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Author Topic: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value  (Read 13615 times)

distant.star

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Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« on: April 20, 2012, 04:37:22 PM »

Maybe I'm just a cheapskate; if so, so be it. Maybe I value my dollars differently than others. Anyway, I've decided I can't justify 3500 Tracy dollars for the 5D3.

As I said here several times before the 5D2 successor showed up, rather than speculating/hoping/fantasizing, I would wait to see what Canon offered, then make a decision about what to do. After limping along for two years with T2i limitations, I knew I wanted an affordable tool that would provide 5D2 image quality and low-light capabilities with 7D or better autofocus speed and versatility.

The new 5D3 has delivered exactly what I want. Low-light capability seems at least marginally improved and the AF is all I would ever need. Despite hearing some whining about sensor capabilities, dynamic range, etc., I suspect Canon realizes this sensor produces image quality better than what a large percentage of users actually need or can use. It surely produces images that satisfy me. So, from a practical standpoint, the 5D3 is my ideal camera.

Only Canon knows why they've priced the 5D3 as they have. I can speculate along with everyone else, but the improvements over the 5D2 don't warrant the additional cost for me. I can see a wedding photographer biting his lip and paying the extra money because the critical improvements give him reasonable value. There may be some other businesses that see it as a reasonable (affordable -- and also available) alternative to the new 1Dx. So, for me, I've decided on my own current solution. It's the 7D with some lens upgrades.

The plan that's evolved as a cheaper 5D3 solution for me is this:

1. Replace the T2i with a new 7D.

2. Upgrade (my interpretation) my walkaround lens from the 15-85mm to a 17-55mm.

3. Upgrade my 70-200 f/4.0L to a 70-200 f/4.0L IS.

4. Get a 10-22mm for the wide side.

I've got an ef-s 60mm that's adequate for macro, but I'll keep it mostly for the non-macro look it provides. I don't know what it is, but that has become a favorite lens for landscape type shots. I'll keep my 135mm f/2.0L for serious headhunting, and I'll keep the 100-400L for the great reach.

This also allows me to sell the EOS-1V as I won't need it for the great AF. Yesterday I was shooting around town with the T2i in one hand and the 1V in the other (with the 70-200) and it's speed is nothing short of joy. The contrast between the two helped make this decision.

One reason I got the T2i initially was that it was the cheapest entry to a decent digital camera. It has virtually the same sensor as the 7D, so if you can sacrifice the upscale capabilities of the 7D you can work with a T2i and good lenses. Here's an image that makes that case for me:





That was taken yesterday with the T2i and has all the IQ I'd ever realistically need. However that is one of perhaps 50 I took of gulls flying around me. The AF simply can't do the job; this shot just got lucky. With a 7D, this shot won't require luck -- or a one out of fifty keeper ratio. And as I've often said, for street photography, by the time the T2i gets it together, the shot is gone. I saw that again yesterday with the lightning speed of the 1V. Even using film, as soon as the shutter button is actuated, the shot is made.

Anyway, perhaps this will help others wrestling with the 5D3 pricing. If you're thinking about Nikon, well that's a different issue!



Walter: Were you listening to The Dude's story? Donny: I was bowling. Walter: So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

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Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« on: April 20, 2012, 04:37:22 PM »

unfocused

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 05:19:40 PM »
Makes sense to me.

But then, I have zero interest in a full frame at this point and I'm simply looking forward to what Canon will offer in the 7DII to entice me to upgrade.

Not sure about your lens choices however. Just a few random thoughts.

Are you keeping the 15-85? You won't gain any sharpness with the 17-55 f2.8, just aperture. Be aware of what you are losing at the wide and long ends.

Give some thought as to whether or not 200mm is long enough for you. One reason I'll never give up APS-C is I'm too spoiled by the reach of the crop sensor.  The 70-300 "L" is overpriced and you'll lose a stop at the long end, but people who buy it seem to love it.

I passed on the 10-22 and went instead for the Tokina 11-16 2.8. It's interesting, but among the three wide angle zooms (Tokina, Sigma and Canon) most reviewers and real world  users acknowledge that all three are really high quality lenses. It's one of the few cases where the name-brand lens really doesn't have any advantage over the third party competitors. Just saying: don't be afraid to look at the Tokina and Sigma in this range. (I chose the Tokina for its 2.8 aperture. Just pick which one best suits your use and budget.)

Finally, if you are going with the 7D and you are in the U.S. be sure to check out the Canon Refurb store.
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UrbanImages

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2012, 05:43:37 PM »
As I shoot full frame, the 5D3 does interest me, but not right now. I will have one, but when it comes to "new and improved" tech, I tend to take a 6-9 month breather for bugs to be worked out/price and demand drop etc. I currently shoot with a 5D2, and I just picked up a 7D used with <150 actuations. That replaced a 60D which I found to be a glorified Rebel. I also have a mint condition 40D as the backup camera.

