Canon Rebel T4i [CR2]

[xtaski]

I'm new to these forums, but what is wrong with the current T3i sensor? What could they do to make it better in the T4i? I just bought a T3i and was curious what issues people are aware of...

[mrdiger]

As owner of a Rebel XT, I think whatever is announced will be a big upgrade for me.  My issue is even when t4i is announced, is this the best choice?  Right now I am leaning to the Nikon 3200.  I would rather stay with Canon so I could keep my 2 lenses but Nikon's autofocus features and 24 MP sounds really good

Hi,
take a look at the D3200 preview on dpreview.com.
There is much more noise on D3200 than on the 600d, when your compare ISO 1600 or higher. Maybe, 24MP look only beautiful on the Nikon sample pics. 
Greetings
Marcus

[Marine03]

I'm new to these forums, but what is wrong with the current T3i sensor? What could they do to make it better in the T4i? I just bought a T3i and was curious what issues people are aware of...

I have a 450D but my understanding is that it's a 3? Year or older sensor it's starting to be surpassed by competitors and I think 800 is like make ISO for clean images.

[dstppy]

Excellent.

The 60D and 7D are in NO need of an update. 

If they bring a new sensor out for the 700D then there will be a need for update. The 60D needs updating to bring it back in line the XXD previously were. Was a disappointment for most XXD users. I agree with the 7D but then it would be nice to have a better sensor in it. I would buy it then. No point in buying something new for the IQ to be worse than previous models.

Honestly, a 7D with nothing more than the Digic V would be a notable improvement.  Not 'sell your 7D' improvement, but it would definitely be worth putting out if there was nothing else in the pipes.

From another thread:

Note that there are two 'flavors' - Digic5 and Digic5+.

The new Digic 5 processor is 6X faster and creates 75% less noise than the Digic 4 processor.

Compared with the predecessor, Canon's DIGIC 4 Image Processor, the Dual DIGIC 5+ Image Processor offers approximately 17x faster processing speed, and feature new algorithms that promote greater noise reduction at higher ISOs.

Looking back, they could easily get away with making a 70D that's only improvements were Digic5 and re-adding MFA . . .

[preppyak]

Yes, but the t4i has to be updated compared to the t3i, else why call it the next generation of rebel?  The t3i has a 3.7 fps burst rate.  Is it that big of a leap to give it 6fps? It would best the new Nikon offering.

Yes, that would be a huge increase, nearly doubling the fps. It would best the 60D, the 5dII, and put itself in line with the 5dIII or 7D...which are pro bodies that sell at more than double the price.

Remember, the Ti cameras are entry level; the point of crippling them a little is that people who need features (faster fps, lower iso, weather sealing, great AF) upgrade to a line that has them. If they make the T4i  better than the 60D and give it features that make it even close to the 7D, they'll have destroyed any upgrade path in the APS-C line. Who would buy a 60D if the T4i had a new sensor, did 6fps and had 19pt AF? Or a 7D for that matter? And what they'd have to upgrade the 60D/7D to to get sales back would be insane; they'd basically be an APS-C version of the 1DX, and for <$2000? Not happening.

I'd say new sensor, Digic V, little better fps (4-4.5), maybe slightly better AF system, and they'll use a variation of the video AF that Nikon has used for a while. And nobody who wants good video will use it, because the Nikon AF for video is terrible; similar to pressing the shutter button and letting it hunt. Their last update was a flip out screen, I'm not expecting miracles.

[stabmasterasron]

Yes, but the t4i has to be updated compared to the t3i, else why call it the next generation of rebel?  The t3i has a 3.7 fps burst rate.  Is it that big of a leap to give it 6fps? It would best the new Nikon offering.

Yes, that would be a huge increase, nearly doubling the fps. It would best the 60D, the 5dII, and put itself in line with the 5dIII or 7D...which are pro bodies that sell at more than double the price.

Remember, the Ti cameras are entry level; the point of crippling them a little is that people who need features (faster fps, lower iso, weather sealing, great AF) upgrade to a line that has them. If they make the T4i  better than the 60D and give it features that make it even close to the 7D, they'll have destroyed any upgrade path in the APS-C line. Who would buy a 60D if the T4i had a new sensor, did 6fps and had 19pt AF? Or a 7D for that matter? And what they'd have to upgrade the 60D/7D to to get sales back would be insane; they'd basically be an APS-C version of the 1DX, and for <$2000? Not happening.

