November 18, 2017, 09:54:28 PM

Author Topic: Almost 10000 photos shoot with 5D Mk3 – Thoughts, Odds, Problems, Firmware Fixes  (Read 12988 times)

briansquibb

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I was going to buy a 5DIII as a replacement for my 1Ds3 - but I have now spent the money on a lens :D

Perhaps you can find an undocumented feature on the 5DIII that gives you manual mode plus exposure compensation then??

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Astro

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just a side note.
10000 pictures in two weeks that would be around 740GB with the D800 and around 280GB with the 5D MK3.. right?

RAW images of course.

do you delete a lot or are you one of the shooters who stores all images?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 04:37:34 AM by Astro »

VirtualRain

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Some of my own thoughts...

#1... Good idea... What happens when the counter gets to zero and there is still room left on the card?  Does it say card full or can you continue shooting until the card is actually full?  And just a note... The counter will report the lesser of the shots remaining on the CF or SD card... So beware of this if shooting different image types/sizes to the two different cards. It's not clear which card is the limiting one, so another suggestion is to put an indicator or offer a firmware option to select which card to monitor. 

#2. This option is  designed for shooting in AV mode in low light  - and is a welcome addition - just the way it is (but having more shutter speed choices wouldn't hurt). If you need strict enforcement of shutter speed you should be using Tv or Manual.  Also, attempting to set a shutter speed of approx. 1/focal is the default camera exposure programming in Av... We don't need a firmware option for it.

#3. Strange. I don't use wrap around, but I could see how this is annoying if you do.

#4. I don't find this to be an issue, but why not?  I only use the 41 cross points which helps reduce the number of joystick operations required to move the AF point from one side to the other.

#1 - I have the camera set on "Auto Switch Card' and the screen shows the shoots left on the current card. I don't have time to look at the counter when the things go wild but I think / it seems that there is no negative number - the counter "improves" itself when it gets close to the limit. Most probably the algorithm is CounterNo = FreeSpace / FixedFileSize. The problem is that the FixedFileSize constant is a.) way off and b.) is not a constant, it is a variable (the cr2 & jpegs have compression). That's why a much better estimation is something based on global average (ie. TotalSizeShoot/TotalFilesShoot - and this number to be kept for each resolution / ISO) or much better on a moving average (the above number calculated only on the last 50-100 files).

#2
- Hello brother!  ;D A typical programmer response. ("This is not a bug, it is a feature") Sorry, but I don't think that 'broken by design' is a solution. :) See, we don't want to enforce a certain FIXED shutter speed. If I have a zoom, let's say 70-200 F/2.8, I simply cannot use Tv to set the shutter speed to... what? 1/200?? It is way to high in ever-changing light conditions. Remember we're talking here about an event handheld camera not a studio one. Yes, I know, IS. But I cannot think to Image Stabilization as a kludge for firmware shortcomings.

Another usage case: I have an UWA on the camera - let's say Tokina 16-28 F/2.8. Where to set the FIXED shutter speed? Based on common knowledge (and my tests confirm that) the lens deliver ultra sharp images even at Tv 1/16 handheld. But I cannot set it there because my subjects (men) are moving and hence, if the light permits, I want to have the shutter speed raised automatically and when they'll go again in the dark to lower the speed.

I use the Av mode but there is the same problem: the "approx" gives the blur of the image. We don't want the "approx" because this can be sometimes very "approximative". We need (imho) 'equal-or-greater'. And mind you, I found this issue by looking at blurred photos, not by nitpicking EXIFs.

Also, even if Av it would work I think that P mode is superior because it tries to get out the camera/exposure from the "dangerous zones" (slow shutter speeds AND open apertures) leaving you to concentrate on what to shoot / composition etc.

Because of all the above reasons, I humbly think that we need a firmware fix for it. Especially because it seems that it is a simple fix (they should change the test from something like "nearest value" to "equal and bigger ( >= )" if an option is set).

#4
- Thanks to validating me, but in fact it seems that you responded here at #5 :D . The #4 is a very powerful feature which would provide multistage fallback exposure programs. Let me give you an example based on what I said above:

Reiterating the UWA case: In studio, the above lens (Tokina 16-28 F/2.8 ) deliver sharp images at 1/F and it has the best quality aperture @3.5-8. However in the battlefield, having a 1/16 speed usually produces blurry hands, legs etc. but even so you can catch a very expressive shot.

So, roughly speaking, I would have like this:

  • Camera main settings: Av mode with F/4 - Auto ISO 100 - 6400, Min Shutter Speed: 1/60 (this is the best-case scenario which will cover 75% from cases)
  • C1: P mode - Auto ISO 100 - 12800, Min Shutter Speed: 1/60 (here I still try to freeze the men)
  • C2: P mode - Auto ISO 100 - 12800, Min Shutter Speed: Auto (the worst-case scenario: catch what you can)

...and in Super Safety Shift I would have set "C1,C2" - so if the camera cannot obtain the correct exposure with the main settings then it will try the C1 and after that the C2.

