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Author Topic: 5d3 not soft anymore?  (Read 16716 times)

RJSY

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2012, 08:04:12 AM »
hello,

been reading your posts, and noticed that all of you seem to be using LR as your raw converter. Why not give DPP a try???? I have LR myself but images from the mkIII just seem to come out better if converted to jpeg via DPP than with LR.... I don't exactly know why but it just seems that way

my 2 cents....

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2012, 08:04:12 AM »

Viggo

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2012, 08:10:58 AM »
hello,

been reading your posts, and noticed that all of you seem to be using LR as your raw converter. Why not give DPP a try???? I have LR myself but images from the mkIII just seem to come out better if converted to jpeg via DPP than with LR.... I don't exactly know why but it just seems that way

my 2 cents....

Thanks, I'll sure give it try, I was hoping Lr would be better with the RC2, but it wasn't...  :P

Edit: Tried DPP, but that software makes me want to kill somebody and I feel like I have no control, so skipped it... Hmm, also tried DxO, but same there. I guess I am waaay to used to Lr to ever use anything so much less useable...
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 11:40:24 AM by Viggo »
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jaayres20

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2012, 05:05:34 PM »
I had a 5D2 for over 3 years and now I own two 5D3s and I find the 5D3s to be very sharp.  When I use my 50mm 1.2 at f/2 it is too sharp for close portraits.  I always find myself taking the clarity down a little in LR to make them softer.  The 70-200 f/2.8L IS II is the same.  My two cameras were in the first or second round of shipping.  I got them in the end of March and early April.  I have never sat down and done an official test but after several photo shoots and 4000+ pictures at a wedding I am very satisfied.  And the best part is having so many of them in focus!   

tron

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2012, 05:22:27 PM »
hello,

been reading your posts, and noticed that all of you seem to be using LR as your raw converter. Why not give DPP a try???? I have LR myself but images from the mkIII just seem to come out better if converted to jpeg via DPP than with LR.... I don't exactly know why but it just seems that way

my 2 cents....


Thanks, I'll sure give it try, I was hoping Lr would be better with the RC2, but it wasn't...  :P

Edit: Tried DPP, but that software makes me want to kill somebody and I feel like I have no control, so skipped it... Hmm, also tried DxO, but same there. I guess I am waaay to used to Lr to ever use anything so much less useable...

Please do try the updated DPP. This is very serious and many may use your findings to base future decisions.

You don't have to use DPP in a sophisticated way. Just use it to compare in 100% the same photo shot with a 5D2 and 5D3 (and use LV to focus). Your previous photo could be a perfect example.

Viggo

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2012, 05:40:41 PM »
hello,

been reading your posts, and noticed that all of you seem to be using LR as your raw converter. Why not give DPP a try???? I have LR myself but images from the mkIII just seem to come out better if converted to jpeg via DPP than with LR.... I don't exactly know why but it just seems that way

my 2 cents....



Thanks, I'll sure give it try, I was hoping Lr would be better with the RC2, but it wasn't...  :P

Edit: Tried DPP, but that software makes me want to kill somebody and I feel like I have no control, so skipped it... Hmm, also tried DxO, but same there. I guess I am waaay to used to Lr to ever use anything so much less useable...


Please do try the updated DPP. This is very serious and many may use your findings to base future decisions.

You don't have to use DPP in a sophisticated way. Just use it to compare in 100% the same photo shot with a 5D2 and 5D3 (and use LV to focus). Your previous photo could be a perfect example.


I was kind of hoping someone else who have used DPP and Lr before to do this, I have no idea to know how to even make the images comparable. I tried this and that, but maaan does Canon have something to learn about usabillity of their raw-converter. I feel like I'm in a maze with no exit.....

Here's just imported and sharpened with the same settings, I have never seen Lr sharpen the image like DPP did, it is amazing! Wth??

But something tells me my DPP isn't the updated one, as it did an even worse job with the 5d3 file.. I'll see if I have to update, and try yet again..

« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 05:51:37 PM by Viggo »
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tron

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2012, 06:09:14 PM »
But something tells me my DPP isn't the updated one, as it did an even worse job with the 5d3 file.. I'll see if I have to update, and try yet again..

DPP level:  3.11.26.0

RJSY

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2012, 06:15:27 PM »
@ viggo  your DPP has to be 3.11.26 version and this does not come with the camera. it has to be downloaded. if you are using the DPP that came with the camera then images will come out soft. I do hope you give it a try and see the difference between using LR and DPP with MKIII

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2012, 06:15:27 PM »

tron

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2012, 06:19:47 PM »
You can try:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware

Then you select:

1. Operating System
2. OS Version
3. Software

Then you can download the  dpp updater...

Viggo

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2012, 06:34:49 PM »
Yeah, I just hadn't taken it out of the box before as I never intended to use it.

But here's the updated shots:



Wow, Adobe needs to get their act together.....
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tron

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2012, 06:41:14 PM »
Thank you VERY MUCH for your comparison photos. Now, these seem pretty much equal to me. As you said, now it's Adobe's turn...

Viggo

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2012, 06:48:33 PM »
Thank you VERY MUCH for your comparison photos. Now, these seem pretty much equal to me. As you said, now it's Adobe's turn...


No, problem, it was thanks to the tip of trying DPP from RJSY in the firstplace that made me even try it. And it seemed that it might not be the camera an AA filter and all the other suggestions after all. Now, this test isn't 100% conclusive, but it looks to be in the right direction.