I'd say new sensor, Digic V, little better fps (4-4.5), maybe slightly better AF system, and they'll use a variation of the video AF that Nikon has used for a while. And nobody who wants good video will use it, because the Nikon AF for video is terrible; similar to pressing the shutter button and letting it hunt. Their last update was a flip out screen, I'm not expecting miracles.

You are right.  Keep it simple.  And if I am upgrading from a p&s - the mirrorless looks a lot better to me.  Same specifications for the money (in some cases the mirrorless are better).  And it is smaller too - where do I sign up?  Of course I know the advantages of a larger body and the advantages of having lots of glass to choose from - but p&s upgraders may not.  So, did you read the rest of my post?  I asked the same question you did - if canon has to take the rebels upscale to distance themselves from the mirrorless - what does that do to the xxD line?  7D is already a mini 1Dmkiv for less than $2k. 

[preppyak]

So, did you read the rest of my post?  I asked the same question you did - if canon has to take the rebels upscale to distance themselves from the mirrorless - what does that do to the xxD line?  7D is already a mini 1Dmkiv for less than $2k.

I did, but I didn't want to leave too long a post. I think that's why we are hearing that the 7D might not get updated. In a way, Canon spread themselves too thin...too many options that are hard to differentiate and upgrade, especially with other companies pushing them. Also, the 7D is so reasonably priced for what they could have charged. I think the 70D will go back to what the 50D was, a nice body with some weather sealing, it'll have the FPS a sports guy needs, MFA, etc. And then maybe down the line Canon will push a 7Dii at a higher price point (think $2000+) with Dual Digic V and 8-10fps. But, the 5DIII can handle sports, it just lacks the APS-C reach for those lenses. Not sure how they'll handle that

What's made Canon so smart these last 6-8 months is how many people they got to buy T2i and T3i's because of sales, while Nikon sat on their defined retailer pricing. Means they can make a lot of money off lenses in the future. And right now, they are well ahead of the mirror less guys in the lens department. I know I didn't buy the A77 or NEX's (despite needing a small, light body) because my lens options were maybe 1/10th what they were for Canon.

[stabmasterasron]

So, did you read the rest of my post?  I asked the same question you did - if canon has to take the rebels upscale to distance themselves from the mirrorless - what does that do to the xxD line?  7D is already a mini 1Dmkiv for less than $2k.

I did, but I didn't want to leave too long a post. I think that's why we are hearing that the 7D might not get updated. In a way, Canon spread themselves too thin...too many options that are hard to differentiate and upgrade, especially with other companies pushing them. Also, the 7D is so reasonably priced for what they could have charged. I think the 70D will go back to what the 50D was, a nice body with some weather sealing, it'll have the FPS a sports guy needs, MFA, etc. And then maybe down the line Canon will push a 7Dii at a higher price point (think $2000+) with Dual Digic V and 8-10fps. But, the 5DIII can handle sports, it just lacks the APS-C reach for those lenses. Not sure how they'll handle that

What's made Canon so smart these last 6-8 months is how many people they got to buy T2i and T3i's because of sales, while Nikon sat on their defined retailer pricing. Means they can make a lot of money off lenses in the future. And right now, they are well ahead of the mirror less guys in the lens department. I know I didn't buy the A77 or NEX's (despite needing a small, light body) because my lens options were maybe 1/10th what they were for Canon.

Well, I think there are a sufficient number of people out there that have a need for a high quality aps-c body (7dmkii) that they would be able to sell lots of bodies if they play there cards right (especially if they can deliver dual digic 5 and 10fps for less than $2k).  But yes the mirrorless will continue to be a problem eroding sales on the bottom end.  It may squeeze the aps-c bodies into a tighter formation. 

[tomsop]

I am confused.  If the T4i is going to have slightly better ISO and FPS performance over the t3i and perhaps autofocus, if I am upgrading from a Rebel XT - should I go for the t4i or look higher up the line or should I be waiting to see what other cameras get upgraded.  In other words, should I wait or just get a different camera now?  I don't want to get a 7D if they are going to be upgrading that as well - I want better than XT but I also want to future proof my next purchase to a reasonable extent.

