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Author Topic: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...  (Read 35689 times)

DarkKnightNine

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2012, 09:55:48 PM »
Well as long as it is capable of shots like these it is within my expectations or better  ;) ...
P.S. I love the new AF ...


Decentered Ascent - Umschreibung #2 von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr


The Impossible Staircase - Umschreibung #1 von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr


Signs of Spring - Ladybird von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr


Stone Bridge Regensburg - Blue Hour von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr

Yes admittedly these are very lovely shots. Love them! But they are nowhere near addressing the concerns I was speaking of. They aren't shots of a fast moving subject in an extremely low lit environment. Someone mentioned earlier that I shouldn't expect that much from my camera but my counter argument would be, then Canon shouldn't charge so much for it. Getting these kinds of shots are not as difficult as shooting a performance in a dimly lit club and I believe could be achieved just as easily with a 5D Mark II or a 7D and good technique. So yes I do expect a lot from the 5D Mark III especially after waiting three years for the upgrade and paying a premium price over other Canon bodies or the competition.
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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2012, 09:55:48 PM »

risc32

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2012, 11:03:46 PM »
I guess i'm not as critical as many of you, or i'm just lucky. i haven't strayed from the factory defaults for the AF system settings. I'm just using one sensor, and using my thumb to bump it around as needed. only using the cross type. I haven't fooled with the micro adjusting either. It looks good to me, at 100% views. Even my 300mm2.8 wide open at the minimum focus distance. I've getting a better hit rate than i ever did with my 1dmk2.

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2012, 11:25:13 PM »
The thing is that you immediately said that the 5D Mark III was released too early. I don't feel like this at all when I receive a new camera (I've gone through multiple Canons and Nikons over the past couple of years). The thing that many people seem to forget is that unless you created that camera, you won't know how to make it work exactly like your last one. That's not how Canon makes them. ;) They create a new design and with a new AF system, you're going to have to learn how to use it. It's a completely redone system, it's not going to act the same. Moving from a 7D to a 1D Mark III for sports, I quickly saw differences in the generations of AF systems. They're not all the same, so yes they'll need AFMA, and quite some time to get the nuances worked out :) take it as a learning opportunity, Canon released it not for the sole reason of just saying, "Hey, we got it out in time for the D800." The camera works, but like all cameras, there are flaws...

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2012, 12:21:43 AM »
dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective. 

Here are mine... I'm feeling pretty good about the AF now, but in my first couple shoots trying different AF settings I, like you, was a little disappointed.  But after spending some time playing around with AF settings I've come to a point where I think the AF is great...maybe not excellent, but great.

I've added a couple shots where the AF was challenged...I shot both of these images w/ the 70-200 ii with 2xiii (which obviously slows down AF speed)
the ducks were really flying fast as they were flying downwind
the trumpeter swans were moving quickly and a bit erratic (they were fighting)

both groups of birds were about 150 feet away - I think the autofocus nailed these shots

Really nice shots! Could you please share what your AF settings were e.g. Case 1 through 5 in the AF menu and if you did any further adjustments after selecting a Case.
Thanks.

Dark...my AF settings for now: (a work in progress as most of us 5d3 shooters know)
1.  I'm mainly using case 1 and 2 right now.  I find simple is better, with time I'll experiment with the others.
2.  I'm shooting manual, with single point AF point expansion.  Center single focus point and the 8 surrounding points..and I believe 5 of those 9 points are the dual cross type af points.   
3. I've selected -ONLY use cross type af points
4. In AI servo I'm using the EQUAL PRIORITY for 1st and 2nd image. (still experimenting here) 
5. NEVER using AI FOCUS...either one shot or ai servo
6. I set up my dof button to allow me to switch between one shot and ai servo just by pressing the dof.

hope this helps...and good luck.
oh...just because I love to show off the pooch...another AF example
Pooch is moving very quickly/erratically trying to catch that bouncing ball...it's very cloudy, dark clouds.  I shot a burst of about 8 images and all are focused about this good...this was a very casual spur of the moment shot taken w/o much thought,(underexposed, iso too low, shutter speed too low) So I think the AF was challenged here and it came through pretty good.

handheld -straight out of cam JPEG with only cropping and bumping the light.