I tend to put more stock in the glass, that coupled with creativity can go a lot further than the "latest and greatest". That being said, the low light capabilities of the 5D3 is what is driving me. As far as the pixels are concerned, I feel that Canon is improving what they need to improve and not falling prey to the hunger for more pixels. IMHO, I suspect that Canon may be using the 5D3 as a test for all of the better components outside of MP's to perfect those before hitting a grand slam with a new high MP camera.  ;D

As far as the 7D, I am beyond happy with it thus far. I find that the photography that I do has a place for both FF and crop. The AF system is quick and the image quality is excellent. You will not be disappointed. While the sensors may be similar, the other components help round a winning camera.
5D III, 5D IIx2.... 24-70L, 70-200L II, 70-300L, 35-350L, 17-40L, 28-135, 50-1.4, 85-1.8, 40-2.8, 100-2.8 Macro, Sigma 15 Fisheye... 600 EX, 580 EX IIx3, 430 EX II and a bunch of other toys...

azizjhn

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 05:52:58 PM »
Same here i wish to upgrade my T2i to 7DII but i dont know when it will be release. The reasons is 8FPS since i shoot RC cars and normal cars drifting and wireless flash trigger because i dont like to attach any thing to the camera and the weather sealing.

5D MK III looks like the dream camera with nightmarish price, i hope they add the timelapse feature & in camera HDR to the 7DII every thing else is ok with me except low light performance sure it will be enhanced with Digic 5.

Good luck for every one ;D

KevinB

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2012, 06:09:19 PM »
I think you answer your own question "Maybe I'm just a cheapskate;" What you deem a value is your limitation and that go's for all of us. To say insufficient value is only correct for you. If you don't have one or shot with one then you are speaking with absolutely no knowledge therefore your statement has no value ( not to be rude ) just the facts. I do own one, I did own the 5d2 and the 5d3 out preforms it by large margins in many areas. Bottom line is what is the need.. This camera separates the needs from the wants..

Happy Shooting !! 

Jason Beiko

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2012, 06:44:11 PM »
My current gear is a 7D with 17-55, 10-22 and 70-200L 2.8 IS lenses all from Canon.  I was seriously considering upgrading to FF, but like you, just don't see the value in the upgrade to a 5D MarkIII despite the fact that it is, by all accounts, a great camera.  I mostly shoot landscape shots on a tripod at iso 100 so I'm not sure I'm going to see a major improvement. If Canon brings to market a new FF camera with improved DR and IQ  (perhaps a D800E equivalent), then I might switch. 

I'm in no rush only having picked up photography a year ago.  I still have lots to read and my current shots are limited more by my knowledge and experience versus equipment.  Peter Lik is still safe...at least for awhile :)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 07:19:51 PM by Jason Beiko »

bp

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2012, 06:54:05 PM »
The 3 is not for everyone.  Frankly, I've always advised people to invest heavily in glass before investing heavily in bodies. 

You'll LOVE the 7D's AF and framerate
5D3 - 5D2 - 7D - T2i   | 24L II | 35L | 85L II | 100L | 135L | 24-105L | 70-200 IS II | Shorty Forty | 50 1.4 | Bower 14 | Rokkor 58mm f/1.2 | 2x III

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2012, 06:54:05 PM »

tron

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2012, 07:13:52 PM »
What you say is reasonable. The only problem is you get a lot of APS-C equipment (another camera, lenses) If I were you I would dare to get 5DIII with 24-105 (after selling the T2i with 15-85)

I had a 40D. When it was stolen (unfortunately with many lenses) I got the 5DII with 24-105. So for me 5DIII is a lesser upgrade and I cannot justify it. But you reminded me that I can have the very good AF for distant shots by getting the 7D (or waiting for a 7DII)

Jettatore

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 07:30:08 PM »
I like your logic.  I think the 5D3 price is just high right now.  It will come down over time.  It has awesome physical and functional improvements over the 5D2 if the spec sheets have anything to say.  Autofocus, some ISO/sensor improvement, high FPS, weather sealing/build quality, built in peace of mind dual write functionality for pro's at a live event, and a mode lock dial that I wish it didn't have...  It seems a very great camera, and a very solid value to active professionals who profit from photography even if you already have a 5DII or a 1D series and are using it as a waiting room stool for the 1DX.  The features in this camera can make a pro's life easier/more profitable.  So some combination of super comfortable shoes/an investment that pays for itself by saving you even more time.

smithy

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2012, 08:17:02 PM »
I saw that again yesterday with the lightning speed of the 1V. Even using film, as soon as the shutter button is actuated, the shot is made.
That's one of the reasons why I still use the 1V.  It's an awesome, awesome camera.  :)