[stabmasterasron]

I am confused.  If the T4i is going to have slightly better ISO and FPS performance over the t3i and perhaps autofocus, if I am upgrading from a Rebel XT - should I go for the t4i or look higher up the line or should I be waiting to see what other cameras get upgraded.  In other words, should I wait or just get a different camera now?  I don't want to get a 7D if they are going to be upgrading that as well - I want better than XT but I also want to future proof my next purchase to a reasonable extent.

If you shoot primarily stills, the 7D is still a great buy and even if it is updated to mk ii, the original won't be "out of date" for many more years.

[D_Rochat]

I am confused.  If the T4i is going to have slightly better ISO and FPS performance over the t3i and perhaps autofocus, if I am upgrading from a Rebel XT - should I go for the t4i or look higher up the line or should I be waiting to see what other cameras get upgraded.  In other words, should I wait or just get a different camera now?  I don't want to get a 7D if they are going to be upgrading that as well - I want better than XT but I also want to future proof my next purchase to a reasonable extent.

I wouldn't hold off on buying a 7D just because they are due to replace it. We don't even have a CR1 on a 7D yet and who knows if/when they will be announced, let alone available for purchase. That being said, even if a replacement was anounced tomorrow, the 7D is still a great camera and is lightyears better than a Rebel XT. There's more to the 7D than just the "old" sensor.

It's hard to recommend an upgrade when I don't know what you like to shoot or how often, but anything being sold today will be a good upgrade. I personally wouldn't go from Rebel to Rebel and would at least shoot for a xxD, but my needs may be different that yours.

[elvan]

With such a huge delay, Canon should just kill the current design altogether. Digic 5 will not be of much help in the noise department for RAW shooters if the sensor is still the same. At the current rate, it would be smart for canon to keep the 550d (t2i) around even longer as the entry-level dslr, and release a significantly updated t4i with sensor upgrades from the next 7dmkii/70d when it becomes available. 

And since we're asking, I'm perfectly happy with the MP count in the current APS-C sensor, but it would be nice if the noise @ ISO 3200 behave more like it did @ ISO 800 in RAW.

[Lee Jay]

I don't know what they are doing, but here's what I'd try to do:

T4i - 20-22MP conventional sensor.
4fps
Continuous electronic (windowed) zoom in video activated by P&S-inspired zoom switch at the shutter release
Continuous video AF
1080/60p video option, 720/120p, 640/240p, 320/480p.
Smallest possible body, ergonomics be-damned.
T/S LCD
$799 body only/$899 with 18-55IS kit lens

70D - T4i in a 60D body
6fps
$1099 body only/$1199 with 18-55IS kit lens

7DII
24MP BSI sensor (small advantage over standard sensors, but some) with low read noise
Same video stuff as t4i
New 5DIII-inspired AF with at least one f/8 AF point in the center and 4 helper f/8 AF points around it
Still crop mode (1.4x - 12MP) activated by the video zoom switch
8fps in full-frame mode
12fps in 1.4x still crop mode
$1,999 body only at launch.

All three would have the new JPEG engine from the 1DX and 5DIII.

And the bonus feature - no more CR2 files.  DNG instead, with the ability to use the new lossy-compressed DNG mode which is far, far superior to M-raw and S-raw.  This way we can have instant compatibility with Lightroom at launch and a publicly-documented image format.

[Marsu42]

I wouldn't hold off on buying a 7D just because they are due to replace it. We don't even have a CR1 on a 7D yet and who knows if/when they will be announced, let alone available for purchase.

Since Canon is very secretive about upcoming products, if there is no [CRx] it doesn't mean anything - while it's a nice forum, imho your guess about new Canon releases is as good as mine or CR's. The best option is still to look at the timeline, it's pretty consistent lately: http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html#canon_age_chart

[D_Rochat]

I wouldn't hold off on buying a 7D just because they are due to replace it. We don't even have a CR1 on a 7D yet and who knows if/when they will be announced, let alone available for purchase.

Since Canon is very secretive about upcoming products, if there is no [CRx] it doesn't mean anything - while it's a nice forum, imho your guess about new Canon releases is as good as mine or CR's. The best option is still to look at the timeline, it's pretty consistent lately: http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html#canon_age_chart

I've seen these timelines before and it doesn't mean anything. Being that there is only one 7D, you can't judge when we'll see a new one by how long a previous model was out for. If the life span is anything like the 5D, I wouldn't expect to see or hear of one for at least another 6 months.

My point was not to hold your breath on a 7D replacement because it could be a while. It may never even come.