'm surprised anyone would do this given the change in design and leadership roles in the past 5 year, or even the past 5 minutes. What happens when Canon introduces the 'super' high res DSLR that simply blows away the  others?  Sell the 'others' and return to Canon?

We are all gear heads to some degree but gear is secondary to design, controlling the light and your artistic ability. Look at what the masters have done in the past with limited technology.

Wish you all the best.  Gee, what Canon glass you have up for sale?

Agreed.  Honestly, you can't go wrong with any of the top brands of DSLR's.  They all have the capacity to make magnificent images.  It's nice when the tools have all the bells and whistles... but specs don't take great images...

akiskev

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #160 on: August 03, 2012, 08:44:55 AM »
When I first got my 5D2 I was so excited to finally play with what everyone was raving about.
 :-\  I was not impressed from the first shot. 

Raw noise levels were worse than my 40D and I had visible banding right smack in the MIDtones at low ISO! 
QFT. not.  :P :P :P
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Aglet

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #161 on: August 03, 2012, 01:01:00 PM »
Agreed.  Honestly, you can't go wrong with any of the top brands of DSLR's.  They all have the capacity to make magnificent images.  It's nice when the tools have all the bells and whistles... but specs don't take great images...

some more than others
specs define the limits of what you can do with the captured image and some of us can tell you, after shooting other systems, Canon's images are a bit more limiting in post.  We're not talkin' snapshots here. And you can't always control the light.



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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #162 on: August 14, 2012, 01:47:53 PM »
As mentioned before it has crossed my mind and it is not because I think the dark side is better, but I think Canon is losing the plot in terms of getting their products out to the clients.

But to change the topic a BIT... Would you advise someone else to rather join the dark side looking at the entry level DSLR cameras and current availability?

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #162 on: August 14, 2012, 01:47:53 PM »

Aglet

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #163 on: August 14, 2012, 04:05:34 PM »
But to change the topic a BIT... Would you advise someone else to rather join the dark side looking at the entry level DSLR cameras and current availability?

I used to recommend Canon entry level DSLRs without hesitation for newbies.
Now I have to temper that with, "What kind of shooting will you be doing?" Because the D5100 and now the  D3200 can fit slightly more advanced novices who intend to do some post-processing and will have some appreciation for the cleaner raw files from the sonikon bodies.

Canon's Rebels are, of course, still a good choice too.  but anyone aspiring to grow beyond this as a first camera has a bit more to think about now.  it's good to have options, confusing tho it can be.

hhelmbold

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #164 on: August 15, 2012, 01:53:36 AM »

I used to recommend Canon entry level DSLRs without hesitation for newbies.
Now I have to temper that with, "What kind of shooting will you be doing?" Because the D5100 and now the  D3200 can fit slightly more advanced novices who intend to do some post-processing and will have some appreciation for the cleaner raw files from the sonikon bodies.

Canon's Rebels are, of course, still a good choice too.  but anyone aspiring to grow beyond this as a first camera has a bit more to think about now.  it's good to have options, confusing tho it can be.

This is exactly my feeling and deliberately just threw out the question without my opinion to see if others are feeling the same  :D I think Canon has quite a gap to fill in some areas

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Re: Have you considered joining the dark side?...
« Reply #164 on: August 15, 2012, 01:53:36 AM »