As for your lens choices, I do strongly recommend the 10-22mm if you are planning on keeping a crop body for a long time.  I augmented my lens collection with this piece last year, and couldn't believe I had survived without it for so long.  Although now that I'm about to go full frame (to what exactly, I don't know), I'm looking at getting a 17-40mm f/4.0L, which is an equivalent (and the same price as the 10-22mm).
5D Mark III, 40D, 1V.  Bunch of strobes, lenses and other bits.
They're, their, there, it's, its, too, to, than, then, you're, your.  One lens, two lenses, the lens's aperture.

solarpos

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2012, 08:27:45 PM »
solid plan

chrisdeckard

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 09:02:18 PM »
I have only had my 5DIII for a week, but I can tell you that it is by far a huge step above the 7D.  I've had a 7D for almost a year, and a 60D for over a year.  The 5DIII knocks both out of the park.  Low light capability on the 7D is atrocious.  Low light situations do not produce good results.  Many refer to the 7D as a great sports camera, and I'm sure it is during the daytime.  But if you are indoors, the best you can do is ISO 1600 with a lot of noise reduction in post.  You can't use super fast shutter speeds, even with faster f/2.8 lenses. 

So far, the 5DIII can focus in very dark situations where the 7D can't.  It can also give useable results at ISO 6400.  As I said in some other post, the 5DIII is certainly worth it to me.  Maybe it isn't to you, but you should know that it really is a great camera.  I suggest you rent one for a week and see what you think.
5D Mark III, 7D, 60D, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS, 24-70 f/2.8, 100 f/2.8 L Macro, 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8, 17-40 f/4 L, TS-E 45 f/2.8

stevenrrmanir

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2012, 09:17:30 PM »
I have been a Canon shooter for about 15 years.  Canon film, Rebel, now with the 40D since 2008. The upgrades coming from Canon have been incremental and minor. Nikon a few years ago went big time with upgraded bodies. I still don't see the value in upgrading from 40D to 7D. Sure the body is nicer, but not worth it. The 5D MKIII is a failure. The ones who bit and paid that much money for it have to justify and auto convince themselves that it is worth it. Not in my books. I will be selling my lenses, don't have any L glass, but a number of mid-of-the-road ones and primes. Will be getting rid of Canon because even their flagship 5D MKIII is a half-asses upgrade over the 5D MKIII at a very high price. Why can't they do things right and get us some nice bodies like Nikon does? We don't have another 100 years to wait around! I don't carry about brands, but quality and price!

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2012, 09:17:30 PM »

chrisdeckard

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 10:10:02 PM »
I have been a Canon shooter for about 15 years.  Canon film, Rebel, now with the 40D since 2008. The upgrades coming from Canon have been incremental and minor. Nikon a few years ago went big time with upgraded bodies. I still don't see the value in upgrading from 40D to 7D. Sure the body is nicer, but not worth it. The 5D MKIII is a failure. The ones who bit and paid that much money for it have to justify and auto convince themselves that it is worth it. Not in my books. I will be selling my lenses, don't have any L glass, but a number of mid-of-the-road ones and primes. Will be getting rid of Canon because even their flagship 5D MKIII is a half-asses upgrade over the 5D MKIII at a very high price. Why can't they do things right and get us some nice bodies like Nikon does? We don't have another 100 years to wait around! I don't carry about brands, but quality and price!

great - one less
Now, please sell all the gear you have in the past "claimed " 15 years cheap - very cheap
You are going to hurt Canon bottom line, and create a bunch on unhappy canon shooters, when they get the hands or the crappy L lenses you own(ed), and realize they are now, proud owners of crappy equipment and crappy cameras, who knows???..., maybe they will switch to Nikon, and keep coming here just to rant about nothing, just like you, because no one really pays attention to you in the Nikon forums. They will sell their crappy gear -  super cheap, just to upset Canon, and create more unhappy crappy canon owners, feeding an endless circle
Go ahead please



soooooo...., what crappy lenses are you selling below bottom price?

Exactly the response I was thinking.  Love how his first post is to complain about a camera that he doesn't even own.  I don't think anyone who has purchased a 5DIII has anything to justify.  They already justified it by purchasing it.
5D Mark III, 7D, 60D, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS, 24-70 f/2.8, 100 f/2.8 L Macro, 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8, 17-40 f/4 L, TS-E 45 f/2.8

smithy

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 10:32:23 PM »
You two jokers, NWPhil and stevenrrmanir, are pathetic!
Why are you calling yourself pathetic?
5D Mark III, 40D, 1V.  Bunch of strobes, lenses and other bits.
They're, their, there, it's, its, too, to, than, then, you're, your.  One lens, two lenses, the lens's aperture.

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Re: Sorry 5D3, Insufficient Value
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 10:32:23 PM »