November 23, 2014, 01:43:15 PM

Author Topic: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...  (Read 35221 times)

Northstar

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1503
    • View Profile
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2012, 11:10:13 AM »
dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective. 

Here are mine... I'm feeling pretty good about the AF now, but in my first couple shoots trying different AF settings I, like you, was a little disappointed.  But after spending some time playing around with AF settings I've come to a point where I think the AF is great...maybe not excellent, but great.

I've added a couple shots where the AF was challenged...I shot both of these images w/ the 70-200 ii with 2xiii (which obviously slows down AF speed)
the ducks were really flying fast as they were flying downwind
the trumpeter swans were moving quickly and a bit erratic (they were fighting)

both groups of birds were about 150 feet away - I think the autofocus nailed these shots

both shots - HANDHELD
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 03:25:19 PM by Northstar »
Sport Shooter

1dX and 5d3... 24-70 2.8ii, 70-200 2.8ii, 1.4xiii and 2xiii, 85, 40mm, 300 2.8L IS....430ex

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2012, 11:10:13 AM »

pdirestajr

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 768
    • View Profile
    • flickr
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2012, 11:20:26 AM »
What was the ISO, shutter speed & aperture of the OP's posted photo? To me, it just looks like a low light/ high ISO pic at a wide aperture... Where is the problem?

Add some sharpening in post. If it isn't sufficient, use a flash. There are limits.

I think it's crazy that people use these cameras to shoot in places that film could have never gone without flash, at crazy high ISO's, and expect low noise and super sharp photos!
7D | 5DII | EOS-3 | Nikon F3 | Mamiya 645 Pro-TL

Ricku

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 494
    • View Profile
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2012, 11:22:47 AM »
My only gripe with the 5D3 is the lousy sensor improvement over the 5D2, and that it gets completely blown out of the water by the D800, when it comes to dynamic range.

Heres to hoping for a swift release of the 5D4.

EYEONE

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 623
    • View Profile
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2012, 11:33:54 AM »

If you're not here to help, how about you just scoot along little fella.

In all honesty, you haven't been very receptive to the help people have provided. You just seem to want to complain.

The first thing I do when I get a new lens is check the focus. Luckily none that I own have need any adjustment but several rented lenses have. It's just good to check. Esp if you are a wide open shooter.

I am making no assumptions or insults on your intelligence at all but the new 61 point system is quite different and perhaps more study is required. It's very similar to the 7D's system and it took me some time to fiddle with it and then finally decide one which mode was best for me. I had a lot of failures as a result.

But I just have a 7D so what do I know...  ::)
Canon 5D Mark III w/BG-E11, Canon 7D w/BG-E7: EF 24-70mm f.2.8L, EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS II, EF 40mm f2.8 Pancake STM, Speedlite 430EXII + 430EXI, Canon EOS 3

nitsujwalker

  • Guest
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2012, 11:36:27 AM »
My only gripe with the 5D3 is the lousy sensor improvement over the 5D2, and that it gets completely blown out of the water by the D800, when it comes to dynamic range.

Heres to hoping for a swift release of the 5D4.

Lousy sensor improvement?  From what I can tell, many people are extremely happy with the improvement in the way the sensor handles noise.  More megapixels does not necessarily equate to sensor improvement.  Now in DR, at least according to DXO, dynamic range was not improved... But lets not get off track from the OP's topic 

Tracy Pinto

  • Guest
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2012, 11:39:34 AM »
The AF is terrific and the image quality is outstanding (color accuracy and detail especially). I'm not sure what OP needs to adjust but several posts seem to offer good approaches at getting the most of the really fine camera. I'm still learning to use it but the initial feedback images certainly makes me want to fully master all its features and understand the engineering design. Like all tools it requires time and practice to properly utilize it.

bvukich

  • Spam Assassin
  • Administrator
  • 5D Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 735
    • View Profile
    • My (sparse) ZenFolio Site
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2012, 11:44:23 AM »
Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases.

Like when the lens doesn't nail focus?

Also, at f/13 you are beyond the diffraction limit of the sensor.  You will get better results at f/11 but still may soften fine details, f/8 will probably be the sweet spot.

You missed the point. I shot at f/13 for the portrait of myself above. Because of the deep DOF, the shot was very much "in focus". Shooting your self with a timer requires that you you have deep DOF.

What I was saying is that when I have shallow DOF that I was finding the 5D Mark III to not nail focus and images were coming out a little on the soft side (usually for events or concerts with limited lighting conditions I'm at about 2.8 to 4.0). Another separate example image also above.

