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Author Topic: 1d X field test  (Read 12086 times)

JR

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2012, 01:24:18 PM »
I have a 1DX pre-ordered, but have really been leaning more towards a 5DIII lately. I have been questioning whether the IQ will seem like a downgrade from the 5DII i just sold, as i want a replacement for both my now sold 5DII and 7D. I think the reviews are getting better and better about the 5DIII now that it has been out for a little while, but i still feel there is alot of gray area about the 1DX and what exactly keeps pushing the release date back. Decisions, decisions....

Me too!  Actually i am renting a D800 next week and will be able to take lots of picture and compare them to the mkiii raw file i still have on my computer.  I just need to satisfy my curiousity about this D800 versus mkiii thing.  Before paying for the 1dx, i just need to see for myself ...
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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2012, 01:24:18 PM »

jlev23

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 02:01:35 PM »
Looking at the 100% crops... Do you guys think those would 'sharpen up nicely'?  It leave me wondering...

Edit:  It may even be the JPEG files causing the softness much like the 5diii JPEGs were a little off at first..

I only shot raw with the mkiii and it was still soft.
i guess it all depends what you are shooting and how you are shooting it.
i work mostly in manual focus and i just did a visual effects shoot, on stills, for elements.
the camera was locked off, on a tripod, manual focus, 640 iso, f4 on the 24-105.
the vfx supervisor and compositor both said i delivered the sharpest still elements he has ever had to deal with in post.
so, when i hear people talking about soft images in their stills, i have to think its either human error or your auto focus is not doing exactly what you want.  my thought is always that the camera is not a mind reader, it doesnt know the exact point you are trying to focus with, especially if you are using 61-point and servo mode.
i understand that if you are shooting high action you need auto focus for stills, but just think about that if there is any motion from the element or the camera then the softness will vary depending on many many variables, especially very slight motion blur, even if youre shooting at 1/1000th.
anyway, just letting some people in on the fact im getting very sharp results, mostly from decades of experience in knowing what has to be done differently in every shot or situation you are in.
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jlev23

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 02:08:25 PM »
I have a 1DX pre-ordered, but have really been leaning more towards a 5DIII lately. I have been questioning whether the IQ will seem like a downgrade from the 5DII i just sold, as i want a replacement for both my now sold 5DII and 7D. I think the reviews are getting better and better about the 5DIII now that it has been out for a little while, but i still feel there is alot of gray area about the 1DX and what exactly keeps pushing the release date back. Decisions, decisions....

Me too!  Actually i am renting a D800 next week and will be able to take lots of picture and compare them to the mkiii raw file i still have on my computer.  I just need to satisfy my curiousity about this D800 versus mkiii thing.  Before paying for the 1dx, i just need to see for myself ...
just to let you know, i was shooting a commercial on a lit stage with the epic, but i brought my 5Dmk3 to do some tests, there happen to be a stills guy doing behind the scenes photos with a d800, so at lunch we put them to the test.
so, two things; honestly, no one could tell the difference btwn the pictures, we brought them up on true waveform monitors and probably the most expensive monitors that youd ever view anything on...we took a poll, no one could tell the difference of the final results. neither could i.
though there was one thing that did occur that was huge for me, when shooting the tests, we had to slow down the nikons shutter to 1/200th to get the exact same stop as the 5Dmk3 at a shutter speed of 1/500th.
but again the final result was indistinguishable.
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nightbreath

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2012, 02:28:15 PM »
This is so odd because we hear so much about some kind of softness in the mkiii image, which by the way i did experienced personally with my unit of the 5d mkiii i tried, and now we see lots of 1dx picture on the web with some kind of softness too.  Wondering if they changed something to their AA filter design that could cause this or maybe it is something else.   ???

It seems to me that it's a user focusing issue for both 5D Mark III and 1D X. I had similar issue with 7D until figured out the difference between my 400D and 7D focusing peculiarities.
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Aaron78

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2012, 02:30:37 PM »
I saw a great youtube video that was shot in three parts by a canadian camera retailer. The first video compared the 5DIII to the D800 in studio shooting and low (as in ridiculously low) light, the second video was comparing them in low light action shooting (rodeo type event), and i didn't watch the third comparison because it was comparing video capability which i don't use. Anyway, it boiled down to both camereas having an advantage over the other in certain scenarios but no clear cut winner. At the end of both of the videos, the guys in it both agreed that a complete brand change would be foolish, as the real world resluts were too close to justify. Bottom line is, nikon shooters have a great camera in the D800, and canon shooters also have a great camera in the 5DIII.

