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Author Topic: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...  (Read 33765 times)

ers811

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2012, 01:45:15 PM »
Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.

I'm not going to bother reading all the pages in between here and now, I'll just say that every single lens I use on my 5D2 needs AFMA.

Every single one.

If you buy an F1.2-F1.8 lens and it works perfectly out of the box with your camera, you got lucky.

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2012, 01:45:15 PM »

deviousrlm

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2012, 02:23:39 PM »
I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way. 

This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:

I have not had focusing issues:
I agree with some of you saying it's likely the photog and not the gear....

Here you can see some 30+ shows I shot w/ my 7D and then the 4 most recent with the 5DMKIII and see the difference. 

http://mattappsphotography.com/bands

The only new lens I got with the 5DMKIII was the 16-35, which is obviously great as well (I used the 10-22 on the 7D).  Otherwise, all the lenses were pretty much the same.

I can't recommend the 5DMKIII enough, but obviously 3500 isn't small potatoes. 

Low-light is tough, and expecting the camera to do all the work isn't realistic.  Human skill with that camera, however, does make for some compelling work.

nitsujwalker

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2012, 02:49:44 PM »
I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way. 

This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:

I have not had focusing issues:
I agree with some of you saying it's likely the photog and not the gear....

Here you can see some 30+ shows I shot w/ my 7D and then the 4 most recent with the 5DMKIII and see the difference. 

http://mattappsphotography.com/bands

The only new lens I got with the 5DMKIII was the 16-35, which is obviously great as well (I used the 10-22 on the 7D).  Otherwise, all the lenses were pretty much the same.

I can't recommend the 5DMKIII enough, but obviously 3500 isn't small potatoes. 

Low-light is tough, and expecting the camera to do all the work isn't realistic.  Human skill with that camera, however, does make for some compelling work.

Great shots!

Razor2012

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2012, 03:19:41 PM »
I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way. 

This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:

I have not had focusing issues:
I agree with some of you saying it's likely the photog and not the gear....

Here you can see some 30+ shows I shot w/ my 7D and then the 4 most recent with the 5DMKIII and see the difference. 

http://mattappsphotography.com/bands

The only new lens I got with the 5DMKIII was the 16-35, which is obviously great as well (I used the 10-22 on the 7D).  Otherwise, all the lenses were pretty much the same.

I can't recommend the 5DMKIII enough, but obviously 3500 isn't small potatoes. 

Low-light is tough, and expecting the camera to do all the work isn't realistic.  Human skill with that camera, however, does make for some compelling work.

Great shots!

Agreed, 12800 looks good.
5D MKIII w grip, 70-200 2.8L IS II, 24-70 2.8L II, 16-35 2.8L II, 100 2.8L IS macro, 600EX-RT

RonQ

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2012, 04:13:56 PM »
Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.

I'm not going to bother reading all the pages in between here and now, I'll just say that every single lens I use on my 5D2 needs AFMA.

Every single one.

I have a MK2 and not trying to sound like an amature, but, what's  AFMA?

If you buy an F1.2-F1.8 lens and it works perfectly out of the box with your camera, you got lucky.
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PhotoCat

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2012, 04:37:39 PM »
Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.

I'm not going to bother reading all the pages in between here and now, I'll just say that every single lens I use on my 5D2 needs AFMA.

Every single one.

If you buy an F1.2-F1.8 lens and it works perfectly out of the box with your camera, you got lucky.


I was really curious to know if the Nikon guys need this AFMA. We r so used to it in the
Canon camp that whenever we purchase a new lens, we need to get a bandage for it as well LOL!

So I found the following link. It seems that the Nikon guys don't need this AFMA as much as we do...
Well, u tell me why...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/937053

I think one should eventually be able to design a camera/lens AF system that doesn't require AFMA.
AFMA feels like a bandage solution to me...  and it seems to rely on absolute tolerance of components too much...

t.linn

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2012, 05:17:31 PM »
I use FoCal, its the most accurate method I've found so far.

This is a great tip.  I'd never heard of FoCal before but it looks like a very useful tool.  With the Martin Bailey discount the Pro version is only $75.  That's cheaper than going with an alignment tool to perform the process manually.  I know what I'll be doing this weekend.

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2012, 05:17:31 PM »

Northstar

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2012, 05:39:58 PM »
dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective. 

Here are mine... I'm feeling pretty good about the AF now, but in my first couple shoots trying different AF settings I, like you, was a little disappointed.  But after spending some time playing around with AF settings I've come to a point where I think the AF is great...maybe not excellent, but great.

I've added a couple shots where the AF was challenged...I shot both of these images w/ the 70-200 ii with 2xiii (which obviously slows down AF speed)
the ducks were really flying fast as they were flying downwind
the trumpeter swans were moving quickly and a bit erratic (they were fighting)

both groups of birds were about 150 feet away - I think the autofocus nailed these shots

Really nice shots! Could you please share what your AF settings were e.g. Case 1 through 5 in the AF menu and if you did any further adjustments after selecting a Case.
Thanks.

