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Author Topic: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda  (Read 26762 times)

Hathaway

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2012, 06:29:27 PM »
Yes, I always push my shadows 5 stops so that would really be noticeable.

sorry but you react like stupid fanboy.

the fact that you can push the shadows 4-5 stops does not mean you have to.
but it´s fantastic that you can do it.

only a fanboy or blind can be unimpressed by the sony sensor at low iso.

seeing the results from fredmiranda and LL  i have to say the D800 has an incredible sensor.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/t/canon-mk3-2b.jpg

http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/t/nikon2b.jpg

with 36 MP... and that shadow noise.. just WOW.
something i would not have believed 3 month ago.

canon can have all video improvements in the world.. i care about image quality.
for landscape or studio i also don´t care much about AF performance.

in fact i would be 100% fine with the 5D MK2 and just a sensor like the D800.
it doesn´t need to be 36 MP for me. but with that perfromance.. i can only say ..why not?

I continue to find it interesting that the technical people of these forums (Canon Rumors, DPReview, FM, etc.) only focus on Fred's pictures of the shadows from the buildings.  I will be the first to say it is extremely impressive what Sony/Nikon has done with the sensor, but if you continue to read Fred's review and look at all of the pictures he takes for the articles, he points out some serious flaws in focus with the Nikon.  So much so that he quit using it for the rest of his trip and mainly stuck with the Canon.  In addition, he uses the TS-E lenses and indicates that nothing Nikon has can match that glass. 

If you also slow down and look at the photos Fred took for the article, they are fantastic and would look good printed to pretty nice sizes.  Bottom line, as someone that does not make a living in photography but was looking to upgrade to the 5d3 for landscapes, I was extremely encouraged.  Landscape photography is about maximizing the capabilities of your equipment in often challenging conditions (light, location, perspective, etc.).  All in all the photographer (in this case Fred) managed to use the tool (the 5d3) to create fantastic images. 

It was actually quite encouraging article for me and now has me looking for the 17 and 24 TSEs! 

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2012, 06:29:27 PM »

briansquibb

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 06:36:28 PM »
Yes, I always push my shadows 5 stops so that would really be noticeable.

sorry but you react like stupid fanboy.

the fact that you can push the shadows 4-5 stops does not mean you have to.
but it´s fantastic that you can do it.

only a fanboy or blind can be unimpressed by the sony sensor at low iso.

seeing the results from fredmiranda and LL  i have to say the D800 has an incredible sensor.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/t/canon-mk3-2b.jpg

http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/t/nikon2b.jpg

with 36 MP... and that shadow noise.. just WOW.
something i would not have believed 3 month ago.

canon can have all video improvements in the world.. i care about image quality.
for landscape or studio i also don´t care much about AF performance.

in fact i would be 100% fine with the 5D MK2 and just a sensor like the D800.
it doesn´t need to be 36 MP for me. but with that perfromance.. i can only say ..why not?

I read Davids response as an attempt at humour 8) 8) 8) as no sensible person pushes shadows by 5 stops

cpsico

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 08:10:53 PM »
This may be considered insanity by some here but how about comparing a perfectly exposed 5dIII image to a perfectly exposed D800 image with the same contrast,color temperature, and color saturation settings?

 I realize there are a lot of people that struggle with exposure and may need to nuke the heck out of there files in photoshop. I could see an advantage for the d800 in a program like topaz adjust that really pushes an image but not so much for normal shots without high contrast.

Not to mention one other item, how much is nikon cooking there raw files vs canon? Is some sort of noise reduction being done to the file even as a raw?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 08:26:01 PM by cpsico »

risc32

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2012, 08:17:30 PM »
From nearly every test i've seen anywhere, the sony sensor is amazing. But I have to ask, are many of you guys boosting shadows by these amounts?  Maybe it's just me, but I've never come anywhere near doing this stuff. Let me repeat, the sony sensor is amazing, but isn't this just silly?

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2012, 08:53:03 PM »
From nearly every test i've seen anywhere, the sony sensor is amazing. But I have to ask, are many of you guys boosting shadows by these amounts?  Maybe it's just me, but I've never come anywhere near doing this stuff. Let me repeat, the sony sensor is amazing, but isn't this just silly?

The most i would push shadows for my type of pictures would be two stops max.  That said i agree the new sony sensor seem really great.
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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2012, 09:33:33 PM »
I read Davids response as an attempt at humour 8) 8) 8) as no sensible person pushes shadows by 5 stops

The lack of shadow noise is significant in other ways as it means the darker the colour, the closer the D800 will be when compared to the 5D3.

That read noise that you see in the shadow for the 5D3 has an impact on every picture.

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2012, 09:38:19 PM »
From nearly every test i've seen anywhere, the sony sensor is amazing. But I have to ask, are many of you guys boosting shadows by these amounts?  Maybe it's just me, but I've never come anywhere near doing this stuff. Let me repeat, the sony sensor is amazing, but isn't this just silly?

It's not so much that it is still looking good when you do 5 stops, but that the implications are for moving half that, then it's going to be quite excellent whereas with the Canon, you're going to see noise creeping in quite early if it looks like that by the time you're +5.