JR

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2012, 02:59:48 PM »
This is so odd because we hear so much about some kind of softness in the mkiii image, which by the way i did experienced personally with my unit of the 5d mkiii i tried, and now we see lots of 1dx picture on the web with some kind of softness too.  Wondering if they changed something to their AA filter design that could cause this or maybe it is something else.   ???

It seems to me that it's a user focusing issue for both 5D Mark III and 1D X. I had similar issue with 7D until figured out the difference between my 400D and 7D focusing peculiarities.

Lets hope so.  This guy did say he had the camera for just two days with no manual (well he did download the AF manual) so he could have many some AF error for sure...
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Viggo

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2012, 03:17:18 PM »
This is so odd because we hear so much about some kind of softness in the mkiii image, which by the way i did experienced personally with my unit of the 5d mkiii i tried, and now we see lots of 1dx picture on the web with some kind of softness too.  Wondering if they changed something to their AA filter design that could cause this or maybe it is something else.   ???

It seems to me that it's a user focusing issue for both 5D Mark III and 1D X. I had similar issue with 7D until figured out the difference between my 400D and 7D focusing peculiarities.

Lets hope so.  This guy did say he had the camera for just two days with no manual (well he did download the AF manual) so he could have many some AF error for sure...

I'm sorry but AF-configuration have nothing to do with blurry images of a still sitting car and photographer. Whilse the AF-system is complex for it to cover all situation, you would have to be completely braindead not to get sharp imges of that car. And if afma wasn't done, he could easily have done it with LV. That sharpenss you see there is done with the AF system taken out of the equation.

I know how to handle the AF-system of the 5d3 as I'm used to the 1d4, and still, it isn't THAT hard to figure out, and it's CLEARLY visible when you're doing something wrong.

I still have to sharpen my 5d3 files a bit harder than the 5d2. And it is annoying.
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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2012, 03:17:18 PM »

Shawn L

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2012, 03:35:46 PM »
I've read that a lens can be tack sharp on one body and a bit soft on another due to the cumulative effect of all of the slight differences in manufacturing inherent to complex pieces of hardware (1/2 mm here, 0.1 degree off there, etc).

So I'm wondering if micro-adjusting the lens to the body would have helped him with softness. Again, he had 48 hours and no manual, so it's not likely he took this step.

Shawn L.

Viggo

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2012, 04:22:33 PM »
I've read that a lens can be tack sharp on one body and a bit soft on another due to the cumulative effect of all of the slight differences in manufacturing inherent to complex pieces of hardware (1/2 mm here, 0.1 degree off there, etc).

So I'm wondering if micro-adjusting the lens to the body would have helped him with softness. Again, he had 48 hours and no manual, so it's not likely he took this step.

Shawn L.

I don't know any photographer who has access to this kind of gear that can't adjust a lens on the fly, I mean, I have no problem doing that.

1. Shoot with LV
2. shoot using "normal" AF.

Are they simillar or is the LV sharper? if it is, aim a the bottom of pole standing on the ground (like a street sign) shoot wide open and see if it hits or not, adjust accordingly. Done. Takes you 4 minutes.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 04:26:19 PM by Viggo »
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JR

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2012, 08:38:06 PM »
What i would really like to. Now is if this softness comes from the firmware or hardware.  I dont doubt the new sensor from canon ios better then the old one in the mkii, but maybe they messed up something with the firmware, and maybe the same thing is happening to initial file from the 1dx...i sure hope it is fixable.  There are too many of us reporting softness with the mkiii.  I get that there are user error yes, but not all of these would be related to user error. 

Anyway, crossing my finger for when the 1dx actually do start shipping.
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AG

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2012, 08:46:04 PM »
The softness comes from a combination of factors.
The moire and AA filters that were applied to the sensors and the fact that the 5D3 and 1Dx both have their sharpness turned right down to counter these issues too.