Dark...my AF settings for now: (a work in progress as most of us 5d3 shooters know)
1.  I'm mainly using case 1 and 2 right now.  I find simple is better, with time I'll experiment with the others.
2.  I'm shooting manual, with single point AF point expansion.  Center single focus point and the 8 surrounding points..and I believe 5 of those 9 points are the dual cross type af points.   
3. I've selected -ONLY use cross type af points
4. In AI servo I'm using the EQUAL PRIORITY for 1st and 2nd image. (still experimenting here) 
5. NEVER using AI FOCUS...either one shot or ai servo
6. I set up my dof button to allow me to switch between one shot and ai servo just by pressing the dof.

hope this helps...and good luck.
oh...just because I love to show off the pooch...another AF example
Pooch is moving very quickly/erratically trying to catch that bouncing ball...it's very cloudy, dark clouds.  I shot a burst of about 8 images and all are focused about this good...this was a very casual spur of the moment shot taken w/o much thought,(underexposed, iso too low, shutter speed too low) So I think the AF was challenged here and it came through pretty good.

handheld -straight out of cam JPEG with only cropping and bumping the light.
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Northstar

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2012, 05:40:41 PM »
I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way. 

This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:

I have not had focusing issues:
I agree with some of you saying it's likely the photog and not the gear....

Here you can see some 30+ shows I shot w/ my 7D and then the 4 most recent with the 5DMKIII and see the difference. 

http://mattappsphotography.com/bands

The only new lens I got with the 5DMKIII was the 16-35, which is obviously great as well (I used the 10-22 on the 7D).  Otherwise, all the lenses were pretty much the same.

I can't recommend the 5DMKIII enough, but obviously 3500 isn't small potatoes. 

Low-light is tough, and expecting the camera to do all the work isn't realistic.  Human skill with that camera, however, does make for some compelling work.


I really like these shots!
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 05:43:54 PM by Northstar »
Sport Shooter

1dX and 5d3... 24-70 2.8ii, 70-200 2.8ii, 1.4xiii and 2xiii, 85, 40mm, 300 2.8L IS....430ex

1982chris911

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Razor2012

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1982chris911

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2012, 07:17:33 PM »

Nice shots, which lenses were you using?

Top two Sigma 12-24 HSM II, Ladybird is Canon 70-200 F2.8 IS II + Ext III x2 at 400mm, bottom Canon 24-70 f2.8   
5D MKII, 5D MK III, 7D, Sigma 12-24 HSM2, Canon 17-40 F/4.0 L, Canon 24-70 F/2.8 L, Canon 70-200 F/2.8 IS II L , Ext x2 III + some other stuff

Razor2012

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2012, 08:41:48 PM »

Nice shots, which lenses were you using?

Top two Sigma 12-24 HSM II, Ladybird is Canon 70-200 F2.8 IS II + Ext III x2 at 400mm, bottom Canon 24-70 f2.8

The 2x extender on the ladybug looks good.  I plan on getting the 1.4III.
5D MKIII w grip, 70-200 2.8L IS II, 24-70 2.8L II, 16-35 2.8L II, 100 2.8L IS macro, 600EX-RT

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2012, 08:41:48 PM »

DarkKnightNine

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2012, 09:20:56 PM »
With all respect, I don't think cameras or focusing systems, or even lenses make "soft" pictures- the photographer does. Every camera has limitations that need to be learned & mastered. It's just a tool at the end of the day.

Yes indeed, that's why I've determined that the 5D Mark III belongs in a controlled environment like a studio whereas I'm waiting for the two 1DXes I ordered on announcement day for my event and concert shooting. That seems to be the 5D Mark III's limitations.

I only tried out the 5D Mark III last night because...
1. I thought it might be able to handle it given it has basically the same AF as the 1DX and...
2. My 1DXes have been delayed so I have to shoot with what I have.


I'm like you have a 1DIV and have put it down since my 5DM3 has arrived.  I have tried to put it to the test (low light, sports, engagement shoots...ect) and intially was dissappointed. I wasn't quite nailing focus, the right exposures and trying to find the correct "case" that would suit my shooting style/subject.

I went back to the drawing board, read the 5DM3 manual over and sat down to really understand the new AF and AI servo features and watch a bunch of the new videos on the Canon learning site about the new 61pt AF. 

I quickly found out, the the 5DM3 AF point-linked spot metering was ONLY limited to the center point, unlike the 1DIV that had been accustomed to, so my metering was always off.  Switching AF points on the 5DM3 required a extra step, unlike the 1DIV where you can use the toggle stick at anytime.  Also, for some strange reason, my lenses were a tad off and I needed to micro adjust.  My best lens, the 35L 1.4 was spot on perfect with my IV, but on the M3, I need to micro adjust +5. My 24, 85, 70-200 were spot on.  I played around trying different cases and it turned out using the default case and slowing down the tracking priority seemed to do the trick.