Yes this was very helpful. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure there are many people like myself who are still cutting their teeth with this new AF system so it really helps to get examples and settings from people who are having success with it rather than having people say "you're a crappy photographer and don't know how to shoot". I'm sure those same people also get missed or crappy shots as well even though they will never admit it. I've been a pro for many years and I know many other pros and we all know that missed shots are something that can't be avoided (granted the percentage is lower for pros), so I'm not afraid to admit I screw up and/or may not know how to use a new system. So thank you for your help and I'm sure others reading this post have also learned a thing or two as well.

Hey DKN-- sorry, I should have been more helpful in my previous post beyond just showing examples.  Coming from the 7D, the focusing was very similar so the adjustment to the MKIII was pretty easy for me.  For club stuff, I typically shoot in either P (with a longer lens) or in T (for a wider lens) allowing the camera to choose ISO (it's almost always wide open since it's dark).  For AF, I always use one-shot, metering evaluative (and then just shoot a lot and change exposure comp if the lighting is wacky, which it always is...) and let the camera do the work.  If lighting is sort-of stable, I might shoot M which now is nice that the MKIII will auto change ISO. 

For focus, I usually use the Expand AF area (the 3rd option) or go down to spot or manual if that doesn't work.  With a shot like the one below, you have to be with spot or 1pt AF or it will just go between the hand and face... and the shot will be blurry.



Manual can be too touchy though--depends if it's really dark or band is moving fast (why is it always both? ;)

Then occasionally, I use liveview!



Which actually focuses well too.  This was shot with the camera over my head, wide-open and is surprisingly sharp with my 50mm 1.4 wide open.  ISO 100 too (!!)

I'll admit I have not done any microadjustments for my lenses and I've been pretty happy.  Of course you throw shots away, but at this point, it's more circumstance than anything.

Keep at it--I think if you shoot with 1-shot AF and get the hang of precision of the points, you'll get more usable.  Or I guess something could be funky with your copy and/or the lenses you are using it with.

Cheers,
Matt

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2012, 12:37:31 AM »
The only thing that disappoints me about the 5D3 is that you can't take spot meter readings from any AF point. The 5D3 has the same AF system as the 1DX, which does have that feature (along with the 1D4, 1DS3). I can sort of understand why previous non-flagship cameras lacked this feature, since the 5D3 is the first Canon camera I'm aware of with an AF system (or any feature) that is a hand-me-down from the current flagship. Why Canon, WHY? I know Canon nerfs their consumer products to "protect" their flagship, but this is ridiculous. Nikon consumer bodies have been able to spot meter from the AF point since the D70 for God's sake.

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2012, 12:46:17 AM »

Her Midnight Rendezvous by FrutigerSans, on Flickr

This was a snap shot I took last night. This was a very quick shot - the 5D3 performed beautifully, locking focus immediately after I framed the shot. I snapped of quite a few frames to get the pose of the subjects and the position of the moving cars that I wanted. All within a matter of seconds.

All my frames were in focus.

For what its worth, I only use the 41 Cross points as I find their accuracy in low light far exceeds the remaining 20 points.
I’m also using an un-edited case 1. And my shutter is set to focus priority over release priority.

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2012, 02:33:05 AM »
The only thing that disappoints me about the 5D3 is that you can't take spot meter readings from any AF point. The 5D3 has the same AF system as the 1DX, which does have that feature (along with the 1D4, 1DS3). I can sort of understand why previous non-flagship cameras lacked this feature, since the 5D3 is the first Canon camera I'm aware of with an AF system (or any feature) that is a hand-me-down from the current flagship. Why Canon, WHY? I know Canon nerfs their consumer products to "protect" their flagship, but this is ridiculous. Nikon consumer bodies have been able to spot meter from the AF point since the D70 for God's sake.

Heck, my EOS-3 film camera (45pt AF system) from the 90's can do spot metering from off center focusing points. It can even do multiple readings and average them together! And don't even get me started on Eye-Control focusing :)

Now Canon just needs to put a "D" at the end of that name...
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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2012, 02:33:05 AM »

Violettpunkt

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2012, 04:33:27 AM »

Something tells me you have more money than talent.
+1
But then, it seems to be more fun to bash something without trying to understand the root of the problem, much less try to fix it.
+1



Pretty much sum up the OP in person IMHO.

