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Author Topic: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]  (Read 55828 times)

briansquibb

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2012, 08:04:00 PM »

10+ yeas ago, everyone had full frame cameras.

And 10 years from now, almost no-one will own  a full frame camera.

Stop living in the past ;)

Agreed - we will be using MF with 200mps

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2012, 08:04:00 PM »

JR

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2012, 08:41:01 PM »

10+ yeas ago, everyone had full frame cameras.

And 10 years from now, almost no-one will own  a full frame camera.

Stop living in the past ;)

Agreed - we will be using MF with 200mps


...and shooting at ISO 204,000 !!!

  8) 8) 8)
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tron

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2012, 08:42:18 PM »
i cannot understand why canon should produce an entry level FF. They have one it's called 5DmkII and apart from autofocus, 2.1 fps more and about 2/3 stops improvement in high iso - please don't mention 2 stops I am referring  to raw files- it's extremely close in IQ to 5DmkIII. I do not know if I will own in the future a 5DmkIII but I am not selling my 5DmkII period!

I think it is much easier for canon to lower a little the price of  the 5DmkII rather than design, test and produce an entry level FF. I personally believe that this suits the users too. Do you think of any unresolved issues (bugs not missing features) with 5DmkII? I don't.

Woody

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2012, 11:36:49 PM »
i cannot understand why canon should produce an entry level FF. They have one it's called 5DmkII and apart from autofocus, 2.1 fps more and about 2/3 stops improvement in high iso - please don't mention 2 stops I am referring  to raw files- it's extremely close in IQ to 5DmkIII.

Canon can replace the metal body with polycarbonate, and the penta-prism with a  penta-mirror. In short, introduce a FF sensor into a small and lightweight body (600D). Market that for ~US$1500 and it'll sell like hot-cakes.

I'll like to see Canon limit DSLR bodies to FF and convert all APS-C cameras into compact camera systems. Perhaps that's what Canon has in mind and that's why we're not seeing the usual yearly replacement for the 600D.

That's just my preference. :)

c.d.embrey

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2012, 01:18:20 AM »

Seems to me that you called us ff fanboys so I thought I would return the favour.

Feel free to call me an APS-C Fanboy. :) I don't have any problem with Film Fanboy either :)

Quote
As you seem to be unable to handhold with anything heavier than a NEX5

I was shooting with a 5D3 a couple of weeks ago. As I've said before, it's a great camera, but a lot heavier than I like. That's why I do most of my paid work with a Canon APS-C camera.

Quote
Real Canon pros hand hold their 800s attached to series 1s without using props

 ::)

Does that mean you think all the photographers, along the side lines, at the Super Bowl and the World Cup are amateurs  ;)  ;)  ;)































c.d.embrey

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2012, 01:27:48 AM »

Agreed - we will be using MF with 200mps

My guess is 80 Mp Smart Phones. That also shoot 4K Digital Video. ;)

If Moore's Law continues to function, we'll have MFD IQ in a very small camera very soon. Bet on it!

briansquibb

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2012, 04:06:22 AM »

Does that mean you think all the photographers, along the side lines, at the Super Bowl and the World Cup are amateurs  ;)  ;)  ;)

Super Bowl ? Never heard of it. What soccer team is that  :o :o :o :o

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2012, 04:06:22 AM »

moreorless

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2012, 05:28:46 AM »

Agreed - we will be using MF with 200mps

My guess is 80 Mp Smart Phones. That also shoot 4K Digital Video. ;)

If Moore's Law continues to function, we'll have MFD IQ in a very small camera very soon. Bet on it!

I'd guess the limates of optical technology will prevent things going too far in this direction, the NEX maybe small but its still ulimately using the same sized sensor as crop DSLRs.

A high MP FF camera does seem like a good opportunity to take the mirrorless route to me though. FF DSLR's seem well suited to the jurno/sports/wildlife users given the advanatge in AF performance and the fact that there often using large tele lenses that balance well with a heavy body. A camera targetting the studio and landscape market doesnt need the same AF performance and is more likely to be used with lenses in the wide/normal range that could be downsized and balance well with a smaller body.

Perhaps such a camera could even follow the GXR M mount route? Having a detactable sensor/lens mount seems like an easy/cheaper way to mobular design than a digital back.

Marsu42

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2012, 06:20:43 AM »
Canon can replace the metal body with polycarbonate, and the penta-prism with a  penta-mirror. In short, introduce a FF sensor into a small and lightweight body (600D). Market that for ~US$1500 and it'll sell like hot-cakes.

While it sounds interesting, I don't think so. I'd rather guess that Canon marketing has figured out that people who spend a lot of $$$ for a Japanese black plastic dlsr want to have a lot of camera for it or they'd get an expensive, exclusive Leica. And the larger full frame mirror needs a somewhat larger body to begin with.

Ellen Schmidtee

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2012, 06:48:35 AM »
i cannot understand why canon should produce an entry level FF. They have one it's called 5DmkII ...

As Canon sells xxxxD series bodies with sensors taken from relatively older xxxD bodies, why not sell a cheap FF camera with the 5D's sensor? There are plenty of photographers who used (and probably still use) the Nikon D700, which has similar resolution.

grosssa

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2012, 07:27:01 AM »
i cannot understand why canon should produce an entry level FF. They have one it's called 5DmkII

I am one of the customers who currently have a EOS 450d and would like to upgrade to FF. As photography is still a hobb though a concept like an entry level FF is just what I would need.