Just these small tweaks and a lot of practice as rendered some great images in different enviroments.  There is definate learning curve and adjustment period.  With all these people that say, my 5DM3 shoots nothing but great images, is just an exaggeration, because nobody has 100% keepers.

 

Thank you. Finally a voice of reason. I just think so many people want to jump on the fanboy bandwagon and sing nothing but praises to the new Canon toy that no one wants to even consider the possibility that there may be something a little off. Like you, coming from a 1DMKIV and trying to adjust to the new camera has been a little difficult. I was able to get great pictures in controlled lighting but that's pretty rudimentary. It's the challenging lighting that makes a $3,000+ worth the price. Otherwise I would just shoot with a Rebel.

Anyway despite all the negative criticism, I'm determined to get the optimized settings and since I had read on other forums that the camera was having problems with the focus being a little soft, I thought I might have been experiencing similar problems. I guess this was the wrong forum to express those concerns and from now on I will only comment on this forum when I have something glowing to say about Canon gear as it seems most people aren't even open to the idea that there are occasionally problems that aren't necessarily user error.

That being said one of the reasons why I was looking forward to using this camera over my 1D Mark IV was for cleaner images at higher ISO. Another was higher resolution over the 16MP MKIV. This camera does do both of those things exceptionally well. Now if I can just get the AF to perform as well as my MKIV, I will be in heaven (that is until I get my hands on the 1DX which I think will be better suited for event photography).

Thanks for sharing that tip about the Spot Metering only being linked to the Center Point. I assumed it would be linked to whatever point I chose like on the MKIV since this is a more advanced metering and AF system.
Canon 1DX, Canon 5D Mark III, EF 85mm F1.2L II USM, EF 100mm F2.8L IS USM Macro, EF 16-35mm F2.8L II USM, EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM, EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM, 600EX-RT Speedlites, Profoto Studio Strobes, and a whole lot of boat load of light modifiers.

DarkKnightNine

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2012, 09:36:40 PM »
dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective. 

Here are mine... I'm feeling pretty good about the AF now, but in my first couple shoots trying different AF settings I, like you, was a little disappointed.  But after spending some time playing around with AF settings I've come to a point where I think the AF is great...maybe not excellent, but great.

I've added a couple shots where the AF was challenged...I shot both of these images w/ the 70-200 ii with 2xiii (which obviously slows down AF speed)
the ducks were really flying fast as they were flying downwind
the trumpeter swans were moving quickly and a bit erratic (they were fighting)

both groups of birds were about 150 feet away - I think the autofocus nailed these shots

Really nice shots! Could you please share what your AF settings were e.g. Case 1 through 5 in the AF menu and if you did any further adjustments after selecting a Case.
Thanks.

Dark...my AF settings for now: (a work in progress as most of us 5d3 shooters know)
1.  I'm mainly using case 1 and 2 right now.  I find simple is better, with time I'll experiment with the others.
2.  I'm shooting manual, with single point AF point expansion.  Center single focus point and the 8 surrounding points..and I believe 5 of those 9 points are the dual cross type af points.   
3. I've selected -ONLY use cross type af points
4. In AI servo I'm using the EQUAL PRIORITY for 1st and 2nd image. (still experimenting here) 
5. NEVER using AI FOCUS...either one shot or ai servo
6. I set up my dof button to allow me to switch between one shot and ai servo just by pressing the dof.

hope this helps...and good luck.
oh...just because I love to show off the pooch...another AF example
Pooch is moving very quickly/erratically trying to catch that bouncing ball...it's very cloudy, dark clouds.  I shot a burst of about 8 images and all are focused about this good...this was a very casual spur of the moment shot taken w/o much thought,(underexposed, iso too low, shutter speed too low) So I think the AF was challenged here and it came through pretty good.

handheld -straight out of cam JPEG with only cropping and bumping the light.


Yes this was very helpful. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure there are many people like myself who are still cutting their teeth with this new AF system so it really helps to get examples and settings from people who are having success with it rather than having people say "you're a crappy photographer and don't know how to shoot". I'm sure those same people also get missed or crappy shots as well even though they will never admit it. I've been a pro for many years and I know many other pros and we all know that missed shots are something that can't be avoided (granted the percentage is lower for pros), so I'm not afraid to admit I screw up and/or may not know how to use a new system. So thank you for your help and I'm sure others reading this post have also learned a thing or two as well.
Canon 1DX, Canon 5D Mark III, EF 85mm F1.2L II USM, EF 100mm F2.8L IS USM Macro, EF 16-35mm F2.8L II USM, EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM, EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM, 600EX-RT Speedlites, Profoto Studio Strobes, and a whole lot of boat load of light modifiers.

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2012, 09:36:40 PM »