I hope that is clearer now,

J. Th.

A few more thoughts...

I think you can do what you want and probably get great pictures if you take advantage of the features you've got. Between the safety shift feature thats there, the control over ISO and min shutter you have, and the programmable custom modes, there's not a situation you can't cover.  Don't be afraid to turn the mode dial once in a while :)

Speaking of mode dial... I'm surprised you shoot in P mode most of the time. Why?  While I'm in no position to judge, I would encourage you to take more control over your photography...  For example, I dont know a serious photographer that doesnt care about depth of field, and shooting almost exclusively in P mode says you dont care.  It's very unusual.   I can't imagine shooting anything but a test shot in P mode myself.  While the 5D is a capable point and shoot, you're not getting the most out of it in P mode and as you probably know, wishing for more/different automation is not necessarily the best path to better photos.
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John Thomas

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A few more thoughts...

I think you can do what you want and probably get great pictures if you take advantage of the features you've got. Between the safety shift feature thats there, the control over ISO and min shutter you have, and the programmable custom modes, there's not a situation you can't cover.  Don't be afraid to turn the mode dial once in a while :)

Sure. I can do it. But...
Everything boils down to the available time. Did you shoot a fast-paced changing-light event? For ex. a rock concert? circus? (some) sports? (some) parties / weddings? Some news event (a riot, strike, a personality)? etc.

I don't know others but I loose too many shots by trying to change/adjust the settings. It is the same problem with the one between Manual Focus and Auto Focus. Time. Having the Live View and the magnification there, the Manual Focus can be (and usually is) much more precise than the Auto Focus. And also, you can focus exactly where you want (no 61 AF points, no light limitations, no nothing). Also the mechanical (MF) lenses are usually optically superior to the AF ones (see Zeiss glass).

So, with these cameras, MF has plenty of advantages against AF. If you can afford it. If you have time.

Now, since the new Exmor sensor is regarded as superior, Canon must bet on better photos from a better camera, not from a better sensor. And the only thing which they can improve now effectively is the firmware. And it has also the greatest ROI.

Also, if you look at my examples is not only a shortcut for turning the dial. It is much more: Auto ISO range, Auto ISO Min shutter speed aso. Even if I have them in "My Menu" I must remember to change them and draw out my attention from the flow of events. And when I manage to change them perhaps they are already obsolete.

Quote
Speaking of mode dial... I'm surprised you shoot in P mode most of the time. Why?  While I'm in no position to judge, I would encourage you to take more control over your photography...  For example, I dont know a serious photographer that doesnt care about depth of field, and shooting almost exclusively in P mode says you dont care.  It's very unusual.   I can't imagine shooting anything but a test shot in P mode myself.  While the 5D is a capable point and shoot, you're not getting the most out of it in P mode and as you probably know, wishing for more/different automation is not necessarily the best path to better photos.

Thanks for your counsel. :-) Very well regarded. Also, I try to take control over the photo/ DOF / exposure, when I can. But I have the problem of ever-changing lighting conditions and the problem of time (see above). Otherwise other cameras (including D800 :D) could be a better alternative. Otherwise the new super-AF system isn't sustained by an on-par exposure engine. Just imho, of course.

my 0.02c & HTH,

John Th.
A small guy with a small Ascetic Experience (@ http://asceticexperience.com/ ).

John Thomas

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I was going to buy a 5DIII as a replacement for my 1Ds3 - but I have now spent the money on a lens :D

Perhaps you can find an undocumented feature on the 5DIII that gives you manual mode plus exposure compensation then??

...and if I found something what would you give me???  :P  :P  :P

There is one.  ;) ...sort of.

Of course is too bad that we don't have EC. Also, I think that this feature is also a must have for a firmware update.

However if you want EC in M mode just in order to protect your highlights, you can enable the Highlight Tone Priority feature. It does its job with noticeable results. Just checked by shooting two shoots of the same frame with half wall half open window (the camera sat on my desk). One with HTP enabled and one without. The exposure values (including the Auto ISO where the same) but the differences in the highlights are quite noticeable.

HTH
A small guy with a small Ascetic Experience (@ http://asceticexperience.com/ ).

John Thomas

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just a side note.
10000 pictures in two weeks that would be around 740GB with the D800 and around 280GB with the 5D MK3.. right?

RAW images of course.

do you delete a lot or are you one of the shooters who stores all images?

