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Author Topic: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]  (Read 29691 times)

LukeS

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2011, 04:59:41 PM »
If it is the same cost of the 17-55 then it is just way to expensive for a non-L lens.  I bought the 15-85 and that is over priced for what it is.  If this lens is priced at about the same price as the 15-85 I will be selling that and buying the 15-60.

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2011, 04:59:41 PM »

KyleSTL

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2011, 05:16:04 PM »
A 4x zoom at a fixed f2.8 would be record-setting if I have my facts straight:

1.45x = 11-16mm (tokina APS-C)
1.71x = 14-24mm (nikon)
1.75x = 16-35mm (tokina)
2.06x = 17-35mm
2.19x = 16-35mm
2.50x = 28-70mm, 80-200mm, 120-300mm (sigma), 200-500mm (sigma monster)
2.68x = 28-75mm (tamron)
2.77x = 90-250mm (olympus 4/3), 18-50mm (sigma)
2.85x = 70-200mm
2.92x = 24-70mm
2.94x = 17-50mm (tamron, sigma)
3.00x = 50-150mm (sigma APS-C)
3.13x = 16-50mm (tokina APS-C)
3.24x = 17-55mm
3.75x = 28-105mm (tamron adaptall MF)

In fact, I think it would be the second largest zoom range of any constant-aperture ever released (behind the 5x Nikkor 24-120mm f4).  Anyone know of another lens I'm forgetting?
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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2011, 05:51:04 PM »
I could be lusting after this lens. I love the 15-85mm. But, I would seriously consider sacrificing the longer range in exchange for the faster aperture.
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kubelik

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2011, 06:04:19 PM »
A 4x zoom at a fixed f2.8 would be record-setting if I have my facts straight:

1.45x = 11-16mm (tokina APS-C)
1.71x = 14-24mm (nikon)
1.75x = 16-35mm (tokina)
2.06x = 17-35mm
2.19x = 16-35mm
2.50x = 28-70mm, 80-200mm, 120-300mm (sigma), 200-500mm (sigma monster)
2.68x = 28-75mm (tamron)
2.77x = 90-250mm (olympus 4/3), 18-50mm (sigma)
2.85x = 70-200mm
2.92x = 24-70mm
2.94x = 17-50mm (tamron, sigma)
3.00x = 50-150mm (sigma APS-C)
3.13x = 16-50mm (tokina APS-C)
3.24x = 17-55mm
3.75x = 28-105mm (tamron adaptall MF)

In fact, I think it would be the second largest zoom range of any constant-aperture ever released (behind the 5x Nikkor 24-120mm f4).  Anyone know of another lens I'm forgetting?

sounds about right, and the 4x range also makes me a little dubious about whether or not this has any potential for becoming real.  at the same time, with the stuff that Canon's engineers have been cranking out lately, I'm sure if they do decide to go for a 4x f/2.8 zoom they would do a pretty amazing job of it

studio1972

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2011, 06:05:33 PM »
A 4x zoom at a fixed f2.8 would be record-setting if I have my facts straight:

1.45x = 11-16mm (tokina APS-C)
1.71x = 14-24mm (nikon)
1.75x = 16-35mm (tokina)
2.06x = 17-35mm
2.19x = 16-35mm
2.50x = 28-70mm, 80-200mm, 120-300mm (sigma), 200-500mm (sigma monster)
2.68x = 28-75mm (tamron)
2.77x = 90-250mm (olympus 4/3), 18-50mm (sigma)
2.85x = 70-200mm
2.92x = 24-70mm
2.94x = 17-50mm (tamron, sigma)
3.00x = 50-150mm (sigma APS-C)
3.13x = 16-50mm (tokina APS-C)
3.24x = 17-55mm
3.75x = 28-105mm (tamron adaptall MF)

In fact, I think it would be the second largest zoom range of any constant-aperture ever released (behind the 5x Nikkor 24-120mm f4).  Anyone know of another lens I'm forgetting?