DarkKnightNine

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2012, 06:30:15 AM »

Something tells me you have more money than talent.
+1
But then, it seems to be more fun to bash something without trying to understand the root of the problem, much less try to fix it.
+1



Pretty much sum up the OP in person IMHO.


Yes you're absolutely right, I'm a rich, talentless whinner who gets his kicks off of coming to a forum of a manufacturer that everyone loves to bash said manufacturer because I have nothing better to do with my time just so I get verbally abused. Yep that's what I wake up and live for. You got me all figured out.

I'm sick of taking crap just because I posted concerns that I was having with my camera.
I never want to see a negative post on this forum ever again and you abusive people (in no way referring to the ones who were helpful) had better be taking award winning shots every time you press your shutter release no matter what the circumstances are. As a matter of fact, I wish CanonRumors would start a Photo Contest so we can see all of those wonderful shots that you all seem to think you can take.

One thing I have learned from living in Asia since I retired from the military is that western people can be abusive for no other reason than just wanting to be abusive. It is neither helpful nor is it impressive. It just makes you look like an a$$.

If you think I was bashing Canon, you are WRONG! Why would I own so much Canon gear if I didn't like their products, but like some of you, I'm not under the illusion that corporations can do no wrong. I have lived and worked in Japan for over 2 decades and have been a consultant to many tech companies. I have seen many goofs that make to market and signed more NDAs than you can possibly imagine, so I guess I'm more critical than some of you may be because I have leagues more experience on the subject and have worked with and for many Japanese companies.

If you think I'm rich, you are WRONG, I work my a$$ off for every hard earned penny.

And if you think I'm talentless, well that's your opinion and I don't mind that but you should keep it to yourself. I have seen many pictures that I didn't think were all that great posted here and on other forums but I would NEVER (out of simple human courtesy and respect) tell the person they are talentless. How would a comment like that help them become a better photographer? If anything, it would make them lose confidence and perhaps give up. Photography is an art form and art is something that is subjective. What one person may hate, another may love so what right do any of us have to call another person talentless?! I'm willing to accept that I'm not the greatest photographer (I still have much to learn) but I am published in several magazines so to call me talentless is a bit overboard and completely disrespectful.

And finally if you think I'm not trying to understand or fix the problem, why would I be here? The people who have provided suggestions have been very helpful and as this is a new camera with a completely new AF, I'm sure we all have had and will have our own individual problems with it. Forums like this can be a great source for us each to share what we learned and the failures we've had so that others may learn. If you think the 5D MKIII was perfect, then why would Canon still be working on the 1DX which has a similar AF system. Not to mention the comment that almost all of you seem to overlook is that I spoke directly with Canon Execs and played with the camera literally three days before the camera's official release and even they told me it wasn't perfected yet. I was also one the first people in Japan to take delivery of one so it is entirely possible that my particular camera may have some bugs that a lot of yours don't.

So to just bash me for your own ego's sake is just stupid and not helpful to anyone much less me.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 06:02:14 PM by DarkKnightNine »
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briansquibb

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2012, 07:50:23 AM »
Yes you're absolutely right, I'm a rich, talentless whinner who gets his kicks off of coming to a forum of a manufacturer that everyone loves to bash said manufacturer because I have nothing better to do with my time just so I get verbally abused. Yep that's what I wake up and live for. You got me all figured out.

If you think I'm rich, you are WRONG, I work my a$$ off for every hard earned penny

How dare you try to depose me as the rich, talentless whinner  :o :o :o

Now you perhaps understand why I got the proven 1DS3 instead of waiting for the 5DIII. It has the AF point linked metering and all the other series 1 features - plus of course 21mp

neuroanatomist

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2012, 09:49:37 AM »
@DarkKnightNine - personally, I have no problem with you or anyone bashing Canon when warranted, and for sure they've screwed up many times (1DIII AF, 5DII black spots, to name a couple).  The issue, IMO, is that you led off with (paraphrasing), "Canon rushed the 5DIII out prematurely, it's not ready for prime time, the AF system is ineffective."  You might be right on all three points, but on the last one, you didn't fairly evaluate the performance.  It's like stating the new car you just bought has a problem because it can't seem go over 30 mph, it's defective and you want a refund, when you put the transmission in 2nd gear instead of Drive.

As a matter of fact, I wish CanonRumors would start a Photo Contest so we can see all of those wonderful shots that you all seem to think you can take.

