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Author Topic: The 5D Mark III Fix  (Read 35481 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2012, 07:57:44 PM »
Despite any quality control issues with the D800, it still poses a MASSIVE problem for Canon.
Canon's marketing AND tech departments must be sweating bullets, unless something big is on the way.

Lol. Really?!?  So, you've seen the sales figures?  By what margin is the D800 outselling the 5DIII?  Please...share all of your hard evidence.

In fact, I have yet to see anything even remotely convincing that anyone outside of the few but very vocal minority of DR-obsessed posters on forums like this even give a crap about this 'massive problem'. As I've pointed out elsewhere, from 2007 to 2010, Nikon soundly beat Canon for sensor DR and ISO performance, and during the same period, Canon gained market share while Nikon lost over 10% of the market.  So...it seems like Nikon has the 'massive problem' - and the fact that the D800 has 36 MP, with no meaningful boost in DR over the predecessor, and a reduction in high ISO performance, is a good indication that Nikon realized they were coming out the losers, and are now trying Canon's 'more MP are better' approach.

Regardless, you're assertions are clearly unfounded, and I suspect at this time next year, the sales figures will show that Canon is still #1 in dSLR sales, as they have been for the past several years (despite their 'massive' yet somehow nonexistent 'problem').  It's ok, though - most likely by then you and the rest of the minority will have tired of bashing the 5DIII's DR on Internet forums.  I sincerely hope you'll be out taking pictures with some camera - even if it's not the 5DIII that most of this DR-bashing minority never had any intention of buying. But realistically, I bet you'll still be here, bashing the DR or ISO noise or some other perceived 'problem' with the 1D X, T4i/650D, or whatever.  Whine on........
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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2012, 07:57:44 PM »

plutonium10

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2012, 08:07:33 PM »
Despite any quality control issues with the D800, it still poses a MASSIVE problem for Canon.
Canon's marketing AND tech departments must be sweating bullets, unless something big is on the way.

Lol. Really?!?  So, you've seen the sales figures?  By what margin is the D800 outselling the 5DIII?  Please...share all of your hard evidence.

In fact, I have yet to see anything even remotely convincing that anyone outside of the few but very vocal minority of DR-obsessed posters on forums like this even give a crap about this 'massive problem'. As I've pointed out elsewhere, from 2007 to 2010, Nikon soundly beat Canon for sensor DR and ISO performance, and during the same period, Canon gained market share while Nikon lost over 10% of the market.  So...it seems like Nikon has the 'massive problem' - and the fact that the D800 has 36 MP, with no meaningful boost in DR over the predecessor, and a reduction in high ISO performance, is a good indication that Nikon realized they were coming out the losers, and are now trying Canon's 'more MP are better' approach.

Regardless, you're assertions are clearly unfounded, and I suspect at this time next year, the sales figures will show that Canon is still #1 in dSLR sales, as they have been for the past several years (despite their 'massive' yet somehow nonexistent 'problem').  It's ok, though - most likely by then you and the rest of the minority will have tired of bashing the 5DIII's DR on Internet forums.  I sincerely hope you'll be out taking pictures with some camera - even if it's not the 5DIII that most of this DR-bashing minority never had any intention of buying. But realistically, I bet you'll still be here, bashing the DR or ISO noise or some other perceived 'problem' with the 1D X, T4i/650D, or whatever.  Whine on........

Ok, look. The 5D III is a great camera, as was the MK II. It has been selling like hotcakes while Nikon has trouble getting the D800 out the door. That is true and I will freely admit that. But I can't help feeling that Nikon is really pushing the performance with this new Sony sensor tech and that this could cause Canon a lot of headaches.

I'm not so much trying to bash the MK III but rather playing devil's advocate as a somewhat concerned Canon fan.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 08:13:16 PM by plutonium10 »
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DavidRiesenberg

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2012, 08:07:47 PM »
I wonder if Canon has considered buying Sony sensor tech and if Sony would/could even sell it to them given their relation with Nikon.

