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Author Topic: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!  (Read 13789 times)

Robert Welch

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2012, 12:27:24 PM »
At least Canon does offer to do something if it is a problem for those few photographers who insist on shooting in very dark situations with the LCD light lit and find it affects their photos.

I know a lot of Nikon D700 users who just have to bite the bullet on annual $300+ hotshoe repairs because Nikon insists it's not a defect and refuses to fix what is obviously a design flaw in that camera unless the owner pays the repair fees. Not to bash Nikon here, they generally have an excellent product as does Canon, but the point is just that a company can handle a situation in different ways, and I think in comparing these Canon has done a better job of addressing the problem with the 5DmkIII, even if you want to find fault in the problem existing to begin with. Canon has had their fiasco too, mainly with the 1DmkIII autofocus, but they did at least try to fix that, even if it was with mixed success. Nikon won't even admit there is a problem with the D700 hotshoe.

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2012, 12:27:24 PM »

edawg

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2012, 12:36:39 PM »
Why would anyone take a pic with the top lcd ON anyways? What are you even looking at?? The only time Ive ever even used it was for star trails in which case it was only to set manual exposure. This is about the only situation where I'd imagine it could possibly be an issue, near total darkness. In which case you'd be kidding yourself to think you're gonna shoot it in one of the auto modes - especially with the LCD ON (wtf.)


llcanon

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2012, 12:48:11 PM »
Some people are missing points here.

The fact is the light WILL leak through the LCD panel. Period.

Putting the lens cap or body cap on is just the easiest way to detect this leak. Apparently Canon USA is much smarter than Canon UK or Canon Japan by not listing the two "cap on" scenarios as examples for "extremely dark environments".

Whether it affects your captured image or not depends on the ratio of the light leaking through the LCD panel to the light through the lens and viewfinder.

Under "almost all shooting conditions", the light leaking through the LCD panel should be much smaller compared to the other two light sources (lens and VF), thus might not have "noticeable" effect (quite a subjective term anyway). Under some dark shooting conditions, as demonstrated in the screen capture above, the light leak could be significant enough to affect the exposure. But I don’t understand why you would press the shutter button when the LCD light is on. Just wait a couple of seconds and you should be fine.

Again, it is a real issue. It's your personal choice how to look at it and act. It's like everything in life, not just a camera. Using sarcastic language or laughing at other people who think differently is really not necessary. Be an educated grown-up please.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2012, 01:33:52 PM »
Some people are missing points here.

The fact is the light WILL leak through the LCD panel. Period.

Whether it affects your captured image or not depends on the ratio of the light leaking through the LCD panel to the light through the lens and viewfinder.

Just to be clear, the light leaking through the top LCD panel will not directly affect the image.  It's irrelevant how much light leaks in or what the ratio is - there is no direct effect, since the leaked light does not ever reach the imaging sensor. 

The light leak affects the metering sensor only - that means the image is only indirectly affected, based on an incorrect meter reading. 
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llcanon

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #94 on: April 25, 2012, 01:55:32 PM »
Some people are missing points here.

The fact is the light WILL leak through the LCD panel. Period.

Whether it affects your captured image or not depends on the ratio of the light leaking through the LCD panel to the light through the lens and viewfinder.

Just to be clear, the light leaking through the top LCD panel will not directly affect the image.  It's irrelevant how much light leaks in or what the ratio is - there is no direct effect, since the leaked light does not ever reach the imaging sensor. 

The light leak affects the metering sensor only - that means the image is only indirectly affected, based on an incorrect meter reading.

Thanks for the clarification. The imaging sensor should only receive the light through the lens, hopefully.

sawsedge

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #95 on: April 25, 2012, 02:06:03 PM »
As a veteran of years of software quality assurance, I would not likely have thought to test this.  I guess the folks at Canon didn't either.   And it is hard to detect, apparently.   If I'm shooting at night, I generally have the camera on a tripod.  That means I'm not touching the camera, and I don't use the LCD light during the exposure.   

In QA work, we frequently rate a "bug" in two ways... the severity of the issue, and the likelihood that a user will spot the mistake.  The light that gets through during the day is far far less than what comes in via the lens.   While it is is a mistake, the severity is quite low.  Low enough that Canon won't recall the bodies affected. 

We know about it thanks to the internet.  But, how many of you would ever have found this issue without the 'net? 

itsnotmeyouknow

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2012, 02:08:02 PM »
If I'm doing a long exposure then my camera will be on a tripod. If the shot needs an exposure of 1 min or more then metering won't be being used in Amy case. Plus what's wrong with using the playback screen instead of the LCD screen?  There are many ways around this "fault".

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2012, 02:08:02 PM »

Hesham

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #97 on: April 25, 2012, 02:55:53 PM »
I have yet to see an image where this supposed issue affected it, have you?

Plenty of videos on YouTube showing the problem when shooting at night, and auto-metering with the LCD backlight on...