I probably should have clarified...  The first part was in reference to your initial post, and the fact you will need AFMA to nail focus on your thin DoF shots.  The second part, was just a note on your self portrait; you will get sharper results (especially on fine details) if you don't stop down quite so much, and you should still have plenty of DoF to pull off that shot at f/8 or f/11.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2012, 11:44:23 AM »

Maui5150

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 455
    • View Profile
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2012, 11:45:39 AM »
I always have to laugh at how often people with "soft pictures" who blame the AF are the same ones who don't AFMA their lenses. 

Ricku

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 494
    • View Profile
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2012, 11:50:39 AM »
Lousy sensor improvement?  From what I can tell, many people are extremely happy with the improvement in the way the sensor handles noise.  More megapixels does not necessarily equate to sensor improvement.  Now in DR, at least according to DXO, dynamic range was not improved... But lets not get off track from the OP's topic
The happy ones are happy because of improved high ISO noise. (improvement noticeable above ISO 3200.)

For the ones of us who rarely go over ISO 400, there is zero improvement.

But yes, lets not get off track here.

DarkKnightNine

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 171
  • The best camera is the one that's with you.
    • View Profile
    • Marven Payne Creative Visuals
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2012, 11:53:55 AM »
dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective. 

Here are mine... I'm feeling pretty good about the AF now, but in my first couple shoots trying different AF settings I, like you, was a little disappointed.  But after spending some time playing around with AF settings I've come to a point where I think the AF is great...maybe not excellent, but great.

I've added a couple shots where the AF was challenged...I shot both of these images w/ the 70-200 ii with 2xiii (which obviously slows down AF speed)
the ducks were really flying fast as they were flying downwind
the trumpeter swans were moving quickly and a bit erratic (they were fighting)

both groups of birds were about 150 feet away - I think the autofocus nailed these shots

Really nice shots! Could you please share what your AF settings were e.g. Case 1 through 5 in the AF menu and if you did any further adjustments after selecting a Case.
Thanks.
Canon 1DX, Canon 5D Mark III, EF 85mm F1.2L II USM, EF 100mm F2.8L IS USM Macro, EF 16-35mm F2.8L II USM, EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM, EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM, 600EX-RT Speedlites, Profoto Studio Strobes, and a whole lot of boat load of light modifiers.

DarkKnightNine

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 171
  • The best camera is the one that's with you.
    • View Profile
    • Marven Payne Creative Visuals
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2012, 11:57:32 AM »
Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases.

Like when the lens doesn't nail focus?

Also, at f/13 you are beyond the diffraction limit of the sensor.  You will get better results at f/11 but still may soften fine details, f/8 will probably be the sweet spot.

You missed the point. I shot at f/13 for the portrait of myself above. Because of the deep DOF, the shot was very much "in focus". Shooting your self with a timer requires that you you have deep DOF.

What I was saying is that when I have shallow DOF that I was finding the 5D Mark III to not nail focus and images were coming out a little on the soft side (usually for events or concerts with limited lighting conditions I'm at about 2.8 to 4.0). Another separate example image also above.

I probably should have clarified...  The first part was in reference to your initial post, and the fact you will need AFMA to nail focus on your thin DoF shots.  The second part, was just a note on your self portrait; you will get sharper results (especially on fine details) if you don't stop down quite so much, and you should still have plenty of DoF to pull off that shot at f/8 or f/11.

Thanks for the advice. Usually when I shoot short portraits I'm around f/7.1 or 8 unless I'm trying to do something artistic.
Canon 1DX, Canon 5D Mark III, EF 85mm F1.2L II USM, EF 100mm F2.8L IS USM Macro, EF 16-35mm F2.8L II USM, EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM, EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM, 600EX-RT Speedlites, Profoto Studio Strobes, and a whole lot of boat load of light modifiers.

DarkKnightNine

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 171
  • The best camera is the one that's with you.
    • View Profile
    • Marven Payne Creative Visuals
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2012, 12:23:25 PM »

If you're not here to help, how about you just scoot along little fella.

In all honesty, you haven't been very receptive to the help people have provided. You just seem to want to complain.

The first thing I do when I get a new lens is check the focus. Luckily none that I own have need any adjustment but several rented lenses have. It's just good to check. Esp if you are a wide open shooter.