No, usually I do not delete. But don't take it as a dogma. The thing is that I must be very careful what I delete because my photos enough times happened to be valuable because of other factors besides the artistic / main subject. For example a rare architecture detail from a byzantine building which got demolished, a VIP which was preset somewhere where nobody else expected etc.

And the funny thing is that in enough cases neither I was aware of these things. After a while due of some circumstances etc. I discovered these things.

Hence, I delete sparingly photos because you never know what you delete. And also, the storage / GB today is so cheap that isn't worth the time to do it. But of course, if I have some big series of bad photos (IOW I'm effective in making space) I delete them. Imho, it needs discrimination.

HTH

jt.
A small guy with a small Ascetic Experience (@ http://asceticexperience.com/ ).

Astro

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a TB every month (with backup) is not exacty cheap..... but compared to the film day...  well yes.


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John Thomas

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a TB every month (with backup) is not exacty cheap..... but compared to the film day...  well yes.

To be sincere: I do not shoot with the same frequency all day/month/year long. It depends on event(s). Till 5DMk3 I had 2 disks (one for backup) x 2TB covering ~ 1.5 years.

HTH
A small guy with a small Ascetic Experience (@ http://asceticexperience.com/ ).

Drizzt321

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Hey JT, I just shot a concert in a smallish, dark venue, I know exactly what you mean about the AF system. I had my 5d2 along as my 2nd camera, and wow! The AF on the 5d3 (I kept it in zone, moved it around here and there) and it was almost always spot on with AI Servo, just a few missed due to focus. Plus, the noise is much nicer @6400+ than the 5d2 is @3200.

Although I did shoot fully manual (plus manual ISO), I'm not sure if I'd want to switch to Av or Tv mode or not. Problem being is that the shutter speeds will suddenly start to drag below 1/50 or 1/60 which is pretty slow for a show to begin with. As it was, I was mostly shooting at or barely smaller than max aperture. For me, I dialed in my general settings during the earlier acts, and then had some pretty good base settings during the main band, and just stayed decently aware of the stage lighting conditions and varied the shutter and/or ISO a bit to compensate for a time when there was more/less light. Maybe I should try and let the camera take a bit more control next time in Tv w/Auto ISO...
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briansquibb

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I'm not sure if I'd want to switch to Av or Tv mode or not. Problem being is that the shutter speeds will suddenly start to drag below 1/50 or 1/60 which is pretty slow for a show to begin with.

How does that work in Tv mode?

Just put it in Manual mode at, say, 1/60/f4.0 and auto iso and then there will no more adjustments needed

PhilDrinkwater

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Well, he could raise his max allowed auto ISO.

I wish Canon would let you set the min as high as 1/2000, then I could use Av for sports and be a lot more useful than simply 1/250 as the max. Instead, I've been using M mode with auto ISO for this condition, but you can't use EC in M mode with auto ISO.

I've sent both of these comments to my UK Canon rep... and also that the 1/f option needs to work differently.

briansquibb

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Instead, I've been using M mode with auto ISO for this condition, but you can't use EC in M mode with auto ISO.

There is a workaround giving the equivalent using AV mode - see it you can get this implemented on the 5DIII

Objective: Set set a minimum and maximum shutter speed. In Av mode if the shutter speed dropped below the mimimum then the ISO would be bumped up so that the minimum was reached again.

Method:

- enable safety shift (iso speed) C.Fn 1 - 8
- set shutter speed range C.fn 1 - 12 (  set the minimum shutter speed )

In the field:

- set the Av value
- set the base iso value (can be L so then it acts as auto iso)
- set exp comp as needed (yes we get exp comp and auto iso this way)

I have photographed karts so I set the minimum Tv to 1/500, Av at f/4 and iso100 which was about the critical point. ISO went up and down as expected, Tv went above 500 when the cloud lifted and ISO got to 100

So there you are - how to get ec with iso and Av limits set.

This applies to the Series 1 only


Drizzt321

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I'm not sure if I'd want to switch to Av or Tv mode or not. Problem being is that the shutter speeds will suddenly start to drag below 1/50 or 1/60 which is pretty slow for a show to begin with.

How does that work in Tv mode?

Just put it in Manual mode at, say, 1/60/f4.0 and auto iso and then there will no more adjustments needed

Well, true, just with Auto-ISO it'll quickly max out at the top of the ISO as much of the frame is dark, while the main subject(s) will still have decent lighting because of the placement of the lights, and will probably end up getting over exposed.
5D mark 2, 5D mark 3, EF 17-40mm f/4L,  EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 85mm f/1.8
Film Cameras: Mamiya RB67, RB-50, RB-180-C, RB-90-C, RB-50, Perkeo I folder, Mamiya Six Folder (Pre-WWII model)
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