Maybe you don't do a lot of night shooting - but the problem is certainly very real.  Canon wouldn't offer a fix if it wasn't.

This video makes it crystal clear that the “it’s-only-with-the-lens-cap-on” crowd is full of sh**.

....And yet, they keep repeating the same line, as if saying it more and more will make it true.

Actually, no need for any videos to proof that there is a serious issue. The fact that Canon reacted by holding all stock, issuing the first statement, then the second where they list affected bodies, then offering a FIX,.. I am tired already,.... still all this is not enough for some who still invade those threads with their stupid statement, which they think is funny; "I don't take photos with the cap on" they just drive me nuts!!!

rafaelsynths

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #98 on: April 25, 2012, 03:21:25 PM »
I still think canon should drop the price of the 5D mark iii.

fstop

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #99 on: April 25, 2012, 03:21:46 PM »
Mine is being sent back without a doubt.  I spent $4300 with the lens and I don't want a camera that has a problem. I'm not happy with how Canon is handling it either.  I love the camera but I am not going to be stuck with a camera that has a known problem. In addition if I kept it I would have trouble selling it because it does have a problem and  its resale value will be diminished because no one wants a defective camera. I'll miss my new camera, but I would rather keep shooting with my old camera then have a defective new camera.

h4ldol

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #100 on: April 25, 2012, 03:25:31 PM »
Again, it is a real issue. It's your personal choice how to look at it and act. It's like everything in life, not just a camera. Using sarcastic language or laughing at other people who think differently is really not necessary. Be an educated grown-up please.

Geez, aren't you the one who stated that you tested the 'issue' on your two 5D3s and found 'Neither of them showed any “noticeable” effect.'?  How is that a "real issue" exactly?  And deriding your self righteous return of two 5D3s for an issue that has not had any "noticeable effect" is exactly appropriate, because you contribute to a problem that everyone suffers from as a result.  And it a laughable behavior since you apparently did this out of some sort of misguided loyal consumer indignation.

briansquibb

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #101 on: April 25, 2012, 03:36:49 PM »

Actually, no need for any videos to proof that there is a serious issue. The fact that Canon reacted by holding all stock, issuing the first statement, then the second where they list affected bodies, then offering a FIX,.. I am tired already,.... still all this is not enough for some who still invade those threads with their stupid statement, which they think is funny; "I don't take photos with the cap on" they just drive me nuts!!!

That is almost as funny as those that keep repeating that this is a serious issue. Best practice would suggest keeping the LCD off when shooting at night - most use liveview for setting up and focussing via a tripod in which case the settings are on the back screen and therefore there would not be an issue.

Positron

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #102 on: April 25, 2012, 03:52:57 PM »
I really don't want to get involved with this thread, but after reading through the entire thing there's something I simply fail to understand and I wish someone would enlighten me. The camera only uses metering data to select exposure parameters when it's not in manual mode. If it's not in manual mode you're relying on it to determine the exposure (it's metering). If you're relying on it to determine the exposure, why are you checking the top screen at all?

Let's say you do check the top screen and it's metering 4s at f/4 (as per the excellent post a page or so ago), and you think "well that's not right, in this darkness the exposure definitely needs 5s if it's at f/4, so I'm going to dial in +1/3 exposure compensation", then why aren't you shooting in manual in the first place?

I'm not trying to be cynical at all here, I'm seriously confused. Please enlighten me.

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #102 on: April 25, 2012, 03:52:57 PM »

bkorcel

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #103 on: April 25, 2012, 03:58:34 PM »
Just to put this all into perspective, I have one with a serial "1" and have not experienced ANY issues with the camera at all, even with firmware 1.0.7.  I upgraded the firmware anyway maybe to prevent something from happening during a critical shoot. 

I have not specifically checked for the light leak issue but I have shot in both bright sun, shade, combinations.  I've taken low light shots, shots of star clusters, and shots by candle light.  The reality is that I dont see the issue, or any of the reported issues, on my 5DIII.

So for those having issues, you should return your camera if you are not happy.  For those thinking about buying one, you should just do it and buy from a reputable dealer with a good return policy so you can evaluate it yourself.  I dont see the camera as "defective", not yet anyway and while all of this bickering is going on, I will be out there taking better pictures than those with a lesser model. ;)

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #104 on: April 25, 2012, 05:48:44 PM »
I ran an extensive test just now. I have concluded that this is a major issue as you can see:

First shot, LCD light OFF. Exposure time 5sec @ f4, 800 ISO:


Second shot, LCD light ON. The camera incorrectly metered the scene, underexposing dramatically with a metered value of only 4sec @ f4, 800 ISO:


Too Funny!

I nearly pissed my self laughing! I can gurantee that a lot of people will lean in to the screen and REALLY look  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

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Re: Canon, STOP shipping defective products!!!
« Reply #104 on: April 25, 2012, 05:48:44 PM »