I don't think for a second that Canon do not have the capability of producing a sensor that does everything the Sony sensor can do or better.
The decision to spec the 5DIII the way it is was a pure marketing decision. And not a surprising one based on their position as market leaders in the segment. Could this decision backfire on them? Sure, but that only time will tell.
Now, on the same token, the decision to spec the D800 the way it is, is also a marketing decision. And that cannot be stressed enough. Nikon has no extra place in their hearts for photography and engineering anymore than Canon has. The decision to come out with a very big, headline grabbing product at a reasonable price is simply what they had to do in order to try to sway some Canon sales their way.
So basically each of them made the logical decision based on their market position. Who will come on top is yet to be determined, but personally I do hope it is Nikon. This way I win twice. Once because I am very happy with the 5D3 and twice when that means the 5D4 will be much better than otherwise.

Oh and another thing about Sony that hasn't been discussed enough IMO, is that financially they are in the shitter. I do wonder if and how this will affect the future of their business model. I don't have any data but they have been pushing very hard in the camera market at what I think is a substantial hit to their profitability . How long they can keep on doing it is a big question mark.

plutonium10

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2012, 08:15:53 PM »
Thank you for that actually. True words and it gives me a lot more faith in my future of investment in Canon glass.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 08:41:32 PM by plutonium10 »
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Razor2012

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2012, 08:17:41 PM »
Despite any quality control issues with the D800, it still poses a MASSIVE problem for Canon.
Canon's marketing AND tech departments must be sweating bullets, unless something big is on the way.

Lol. Really?!?  So, you've seen the sales figures?  By what margin is the D800 outselling the 5DIII?  Please...share all of your hard evidence.

In fact, I have yet to see anything even remotely convincing that anyone outside of the few but very vocal minority of DR-obsessed posters on forums like this even give a crap about this 'massive problem'. As I've pointed out elsewhere, from 2007 to 2010, Nikon soundly beat Canon for sensor DR and ISO performance, and during the same period, Canon gained market share while Nikon lost over 10% of the market.  So...it seems like Nikon has the 'massive problem' - and the fact that the D800 has 36 MP, with no meaningful boost in DR over the predecessor, and a reduction in high ISO performance, is a good indication that Nikon realized they were coming out the losers, and are now trying Canon's 'more MP are better' approach.

Regardless, you're assertions are clearly unfounded, and I suspect at this time next year, the sales figures will show that Canon is still #1 in dSLR sales, as they have been for the past several years (despite their 'massive' yet somehow nonexistent 'problem').  It's ok, though - most likely by then you and the rest of the minority will have tired of bashing the 5DIII's DR on Internet forums.  I sincerely hope you'll be out taking pictures with some camera - even if it's not the 5DIII that most of this DR-bashing minority never had any intention of buying. But realistically, I bet you'll still be here, bashing the DR or ISO noise or some other perceived 'problem' with the 1D X, T4i/650D, or whatever.  Whine on........

Ok, look. The 5D III is a great camera, as was the MK II. It has been selling like hotcakes while Nikon has trouble getting the D800 out the door. That is true and I will freely admit that. But I can't help feeling that Nikon is really pushing the performance with this new Sony sensor tech and that this could cause Canon a lot of headaches.

Agree with the first half but honestly, I don't think it's going to cause Canon alot of headaches.   Both cameras are great, one leans towards group A, the other B.  It's been back and forth for a while now, this won't be any different.  Canon will counter, then Nikon.
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briansquibb

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #155 on: May 04, 2012, 08:22:36 PM »
As good as the D800 is, it doesn't help Nikon if they can't get them into people's hands. Now, Nikon always had a more problematic supply issue compared to Canon and the latest crop of problems are probably not helping much.

Agreed. But If Canon doesn't step up their game on DR and ISO, I might actually do the unthinkable and buy a Nikon at some point in the future. I shoot landscape and DR is the single most important thing to me even though I prefer the feel, ergonomics and just plain "Canonosity" of Canon cameras. I wonder if Canon has considered buying Sony sensor tech and if Sony would/could even sell it to them given their relation with Nikon.

Back to the same old rubbish of DR and ISO knocking. Give it a rest - it seems to be in every thread - what percentage can actually say they regularly take pictures with a DR of 10 or more. I struggle with the 1DS3 to get to 10 so how many actually hit 14 (if the D800 can in real life do that)

plutonium10

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #156 on: May 04, 2012, 08:32:16 PM »
Am I not correct in thinking that the 1Ds3 has better DR than the 5D III? In any case I stand corrected, but still a little perplexed. On paper, my 7D (despite it's not-impressive ISO performance) has the same DR as the mk III (or so says DxO). In practice is this not the case?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 08:49:14 PM by plutonium10 »
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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #156 on: May 04, 2012, 08:32:16 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #157 on: May 04, 2012, 08:45:05 PM »
Ok, look. The 5D III is a great camera, as was the MK II. It has been selling like hotcakes while Nikon has trouble getting the D800 out the door. That is true and I will freely admit that.

