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Author Topic: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda  (Read 26346 times)

dilbert

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2012, 09:38:24 AM »
the low ISO noise on the shadows on the 5DMK III is troubling. Why would this guy shoot mostly a drive way with the D800? I'm sort of dissapointed.

I guess he'll be waiting to see nikon's newly discovered upcoming 17mm TS, and 10mm f/4 lenses

http://nikonrumors.com/2012/04/27/nikon-patents-for-17mm-f4-tilt-and-shift-10mm-f4-16-30mm-f4-5-5-6-and-28mm-f1-4-lenses.aspx/

Quote
I am now seriously considering selling all of my Canon gear.

+1. I am selling once I know I can buy a D800. NO stock anywhere.

Well, the 5D Mark III is also not exactly easy to come by at present. It'll be interesting to see how that changes for both cameras over time.

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2012, 09:38:24 AM »

smirkypants

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2012, 09:40:07 AM »
I've downloaded and processed a number of 5D Mk III files, and I've been able to recover a massive amount of data from the shadows with no significant (certainly no unmanageable) noise penalty, and none of the 5D Mk II-style pattern noise the LuLa review managed to dig out.
It's night and day, Keith. I'm sorry, it really is. Once again, I'm not trying to just whine or complain needlessly... This is real world stuff here that affects my bottom line.

I'm attaching a file so that people can see. This is a picture I ended up selling. It was shot with a d800 and a 200-400/f4. This is a much smaller part of a larger picture, obviously. The top was the unprocessed raw file and the bottom was the detail brought out from the sunglasses. I have a 5D3, but it can't do this to nearly the same degree.

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2012, 06:56:03 PM »
more fuel:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/an_embarrassment_of_riches.shtml


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Image Quality-A Game Changer
 
I now have to report the exciting news:  For me the Nikon D800/D800E is a game changer.  Why?  Because it is the first 35 mm size camera that exceeds my threshold of image quality for exhibition prints. I have shot hundreds of tests, and in test after test the image quality is surprisingly good. The D800 delivers not just high resolution, but also outstanding dynamic range, extremely low noise and world class color accuracy and sensitivity. I would not hesitate to make 40 or even 50 inch wide exhibition prints from D800 files. Believe me, to go from a large format film view camera to a D800/800E for exhibition prints in a little over a decade is a bit shocking, but such is the incredible pace of innovation in our medium.
 
I believe that this camera represents the first product of a new era in digital photography.

if your interested in buying the D800 you should read the "However.........." part too.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 07:00:55 PM by Astro »

V8Beast

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2012, 07:14:33 PM »
more fuel:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/an_embarrassment_of_riches.shtml


From the same article:

"I have also noticed a similar effect when shooting handheld.  Shooting at the reciprocal of the focal length of the lens is not good enough-even with a VRII lens.  I would recommend multiplying the focal length of the lens times 3X and using the reciprocal of this number as the minimum shutter speed for maximum handheld quality."

Hey smirky, can you comment on this man's advice? I'd think that 2x the reciprocal would be plenty fast enough on the shutter speed to prevent camera-shake induced blur, but then again, I don't own a D800 :)

The engine shot in that article is pretty killer, and something I can relate to. Usually, to get shadow detail like that, I'm usually popping off-camera flashes and bouncing flash off a reflector.

That said, for hand-held action shots, I'm using holding open the shutter as long as possible, sometimes a 1/2 to 1/3 the reciprocal of the focal length, so obviously a D800 might not be the best tool for that job.

smirkypants

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2012, 07:24:30 PM »
Hey smirky, can you comment on this man's advice? I'd think that 2x the reciprocal would be plenty fast enough on the shutter speed to prevent camera-shake induced blur, but then again, I don't own a D800 :)

I guess his "however" boils down to "this camera is so good it'll prove how much you suck." Way to aim high. Seriously, that's what he came up with?

I think he has the shakes or something. I shoot a 7 pound lens and the d800 with battery grip and 8 batteries inside handheld, and I get dead sharp shots (as you can see by all the tiny details in the sunglasses... look at those colors! not just detail, colors!!).

Anyway, I shoot f4 and set the minimum shutter speed to 1/1600 and I'm fine... and that's with hauling over ten pounds. I guess if you're shooting in bad light you have to be more careful. If you drink too much coffee, maybe you should consider a different camera.

V8Beast

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2012, 08:46:04 PM »
Anyway, I shoot f4 and set the minimum shutter speed to 1/1600 and I'm fine... and that's with hauling over ten pounds. I guess if you're shooting in bad light you have to be more careful. If you drink too much coffee, maybe you should consider a different camera.

I do in fact drink too much coffee, but when shooting with IS glass and the 7D - which has even more pixel density than the D800 - I've found that the old 1x the reciprocal of the focal length rule is plenty for sharp images. This isn't the best example, or image for that matter, but I shot this at a 1/15 shutter speed out the back of a bouncy truck on a very bumpy road at 24mm. So once you take the crop factor into account, the shutter speed is 1/2 to 1/3x the reciprocal of the focal length. Sure it's not the most demanding subject in terms of gauging sharpness, but I had a hunch that recommending a shutter speed 3x faster than normal sounded a bit fishy.


risc32

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2012, 10:18:42 PM »
"In effect, what this means that even a photo of a blue sky and beach (no shadows or anything) is going to be cleaner on the D800 than the 5D3, even if the signal drowns it out."