I am making no assumptions or insults on your intelligence at all but the new 61 point system is quite different and perhaps more study is required. It's very similar to the 7D's system and it took me some time to fiddle with it and then finally decide one which mode was best for me. I had a lot of failures as a result.

But I just have a 7D so what do I know...  ::)

Perhaps I was a little hasty to pass judgement on the camera, just as you were hasty to pass judgement on me. I don't have an ego when it comes to taking advice but at the same time I hate it when people assume that just  because you say something negative about a product from their favorite company that you must be an idiot, incompetent or a basher. Canon and Nikon fanatics are becoming like Apple Fanboys. It's madness. Corporations exist to make money and in doing so they will cut corners to get a new product out the door if they fear competition is heating up. Canon is no different from any other corporate entity.

You also seemed assumed that I must have loads of cash to spend on equipment. Believe me if I did, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because I would be on Leica's Forums talking about an S2. Every penny I spend is one very rigorously earned so I guess I'm extra critical when my equipment doesn't live up to expectations.

On that note, I guess I had become so accustomed to the images I was getting from my 1D Mark IV that it hadn't really occurred to me that I had spent the better part of 3 years with that camera learning, tweaking and perfecting my shooting style with it.

I appreciate all the advice and input from everyone here. I'll try AFMA and I know that you can enter the serial number for your exact lens into the 5D Mark III. I'll try that and tweaking the AF System a little more to see if I can get better results when I shoot another concert again tomorrow night.
Canon 1DX, Canon 5D Mark III, EF 85mm F1.2L II USM, EF 100mm F2.8L IS USM Macro, EF 16-35mm F2.8L II USM, EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM, EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM, 600EX-RT Speedlites, Profoto Studio Strobes, and a whole lot of boat load of light modifiers.

CowGummy

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
    • www.smrphotoart.com
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2012, 12:53:40 PM »
i like your belt.
5DmkII   |  50 f/1.4  |  24-105L f/4  |  135L f/2  |  70-200L f/2.8 IS II  |  430exII

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2012, 12:53:40 PM »

williejr

  • Guest
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2012, 12:55:36 PM »
With all respect, I don't think cameras or focusing systems, or even lenses make "soft" pictures- the photographer does. Every camera has limitations that need to be learned & mastered. It's just a tool at the end of the day.

Yes indeed, that's why I've determined that the 5D Mark III belongs in a controlled environment like a studio whereas I'm waiting for the two 1DXes I ordered on announcement day for my event and concert shooting. That seems to be the 5D Mark III's limitations.

I only tried out the 5D Mark III last night because...
1. I thought it might be able to handle it given it has basically the same AF as the 1DX and...
2. My 1DXes have been delayed so I have to shoot with what I have.


I'm like you have a 1DIV and have put it down since my 5DM3 has arrived.  I have tried to put it to the test (low light, sports, engagement shoots...ect) and intially was dissappointed. I wasn't quite nailing focus, the right exposures and trying to find the correct "case" that would suit my shooting style/subject.

I went back to the drawing board, read the 5DM3 manual over and sat down to really understand the new AF and AI servo features and watch a bunch of the new videos on the Canon learning site about the new 61pt AF. 

I quickly found out, the the 5DM3 AF point-linked spot metering was ONLY limited to the center point, unlike the 1DIV that had been accustomed to, so my metering was always off.  Switching AF points on the 5DM3 required a extra step, unlike the 1DIV where you can use the toggle stick at anytime.  Also, for some strange reason, my lenses were a tad off and I needed to micro adjust.  My best lens, the 35L 1.4 was spot on perfect with my IV, but on the M3, I need to micro adjust +5. My 24, 85, 70-200 were spot on.  I played around trying different cases and it turned out using the default case and slowing down the tracking priority seemed to do the trick.

Just these small tweaks and a lot of practice as rendered some great images in different enviroments.  There is definate learning curve and adjustment period.  With all these people that say, my 5DM3 shoots nothing but great images, is just an exaggeration, because nobody has 100% keepers.

 

jabbott

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 98
    • View Profile
Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2012, 01:42:28 PM »
Have you tried shooting concerts with fast aperture prime lenses?  Personally I never get the shutter speed or AF performance I'm looking for when using zoom lenses in dim concert lighting.  An f/1.4 lens takes in 4X as much light than f/2.8 which makes a huge difference.  Admittedly the DOF is razor thin however.  Here is one of my favorite concert shots of Gregg Block of Ploy for Extinction, in the middle of headbanging, shot with a Canon 50mm f/1.4 wide open:


canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2012, 01:42:28 PM »