I've stated this very early on when thedigitalpicture dude said there was a softness issue with the DPP software, that could it be that Adobe uses, at least some part, of the DPP to make their raw-supprto for the 5d3? So if DPP was soft, then Lr will be as well? Or is this very far fetched? Why do Adobe have the same issue?
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tron

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2012, 06:59:19 PM »
Thank you VERY MUCH for your comparison photos. Now, these seem pretty much equal to me. As you said, now it's Adobe's turn...


No, problem, it was thanks to the tip of trying DPP from RJSY in the firstplace that made me even try it. And it seemed that it might not be the camera an AA filter and all the other suggestions after all. Now, this test isn't 100% conclusive, but it looks to be in the right direction.

I've stated this very early on when thedigitalpicture dude said there was a softness issue with the DPP software, that could it be that Adobe uses, at least some part, of the DPP to make their raw-supprto for the 5d3? So if DPP was soft, then Lr will be as well? Or is this very far fetched? Why do Adobe have the same issue?

Interesting thought! Until we see an updated camera raw engine so as to compare the same 5D2 and 5d3 photos with the same settings I guess we cannot be sure 100%.

FrutigerSans

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2012, 08:13:19 PM »
Woah… Viggo thanks for the test.. This really seems to indicate that Adobe’s LR processing is the one at fault. Lets hope that 4.1 final will fix this! I’ll definitely keep an eye on this thread

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2012, 08:13:19 PM »

dafrank

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« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2012, 10:19:18 PM »
I just got my 5D Mark III last week on Thursday. Took me  a while to shoot some preliminary tests.

I've always been that rare professional that preferred DPP to Lightroom, mostly because I've had an image database program running in my studio since 1996, so that a big chunk of Lightroom is superfluous for me and, as to the actual heart of the program, the raw converter, I've found DPP to be at least as good, if not better at producing good 16 bit Tiffs, my file of choice, at least the one I start out with. Although Lightroom has more refined tools than DPP, the basic conversion is not always as good and the program itself is 10 times biiger with what seems to be unnecessary bloatware included. So, when testing my new cam, I wanted to use DPP, not Lightroom. I wrote Bryan Carnathan at the Digital Picture to ask him his opinion of the new version, 3.11.26.0, and whether it "solved" his softness issues with the 5D3 output. He very kindly mailed me back, saying that, yes it did. So, I used my updated copy of DPP to convert my tests. I also, just because I wanted to see what it could do, used the Digital Lens Optimizer on each file, found under the Lens tab in the tools pallette. I'm not sure how much more this Optimizer does than what is now automatically done in-camera in the 5D3, but I used it anyway, and didn't yet bother to compare results with it and without it.

My conclusion is a subjective comparison of these raw conversions with what I am used to getting with my now gone- but-not-forgotten 1Ds Mark III, not the 5D2. From what I know, the low ISO results from the 1Ds3 were, if anything, better than those from the 5D2.

Here are my observations. The 5D3 focusing system is better than that of my 1Ds3. It nailed static subjects (didn't yet try action) more precisely and with the 2 L lenses I tested, (24-70 f/2.8 and 16-35 f/2.8 v2), with no lens calibration. My tests were shot at f/4.0 and f/7.1, depending on the depth of field I needed. The files showed a small but significant gain in low ISO (shot at 200 ISO) DR. The exposure meter in Eval mode semed to give me uniformly better exposures without needing to "outsmart" it quite so often. The shutter release actually felt a little better and the seemed very slightly better dampened - a very unexpected result. The images were mostly quite sharp looking, but since my exposures today seemed to yield very narrow but nicely shaped "waves" that filled the center of the graph space but did not extend all the way to the shadow or highlight sides on the horizontal axis, they seemed to lack some contrast; this was, rather than some fault of the camera, rather the result of my exposure choices, (mostly) the existing light values, the default tone curve in DPP and the slightly better DR of the camera. In Photoshop, when I applied some very minor curves and then very minor low amount-higher radius-zero threshold unsharp mask to the image, the histograms spread out as far to the left and right as was appropriate and the image popped like a bubble gum ballon, without any visible artifacts. Most, if not all, of this could also have been accomplished in DPP or Lightroom, if you didn't happen to have Photoshop. Overall, the resulting files looked at least as sharp as any result I could have had with my old 1Ds3, and they have just a little bit more detail in them as well. Finally, the defringing and other functions in the Digital Lens Optimizer seemed to work so well that I can honestly say that it brought "new life" and a whiole new look to my sometimes chromatically challenged 16-35 f/2.8. It couldn't turn it into a Nikon 14-24, but it made it look a heck of a lot better.

I'll not be posting these, but I think I may have given you all a pretty good description of my own personal subjective findings. They're not scientificly rigorous, but they are backed up by my experience of over 16 years spent photographing, scanning and retouching digital files for very very high end commercial clients.

Regards,
David
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RJSY

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2012, 05:05:24 AM »
@ viggo... glad that you did give DPP a try. And by the looks of it you now seem somewhat happy with the results.

Actually I too was not very happy with the mkIII because of it's "softness" I learned that there was a problem with DPP so I turned to LR 4.1RC. I found LR to be a great raw converter with all the parameters you are able to adjust to get that perfect picture. But I was somewhat underwhelmed by the outcome of the pictures i took with the mkiii when processed with LR. I was thinking " is this it????" ...... But then I waited patiently for DPP to be "corrected" and sure enough when it came out, tried it and I instantly saw a world of difference in the conversion process... I guess you saw it too.....

maybe darknightnine could also give DPP a try and hopefully it will also somewhat "solve" his soft mkiii problem
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 05:22:03 AM by RJSY »

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Re: 5d3 not soft anymore?
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2012, 05:05:24 AM »