Aren't you saying this is a problem, and it's in every picture? While I do have more Canon gear than other makes right now, I'm no fan boy. They have been on the back foot with Nikon since the D3. After a week or using my mk3 i've pulled the fuji 6x9 off the shelf. Or maybe i should use my pentax, graflex, or panasonic, or...

I think this competition is great. that sensor is great. Sure i see the shadow noise in these comparisons. it's an order of magnitude better on the nikon. Cool, I want that. Get to it Canon.

I can't help but wonder, once Sony gets a tighter grip on the market, would you want to be Nikon?

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2012, 10:18:42 PM »

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2012, 11:29:21 PM »
If you're accurately exposing - i.e. for the highlights in an image - why in the world would you need to push your shadows five stops?  When would you ever push shadows five stops?  Even if it did look "good" in terms of noise performance, you're essentially talking about an HDR image at that point.

...And then the conversation is over, because we're talking about HDR.

smirkypants

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2012, 11:37:22 PM »
If you're accurately exposing - i.e. for the highlights in an image - why in the world would you need to push your shadows five stops?  When would you ever push shadows five stops?  Even if it did look "good" in terms of noise performance, you're essentially talking about an HDR image at that point.

...And then the conversation is over, because we're talking about HDR.
No. You need to think about this rationally. I pointed the camera at a girl in broad daylight and exposed it properly. The top part of her face was black from the brim of the helmet. There is nothing any photographer can do to fix that absent artificial lighting without completely blowing out the background. I then gently applied the adjustment brush to the top of her face and recovered just that part of the photo. It's not HDR, it's more like dodging on steroids.

Call it what you will. I call it extra cash in my pocket.

V8Beast

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2012, 11:46:06 PM »
If you're accurately exposing - i.e. for the highlights in an image - why in the world would you need to push your shadows five stops?  When would you ever push shadows five stops?  Even if it did look "good" in terms of noise performance, you're essentially talking about an HDR image at that point.

...And then the conversation is over, because we're talking about HDR.
No. You need to think about this rationally. I pointed the camera at a girl in broad daylight and exposed it properly. The top part of her face was black from the brim of the helmet. There is nothing any photographer can do to fix that absent artificial lighting without completely blowing out the background. I then gently applied the adjustment brush to the top of her face and recovered just that part of the photo. It's not HDR, it's more like dodging on steroids.

Call it what you will. I call it extra cash in my pocket.

Are all polo chics that hot :)? Please post some more pics.

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2012, 12:05:57 AM »
Are all polo chics that hot :)? Please post some more pics.
Just one more. The sun was at her back and her face was completely in shadow. Absent off camera flash, this isn't possible without the extended dynamic range. Everything else about the photo was properly exposed. Of course I pumped up the saturation to fit with the "beach" theme. EXIF is there.

I made a lot of money this past weekend from extended dynamic range.

V8Beast

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2012, 12:11:02 AM »
I presume the answer is "yes."

I'm digging the shot. Nice color.

sarangiman

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2012, 02:05:12 AM »
Nice shots smirkypants!

I see banding even when pushing exposures 1.5-2 stops w/ my 5D Mark III. I'm actually switching to Nikon for the time being, b/c the lack of sensor improvement was the colloquial 'last straw' for me. 9-blade apertures standard on Nikon lenses & the 14-24 f/2.8 & the faster AF on the 85mm prime being the other major factors.

Since these cameras/lenses hold their value, the nice thing is that a switch doesn't cost too much monetarily. More so in terms of learning a new system/ergonomics, and I admit I like Canon ergonomics much better.

As well as their entire radio-triggered wireless flash setup with the 600EX-RT...

As well as their cross-type AF sensors all over their field.

As well as their Live View implementation.

As well as their... oh dangit!

WHAT DO I DO??

:)

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2012, 02:05:12 AM »

87vr6

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Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2012, 03:10:21 AM »
I shot a Stouffer Transmission Wedge (13.2 stops DR total) with a 5DII, 5DIII, & a D7000.

The 5DIII required 1/3EV less exposure than 5DII to keep any channel (meaning: green, since that blows first) from blowing out in the brightest patch of the wedge. The D7000 needed 2/3EV less exposure than 5DII (i.e. 1/3EV less exposure than 5DIII) to keep any channel from blowing out.

Well, I'm sure this ensures you pick the right camera for all those NatGeo contest winning Stouffer Transmission Wedge pictures everybody is clamoring for!! Call the NY times!! Wedge pictures here, get yer wedge pictures here!!

God pixel peepers are a joke. Ansel Adams surely never questioned this type of crap.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 03:12:17 AM by 87vr6 »

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« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2012, 04:25:35 AM »
On Friday I was allowed to use the D800, as the Institution I´m working at, is testing cameras (we need a lot of them for our photographers). The 5DMk3, we tested some days ago is very good, when you don´t have much light and you are not allowed to use an flashlight. But my heart stopped beating, when I saw the quality of the D800s pictures we took in the operating theatre, outside of the building (landsape,...) and shooting portraits. The quality is great! Really great! The product specialist of the selling company used lightroom to optimize the imagequality. But the result was amazing.
I took some pictures of flyinging birds around the builiding and landing helicopters. As the helicopters were approaching fast and I had just some seconds to take the shot, I can say, that the AF is very fast.

As I´m owning just Canon cameras, I´ll pray for an pedant from Canon (or an payable 7D MKII)

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Waiting for an big megapixelcamera from Canon
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2012, 04:25:35 AM »