As to the 5D Mark II being the current entry level FF I can not speak for everybody, but even though the camera is of course still very good, I do not want to buy a 3 year old product. It is of course a pure psychological reason, but if I buy a new product I prefer to buy something released not so long ago.

Now with this attitude I am not the hardcore photographer, I know its more the tech geek attitude, but looking at the market canon will - in my opinion - be able to sell a lot of entry level FF to hobby/enthusiast photographers if they release a new FF model. Its just the same as with mobile phones, the old ones are not crap because they are old, but the consumer expects she/he is getting more for the money with a new model.

Therefore I wait for a entry level FF, and I guess I am not the only one right now ;)

Kind regards,
Sascha

moreorless

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2012, 07:46:28 AM »
i cannot understand why canon should produce an entry level FF. They have one it's called 5DmkII ...

As Canon sells xxxxD series bodies with sensors taken from relatively older xxxD bodies, why not sell a cheap FF camera with the 5D's sensor? There are plenty of photographers who used (and probably still use) the Nikon D700, which has similar resolution.

The biggest factor is surely going to be competision, if Nikon release a budget 24MP FF DSLR with pro AF then Canon really can't get away with either a 5D mk3 sensor with crippled AF or an old 5D sensor.

The release that would make the most sense to me would be a new high MP sensor in a body similar to the 5D mk2. I think the D800 and the 5D mk2's sucess pretty defintively proove that whatever peoples opinions on it resolution sells well on a body targetted at mainly amatures.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 11:22:32 AM by moreorless »

Bosman

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2012, 09:45:20 AM »
i cannot understand why canon should produce an entry level FF. They have one it's called 5DmkII

I am one of the customers who currently have a EOS 450d and would like to upgrade to FF. As photography is still a hobb though a concept like an entry level FF is just what I would need.

As to the 5D Mark II being the current entry level FF I can not speak for everybody, but even though the camera is of course still very good, I do not want to buy a 3 year old product. It is of course a pure psychological reason, but if I buy a new product I prefer to buy something released not so long ago.

Now with this attitude I am not the hardcore photographer, I know its more the tech geek attitude, but looking at the market canon will - in my opinion - be able to sell a lot of entry level FF to hobby/enthusiast photographers if they release a new FF model. Its just the same as with mobile phones, the old ones are not crap because they are old, but the consumer expects she/he is getting more for the money with a new model.

Therefore I wait for a entry level FF, and I guess I am not the only one right now ;)

Kind regards,
Sascha

I don't think many hobbiests will buy FF because they won't spend the cash on FF lenses because they are pricey and struggle with spending $200 for a lens. The hobbiests that do buy the FF glass usually also have 1d and 5d series cameras and don't care how much it cost.
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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2012, 09:45:20 AM »

tron

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2012, 12:08:22 PM »
I see requests for a cheap (around 1500$) FF camera the moment the very good 5DmkII costs about $2200.
Maybe we should also request a FF with a price around $2700, a FF with a price around $3000, etc...  ::)

c.d.embrey

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2012, 01:36:12 PM »

I'd guess the limates of optical technology will prevent things going too far in this direction,

There are some M4/3 lenses that have good IQ. Leica's DG SUMMILUX 25mm F1.4 ASPH is one of them. And Canon has built high quality lenses, for 2/3" Broadcast Video cameras, for a long time.

Quote

the NEX maybe small but its still ulimately using the same sized sensor as crop DSLRs.

That's the point. A NEX 7 (1.5 crop) is much smaller and lighter than a Canon 60D. And the Sony sensor is 24 Mp, not 18 Mp like the Canon.

But time marches on, and I'm sure that the next generation of Canon APS-C sensors will have more IQ than the present Sony sensors. Manufacturers leap-frogging one another is how high tech works -- everyone gets to be the leader for a few weeks.

Quote
A high MP FF camera does seem like a good opportunity to take the mirrorless route to me though.

The problem with FF cameras is that they require large/heavy FF lenses :( A Leica 25mm f/1.4 M4/3 (2X crop) lens weighs 200 grams and the Canon 50mm f/1.4 weighs 290 grams. Percentage wise the difference between 200 and 290 is very large.

This is also a problem for Canon APS-C cameras because they use FF lenses, except for the EF-S zooms. Even though I'm an APS-C Fanbo, I can see a future need for M4/3 cameras, if you really want to decrease size and weight even more. Me, I'd be happy with a NEX 7 sized CANON CAMERA with 14mm f/1.8, 24mm f/1.8 and 85mm f/1.8 primes.

Quote

FF DSLR's seem well suited to the jurno/sports/wildlife users given the advanatge in AF performance ...

The Nikon 2.7x crop mirrorless cameras (J1 & V1) have the Phase Detect Auto Focus sensors built into the chip and are said to focus as fast as Nikon's DSLRs :) 

" ...Very DSLR-like in most aspects, including speed and tracking ability ..." & " ...This is the result of phase detect sensors being built into the imaging sensor, coupled with the high frame rate of the sensor ..."  http://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/nikon-v1-review.html

Like it or not, "time marches on" into the high-tech future. :)  :)  :)

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Re: More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2012, 01:36:12 PM »