Philip Bloom mentioned something about it on twitter a few weeks ago.

Take one of your RAW 5D3 images and boost up the sharpness and see the difference.
On average most of the people that buy these cameras won't notice the issue because they either are not looking for it or can correct it in post.

Its either that or have to deal with a really bad AA and Moire effect on your pictures.

Test it and see.
Yes, i shoot video on a DSLR.

JR

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2012, 10:16:16 PM »
The softness comes from a combination of factors.
The moire and AA filters that were applied to the sensors and the fact that the 5D3 and 1Dx both have their sharpness turned right down to counter these issues too.

Philip Bloom mentioned something about it on twitter a few weeks ago.


Did not know that is was a known fact.  So they really turned the sharpness way down...what does this mean exactly?  I just need Apply more sharpening to each file instead?   Are you referring to in camera sharpness?  Wuldn't this only impact jpeg file and not raw?
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spinworkxroy

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2012, 10:20:16 PM »
Personally, i find the biggest selling points of the 1DX over the 5D3 are
1) the 12fps
2) AF speed

More specifically sports photography. Putting IQ and ISO stuff aside, when it matters for speed the 1DX delivers.
I played with one for only about 15mins but i only wanted to compare it's speed vs my 5D3 and like the reviewer said, the 1DX is even faster than the 1D4 and many people already know the 1D4 is faster than the 5D3…so you can imagine my surprise when i took my first shots with the 1DX…
That thing locks onto a target the moment you press the shutter..doesn't matter what subject you focus on, it locks on immediately. We all know the "lag" the 5D3 has and that is irritating to me especially when the subject is moving but i'm not using AI Focus…the 1DX has no such issues, the tracking is also super fast..locks on and keeps locked one.

The 12 FPS? It's FAST…i was more into the sound of the shutter going off than anything else really…but i can see how sports photographers will love this camera…it does what it does and it does it better than anything i've ever laid my hands on…it's a good thing it's 2x the price of my 5D3, if not, i would feel my 5D3 wasn't up to scratch :)

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2012, 10:20:16 PM »

peederj

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2012, 10:42:28 PM »
The Philip Bloom comments only pertained to video. And while useful as a news source, he is not an authority on cameras technically anyway (nor am I for that matter, but I am not cited as one).

There is apparently a hysteria about OLPF and anti-aliasing, probably due to the announcement of the D800E making everyone wonder about these things. I doubt the new generation of cameras is less sharp than the old, even on a per-pixel level, from a hardware standpoint. Probably much the contrary.

But we do know they have had a lot of trouble with the RAW conversion and the firmware...and all signs point to these cameras being sent out earlier than they were ready because of the Olympics and the D800/D4. I should think they will fix up the soft/firmware shortly enough and make the cameras work much better than their earlier generation counterparts. These are the early days for these bodies.

spinworkxroy

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2012, 11:21:50 PM »
The Philip Bloom comments only pertained to video. And while useful as a news source, he is not an authority on cameras technically anyway (nor am I for that matter, but I am not cited as one).

There is apparently a hysteria about OLPF and anti-aliasing, probably due to the announcement of the D800E making everyone wonder about these things. I doubt the new generation of cameras is less sharp than the old, even on a per-pixel level, from a hardware standpoint. Probably much the contrary.

But we do know they have had a lot of trouble with the RAW conversion and the firmware...and all signs point to these cameras being sent out earlier than they were ready because of the Olympics and the D800/D4. I should think they will fix up the soft/firmware shortly enough and make the cameras work much better than their earlier generation counterparts. These are the early days for these bodies.

I agree..the 1DX was made mainly for the Olympics i believe..and there's still time to fine tune it but they better get it right before the Olympics…
The 5D3 on the other hand i believe was released because of the pressure of the D800 and i must admit, it doesn't feel like the finished product in terms of features and firmware…but knowing Canon and the 5D2 history, they will release tons more firmwares in due time with more features…I don't think we'll see many 5D3 at the olympics..most of those photographers use the best of the best, so all 1DX and D4…Actually, i don't see a D4 as a 1DX competitor really…it's nothing special thus far from all the reviews i'm reading about it..it's a great camera yes but it doesn't improve much over the D3s.

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Re: 1d X field test
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2012, 11:21:50 PM »