It is easier to make an f/2.8 ef-s lens than an ef one of course. Also canon do a 24-105 which is a larger zoom range btw.
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KyleSTL

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2011, 06:49:54 PM »
It is easier to make an f/2.8 ef-s lens than an ef one of course. Also canon do a 24-105 which is a larger zoom range btw.
Oh duh, forgot that one, that comes out to 4.38x, so definitely longer, so this is likely the third longest constant aperture, and the longest f2.8.  Sensor size does make a huge difference, consider the Olympus f2.0 zoom for the 4/3rds system.  I'd like to see one of the big companies (Nikon or Canon) try a compact (read: point and shot for this crowd) with a 24-120mm equivalent f2.0 or 2.8 lens (constant).  It's definitely do-able, but likely not profitable, especially considering the engineering that would go into it.
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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2011, 03:04:33 AM »
The 15-85 is weaker than the 17-55 both in terms of optical quality (resolution, barrel distortions...) and build quality. So I don't understand why Canon believes such a lens would be a worthy replacement of the 17-55. If they don't make it as good as (or better than) the current 17-55, I can hardly imagine a 17-55 owner willing to "upgrade"(downgrade would be the better word actually)...
While the 17-55 does have less distortion on its wide end, the 15-85 isn't that much more and if you really hate distortion, you would still have to apply correction to both. The 18-55 has less distortion on the mid and long end though. Resolution wise there isn't much in it. Yes, the 17-55 has a slight advantage at equivalent focal lengths and apertures, but I think we need far more than the 18MP sensor to see if there is much of a difference. The increase zoom range would be welcome I feel, as 17mm just isn't that wide.

On other replies in this thread, while it would be the longest zoom constant f/2.8 lens made on SLR mount, do note lens zoom ranges and apertures have increased through the years. Don't expect to be limited to around 3x for f/2.8 forever.

Price wise, if it happens I'd expect it to be significantly more than the 17-55. For example, look at the 70-200 II compared to its predecessor.
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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2011, 03:04:33 AM »

traveller

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2011, 04:48:16 AM »
If this lens does ever get released, you can bet your life it will be 30% more expensive than the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8. 

The way that Canon will 'justify' this is by increasing prices across the board with each new lens; so the 24-70 f/2.8L replacement will gain at least 30% (the Nikkor 24-70 is already about 25% more and the Sony/CZ 24-70 is over 35% more expensive), a future 24-105L replacement will do the same.  This will maintain the relative price points of these lenses. 

Are Canon (and their competitors) justified in doing this? Well, there is inflation as well as R&D costs to cover and making all these super sharp lenses with multiple exotic elements is going to push up costs.  Perhaps it is us demanding more (MOAR) and then moaning when they ask us to pay for it, who are being unreasonable?

I baulked at the cost of the 17-55 f/2.8 until Sigma brought out their new 17-50 f/2.8; I realised that despite only having micro-USM it was not that much cheaper.  Clearly Canon is charging a premium for their brand name on a lens (over third-party offerings), but Sigma it seems, had to compromise on micro-USM to produce a lower cost lens than the Canon.  Maybe it is not possible to produce a 17-55mm  f/2.8 USM lens at significantly less than the current price; we should not expect a new lens to cost less. 

(P.S. I do not work for Canon or any of its subsidiaries!)

BennyJ

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2011, 05:07:24 AM »
While the 17-55 does have less distortion on its wide end, the 15-85 isn't that much more....  Resolution wise there isn't much in it.

I think there's significant difference between those two lenses and many reviews on the web come to the same conclusion. I dont care if Canon gives it a longer zoom and I also don't really need those 2 mm less focal length in the low end. It's nice, yeah, but you can always attach another lens anyway. I don't want quality to be compromised only to get some more zoom out of the lens.

Right now, we don't know what the product will look like and if it will be developed at all. But if its quality (either optical or build quality) falls short of that of the 17-55, I'm definitely not gonna buy it.

JLN

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2011, 07:11:49 AM »
Interesting, i've been expecting canon to release a new flagship ef-s lens for awhile, something starting with 15mm.

Until recently, the 17-55 was the hands down go-to  top end lens but the 15-85 has offered some competition. The aperture is of course slower but the 24mm equivalent width zoom is just attractive.

I'm dubious about the 15-60 range though, more realistic would be a 15-55 or even a 15-50, with a 4 stop IS.