Ok, then, so how exactly does Canon have a 'MASSIVE problem' (your words and emphasis)?  My turn to be perplexed...
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plutonium10

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #158 on: May 04, 2012, 08:53:08 PM »
Ok, look. The 5D III is a great camera, as was the MK II. It has been selling like hotcakes while Nikon has trouble getting the D800 out the door. That is true and I will freely admit that.

Ok, then, so how exactly does Canon have a 'MASSIVE problem' (your words and emphasis)?  My turn to be perplexed...

Once the D800 does reach widespread availability, how will the sales figures look compared to the mk III? Hard to say, I guess. But that's not exactly to the point because I'm looking at this more from a technology point of view than a sales point of view. THAT's where I see the problem.
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plutonium10

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #159 on: May 04, 2012, 08:57:06 PM »
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neuroanatomist

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #160 on: May 04, 2012, 09:06:49 PM »
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/04/19/dxomark-verdict-nikon-d800-95-canon-5d-mark-iii-81.aspx/

This is the article that got me worried BTW.

Right. DxO scores the sensor. So, which is a better computer - a Core i7 with 2 GB of RAM, a 40 GB HDD and a floppy drive, or a Core i5 with 16 GB of RAM, a 512 GB SSD and a Blu-Ray optical drive?  I know which I'd pick to convert my RAW files.  See how looking at only one feature is misleading?

The technology point of view isn't really relevant, except in the realm of esoteric comparisons.  Ok, Sony's sensors may be technologically better. Guess what? Betamax was a technologically superior format compared to VHS.  What ever happened to Betamax, anyway?
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plutonium10

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #161 on: May 04, 2012, 09:21:22 PM »
I'll admit that you make a convincing point. My main concern is wether or not I should continue investing in Canon glass with the eventual plan of buying a 5D III when for the first time a Nikon camera has made me question my loyalty to the EOS system. Despite the fact that I still see the D800 as a more advanced camera (the Ivy Bridge to Canon's Sandy Bridge, to continue your computer analogy), I've heard enough today to be reassured.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 09:23:11 PM by plutonium10 »
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Razor2012

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #162 on: May 04, 2012, 09:45:37 PM »
I'll admit that you make a convincing point. My main concern is wether or not I should continue investing in Canon glass with the eventual plan of buying a 5D III when for the first time a Nikon camera has made me question my loyalty to the EOS system. Despite the fact that I still see the D800 as a more advanced camera (the Ivy Bridge to Canon's Sandy Bridge, to continue your computer analogy), I've heard enough today to be reassured.

Hmmm I don't know, would you leave your wife for another pretty face that came along?
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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #162 on: May 04, 2012, 09:45:37 PM »

plutonium10

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #163 on: May 05, 2012, 02:47:32 AM »
I'll admit that you make a convincing point. My main concern is wether or not I should continue investing in Canon glass with the eventual plan of buying a 5D III when for the first time a Nikon camera has made me question my loyalty to the EOS system. Despite the fact that I still see the D800 as a more advanced camera (the Ivy Bridge to Canon's Sandy Bridge, to continue your computer analogy), I've heard enough today to be reassured.

Hmmm I don't know, would you leave your wife for another pretty face that came along?

It's a practial question of investing in a system of lenses or not. I don't see the problem wth that.
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Razor2012

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #164 on: May 05, 2012, 09:53:41 AM »
I'll admit that you make a convincing point. My main concern is wether or not I should continue investing in Canon glass with the eventual plan of buying a 5D III when for the first time a Nikon camera has made me question my loyalty to the EOS system. Despite the fact that I still see the D800 as a more advanced camera (the Ivy Bridge to Canon's Sandy Bridge, to continue your computer analogy), I've heard enough today to be reassured.

Hmmm I don't know, would you leave your wife for another pretty face that came along?

It's a practial question of investing in a system of lenses or not. I don't see the problem wth that.

Well I guess you could sell all of your glass and start over.  Then what happens if Canon's next camera makes you question your loyalty again?
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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #164 on: May 05, 2012, 09:53:41 AM »