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2012, 09:38:19 PM »

smirkypants

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2012, 10:18:01 PM »
I have both. Initially I liked the 5D3 more, but I think that had to do more with familiarity than anything else. Don't get me wrong, I like the 5D3 plenty but as I'm learning more and more about the d800 I'm liking it more. What I'm constantly amazed by is being able to take images with things in dark shadow and extract amazing detail and beautiful color from it. Stunned is more like it. I'm finding myself drifting more and more away from my Canon gear. Sad. I've been a Canon shooter for a very long time.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2012, 03:02:02 PM »
From nearly every test i've seen anywhere, the sony sensor is amazing. But I have to ask, are many of you guys boosting shadows by these amounts?  Maybe it's just me, but I've never come anywhere near doing this stuff. Let me repeat, the sony sensor is amazing, but isn't this just silly?

It's not necessarily silly at all, it depends upon what you shoot. Tons of my shots have no need for that at all, many even need shadows crushed, and yet I all the same I constantly run into DR limitations all the time too, it's not that hard to do unless you only stick to the straight and narrow of one single style/type of shooting that happens to never need it.

What is silly is that if it were the 5D3 with the better sensor everyone here would be going on about how the D800 is 100% useless for ANY type of photos.  ;)

Nikon people generally admitted our sensors trounced their sensors to pieces back in say 20D/5D days.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 03:04:38 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

sarangiman

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2012, 03:29:53 PM »
I shot a Stouffer Transmission Wedge (13.2 stops DR total) with a 5DII, 5DIII, & a D7000.

The 5DIII required 1/3EV less exposure than 5DII to keep any channel (meaning: green, since that blows first) from blowing out in the brightest patch of the wedge. The D7000 needed 2/3EV less exposure than 5DII (i.e. 1/3EV less exposure than 5DIII) to keep any channel from blowing out.

But regardless of the highlight handling, the D7000 retained a SNR>1 down to the darkest patch, giving it ~13EV DR if your lower limit is SNR of 1. The 5DIII was stuck somewhere around 11.3EV DR (again, assuming lowest acceptable SNR is 1), b/c its SNR went to 1 at patch #35 (whereas D7000 maintained SNR>1 down to patch 42). These patches are 0.1 density increments, so you can calculate the DR by doing the following calculation:

DR = log2[(10^#of patches for which SNR>1)/10)

So that pretty much debunks the whole theory that the Canon sensors might still have really good DR b/c of how they handle highlights.

PhilDrinkwater

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2012, 03:32:53 PM »
I would quite happily accept more dr. It'd allow me to do single frame HDR at weddings. That would give me some me options.

Can I live without it? Yep. Would I prefer to have the option? Yep.

Astro

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2012, 03:39:38 PM »
I continue to find it interesting that the technical people of these forums (Canon Rumors, DPReview, FM, etc.) only focus on Fred's pictures of the shadows from the buildings.  I will be the first to say it is extremely impressive what Sony/Nikon has done with the sensor, but if you continue to read Fred's review and look at all of the pictures he takes for the articles, he points out some serious flaws in focus with the Nikon.

well this thread is about 5D MK3 sensor vs. D800 sensor so it should not suprise you.

we are not talking about the cameras in general here.

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2012, 04:16:11 PM »
When will this debate go away? The D800 has one heck of a sensor that can pull a staggering amount of shadow detail. Canon boys need to accept this and move along :) If it makes you feel bad, buy a D800.

Personally, I very rarely have the need to push the shadows that much, and the 5DIII is a better balanced machine for my needs. I just don't see why I should get upset about one aspect of camera performance (DR) that doesn't affect what I shoot all that much. Sure, more DR would be nice, but I can work around my Canon's limitations and the areas in which the 5DIII excels outweighs its DR disadvantage for my usage.

I understand that landscape photogs need all the DR they can get. I also understand that all of a sudden everyone seems to be a landscape photographer. Many of these self-proclaimed landscape photogs don't have portfolios or sample images that show how much their images would benefit from improved DR, but what do you expect on the internet ;D?

So if DR is that important to you - whether it's for practical reasons or just to placate your ego - admit that Canon is inferior at the moment, and buy yourself a D800 :)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 04:25:20 PM by V8Beast »

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2012, 04:16:11 PM »

smirkypants

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2012, 05:08:46 PM »
So if DR is that important to you - whether it's for practical reasons or just to placate your ego - admit that Canon is inferior at the moment, and buy yourself a D800 :)
I think it's important that we all bitch a bitch so that Canon hears loud and clear. DR is very important to me. I shoot people wearing helmets with brims during the mid-day sun. High DR means being able to turn dark shadows into colorful, natural-looking faces. Hell, just today I sold three photos where I pushed the hell out of the shadows and got really nice looking outdoor event shots that looked like portraits. This is actual money in my pocket that I would not have had shooting with a Canon, and I charge a bit for my photos. Unless you can control the light, there will always be situations where you need to bring color out of shadows.

I didn't even realize how important the extended DR was until just this week. Right now it's like a secret weapon for me. Don't kid yourself, this stuff is very important and Canon needs to wake up or more and more photographers will come to have the same epiphany I recently had.

I am now seriously considering selling all of my Canon gear.

hyles

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2012, 06:13:11 PM »
I think that the 2 camera are really different and aimed at different market. Canon probably was thinking that DR of 5DII was OK and looked for improvement in other areas.
It is allway been like that, with nikon having more DR and canon more suited for Hight ISO. Maybe increasing low ISO DR  would lead to loss something sowhere else and they just designed theire camera this way. They wanted their camera behave this way. If you really need LOW ISO DR... go for nikon, if you shoot always 800ISO and more go for canon. If you have a system... keep with wour brand.
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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2012, 06:13:11 PM »