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2011, 01:45:29 PM »
Right now, we don't know what the product will look like and if it will be developed at all. But if its quality (either optical or build quality) falls short of that of the 17-55, I'm definitely not gonna buy it.
Fair enough, we all have different wants and needs. My personal perspective is that a zoom should offer flexibility at "good enough" quality over going for a prime.

Even then we need to define what aspects and weighting we apply, such as but not limited to resolution (centre and border), at various apertures, at various focal lengths and even focus distances. Throw in considerations for vignetting, astigmatism, coma, bokeh characteristic and colour rendition. All in, "better" will be subjective.

If they make such a lens, increasing zoom range may impact some of those parameters. How it does so will be the question.

If this lens does ever get released, you can bet your life it will be 30% more expensive than the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8.
You can see it like bodies too. The new version will always come in at a high price. Over its life it might creep down slowly until it seems a bargain, when they replace it with another expensive one. Canon are not alone in this...
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anthony11

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2011, 02:45:22 PM »
Given Canon's obsession for pixel count over sensitivity, the potential stop gained by f/2.8 compared to f/4 zooms would seem to be countered by the extra ISO step needed for the same noise level compared to a FF unit.

As for EF prime updates, I suspect that we will never see these -- Canon hasn't updated any in years, and they clearly view primes as a "pro" L-class segment now, with zooms for consumers.

AJ

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2011, 11:35:42 AM »
One thing about the current 17-55/2.8 IS is that it's not particularly wide.  Although I haven't measured the field-of-view, it feels more like an 18-55.  My Tamron 17-50/2.8 goes noticeably wider.

I wonder if a new 15-50 would have a true 28 mm equivalent.  I have my doubts about 24 mm

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2011, 11:35:42 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2011, 09:09:19 AM »
Given Canon's obsession for pixel count over sensitivity, the potential stop gained by f/2.8 compared to f/4 zooms would seem to be countered by the extra ISO step needed for the same noise level compared to a FF unit.

Exactly.  Few people get this - especially those who make statements like, "I'm not upgrading to FF until they make a FF equivalent of the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS," in reference to the magical unicorn also known as a 24-70mm f/2.8L IS.  In fact, the 24-105mm f/4L IS when used on FF specs out better than the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS on a crop body.  The FF-equivalent of the latter is 27-88mm f/4.5 IS, meaning the 24-105mm is wider, longer, and faster.  It's true that f/2.8 still yields a faster shutter speed than f/4, since the crop factor doesn't affect exposure (apparent effect is on DoF only), but as you point out - FF has a 1.3-stop advantage in ISO noise, meaning you can bump the shutter speed up a stop by using a higher ISO on FF to match the shutter speed you'd get with f/2.8 on a crop body.
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Wahoowa

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2011, 01:07:45 PM »
Given Canon's obsession for pixel count over sensitivity, the potential stop gained by f/2.8 compared to f/4 zooms would seem to be countered by the extra ISO step needed for the same noise level compared to a FF unit.

Exactly.  Few people get this - especially those who make statements like, "I'm not upgrading to FF until they make a FF equivalent of the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS," in reference to the magical unicorn also known as a 24-70mm f/2.8L IS.  In fact, the 24-105mm f/4L IS when used on FF specs out better than the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS on a crop body.  The FF-equivalent of the latter is 27-88mm f/4.5 IS, meaning the 24-105mm is wider, longer, and faster.  It's true that f/2.8 still yields a faster shutter speed than f/4, since the crop factor doesn't affect exposure (apparent effect is on DoF only), but as you point out - FF has a 1.3-stop advantage in ISO noise, meaning you can bump the shutter speed up a stop by using a higher ISO on FF to match the shutter speed you'd get with f/2.8 on a crop body.

Agreed.

Not on that, you have to shoot at a faster shutter speed (losing another 2/3 stops) to ensure stability in low light. (I can do 1/15 sec with a 24mm lens on FF in low light to get "acceptable" images. But I have to do at least 1/25 sec on my 7D.)

Still, I'm still holding on to my 7D and I will wait until the replacement of 5DII comes out. Hopefully, it will have similar features as the 7D.

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Re: EF-S 15-60 f/2.8 IS [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2011, 01:07:45 PM »