There was one, a few months back - the prize was a choice between a 8-15L fisheye and a 70-300L.  Frankly, there was a huge, diverse array of amazing images from forum members.   
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bp

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2012, 10:02:33 AM »
DKN, don't let forum trolls get you riled - them typing 4 characters, resulting in you typing 10,000 means they succeeded.  Screw that - heh.   Frankly, when you shelled out the money, you bought the right to publicly say whatever the heck you want about the camera.

I came from 5d2/7D - not the 1D4 - so for ME, this is by far the best camera I've ever owned.  I could imagine that coming from a 1D series to a 5D series could take some getting used to.

I got a little frustrated in my first several hours of testing out the 5d3 - for ME, it was that I was still using expansion points in low light with wide apertures.  The camera seemed to want to pick a spot that I didn't intend, and most shots were slightly off.  I switched over to spot AF, and suddenly it was nailing everything - even my dog who was having a freak-out session, lit only be the television behind him.  I intended to switch back over to zone and use expansion points again later, but so far I haven't taken it off spot because it's workin for me.  I almost feel like I'm letting all these advanced options go to waste, but if it aint broke...

Then again, it always seems that different people have better luck with different settings, but it's definitely true that some experimentation is needed to find YOUR sweet spot.  i.e. one guy here is constantly advising people to never use AI Servo with 1.2 lenses, and for whatever reason, that's where I have most success with my 85II wide open.  Servo nails every shot and I have less luck with one shot.  Maybe I'm just shakier than he is.  heh.  So, to each his own.

Keep at it, play around with settings, find that sweet spot for you!   Or return it or resell it - these things are still in pretty hot demand right now.
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KevinB

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2012, 10:12:24 AM »
Very good info !!

dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective. 

Here are mine... I'm feeling pretty good about the AF now, but in my first couple shoots trying different AF settings I, like you, was a little disappointed.  But after spending some time playing around with AF settings I've come to a point where I think the AF is great...maybe not excellent, but great.

I've added a couple shots where the AF was challenged...I shot both of these images w/ the 70-200 ii with 2xiii (which obviously slows down AF speed)
the ducks were really flying fast as they were flying downwind
the trumpeter swans were moving quickly and a bit erratic (they were fighting)

both groups of birds were about 150 feet away - I think the autofocus nailed these shots

Really nice shots! Could you please share what your AF settings were e.g. Case 1 through 5 in the AF menu and if you did any further adjustments after selecting a Case.
Thanks.

Dark...my AF settings for now: (a work in progress as most of us 5d3 shooters know)
1.  I'm mainly using case 1 and 2 right now.  I find simple is better, with time I'll experiment with the others.
2.  I'm shooting manual, with single point AF point expansion.  Center single focus point and the 8 surrounding points..and I believe 5 of those 9 points are the dual cross type af points.   
3. I've selected -ONLY use cross type af points
4. In AI servo I'm using the EQUAL PRIORITY for 1st and 2nd image. (still experimenting here) 
5. NEVER using AI FOCUS...either one shot or ai servo
6. I set up my dof button to allow me to switch between one shot and ai servo just by pressing the dof.

hope this helps...and good luck.
oh...just because I love to show off the pooch...another AF example
Pooch is moving very quickly/erratically trying to catch that bouncing ball...it's very cloudy, dark clouds.  I shot a burst of about 8 images and all are focused about this good...this was a very casual spur of the moment shot taken w/o much thought,(underexposed, iso too low, shutter speed too low) So I think the AF was challenged here and it came through pretty good.

handheld -straight out of cam JPEG with only cropping and bumping the light.

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2012, 10:12:24 AM »

EvilTed

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2012, 11:14:59 AM »
DKN,

You need to take their attacks like water flowing off a ducks back....

OSU!

ET

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2012, 11:50:31 AM »
DKN,

You need to take their attacks like water flowing off a ducks back....

OSU!

ET

Ditto...

Constructive criticism is welcome here, bashing the guy's talent is not.

DarkKnightNine...  Ignore the trolls, and try not to get defensive when people try to give helpful suggestions.  The probable answer to your problems was given within the first couple posts.  People get frustrated when sound advice is ignored or dismissed.  Most of the people here are just trying to help.

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Re: 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2012, 11:50:31 AM »