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Author Topic: The 5D Mark III Fix  (Read 34061 times)

steven63

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #75 on: May 03, 2012, 11:08:09 AM »
I've been around long enough to remember the 1dmIII focus issues.  As I recall very few if any, photographers would have been affected by that.  Yet, it became an issue and trying to sell the camera required that you list the serial # to show whether or not it was an affected unit.

Now we have this.

I have little doubt the camera will perform flawlessly with the tape.  And I have less doubt anybody would have ever been affected by the issue had it never been discovered.  However, I 100% certain Canon will NOT incorporate the tape as a permanent solution and keep it in the next generation camera. 

It is an engineering design flaw.  Period.  Deny that would you?

The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape.  Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care.  But now I KNOW.  Ignorance is bliss, I guess.  And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape.  Thank you very much.


plutonium10

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #76 on: May 03, 2012, 11:09:33 AM »
Don't come on here and try to convince us mere mortals that this is sufficient and 'don't open your computers' because there is tape all inside it.  You know what?  I have opened my computer...I build my own computers and THERE ISN'T A STITCH OF TAPE ANYWHERE INSIDE IT.  Not one small piece.

The reason why there's no tape in your computer is because a desktop computer is a modular system designed to be put together with interchangable plug-and-play parts. I've taken apart laptops and found (the horror!) tape inside, because these are designed to be compact and lightweight, sometimes using soldered or integrated connections in locations where a desktop tower would instead use a user-friendly but more bulky multi-pin connector.

The 5D mk III is meant to be a sealed unit with no parts interchangeability, so the circuitry and wiring is assembled a little differently, including the use of tape.

Edit: Ya, you're 100% right about the "ignorance is bliss" factor. After I calculated how much strain is put on the pistons and rods of a car engine, I spent weeks expecting to see a piston come flying through the hood as I drove along.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 11:18:40 AM by plutonium10 »
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steven63

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #77 on: May 03, 2012, 11:12:27 AM »
Sounds like u regret not getting a better education or something...

My level of education, while beyond the average, is not the issue here.  The psychology blog is on another site.  Would you like to contribute something more substantial to the debate about cameras?


shockwave1111

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2012, 11:26:04 AM »
I've been around long enough to remember the 1dmIII focus issues.  As I recall very few if any, photographers would have been affected by that.  Yet, it became an issue and trying to sell the camera required that you list the serial # to show whether or not it was an affected unit.

Now we have this.

I have little doubt the camera will perform flawlessly with the tape.  And I have less doubt anybody would have ever been affected by the issue had it never been discovered.  However, I 100% certain Canon will NOT incorporate the tape as a permanent solution and keep it in the next generation camera. 

It is an engineering design flaw.  Period.  Deny that would you?

The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape.  Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care.  But now I KNOW.  Ignorance is bliss, I guess.  And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape.  Thank you very much.

I think your expectation is not inline with the price you are paying. Although I get your point that you want great engineering for the product for $3500, you are expecting perfect engineering beyond the expected use of the product. To achieve that, you won't be paying $3500 but more like $7000 (or beyond) to have all the test cases, even situation the camera isn't intend to do like taking pictures with the lens cap on, addressed.

What is next? Do we need a solution for taking pictures of the sun without filters? Or does it work in zero vacuum environment? Do we reasonably expect the product to perform outside of the specification?

daniel_charms

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #79 on: May 03, 2012, 11:36:36 AM »
The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape.  Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care.  But now I KNOW.  Ignorance is bliss, I guess.  And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape.  Thank you very much.

If we call this apparent non-issue a "design flaw", we might just as well call the piece of tape something else as well. Something more sophisticated, like "anti-static photon-blocker". That is to say, Canon fixed the design flaw by adding an anti-static photon-blocker to the design of the top LCD.

steven63

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #80 on: May 03, 2012, 11:40:17 AM »
I've been around long enough to remember the 1dmIII focus issues.  As I recall very few if any, photographers would have been affected by that.  Yet, it became an issue and trying to sell the camera required that you list the serial # to show whether or not it was an affected unit.

Now we have this.

I have little doubt the camera will perform flawlessly with the tape.  And I have less doubt anybody would have ever been affected by the issue had it never been discovered.  However, I 100% certain Canon will NOT incorporate the tape as a permanent solution and keep it in the next generation camera. 

It is an engineering design flaw.  Period.  Deny that would you?

The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape.  Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care.  But now I KNOW.  Ignorance is bliss, I guess.  And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape.  Thank you very much.

I think your expectation is not inline with the price you are paying. Although I get your point that you want great engineering for the product for $3500, you are expecting perfect engineering beyond the expected use of the product. To achieve that, you won't be paying $3500 but more like $7000 (or beyond) to have all the test cases, even situation the camera isn't intend to do like taking pictures with the lens cap on, addressed.

What is next? Do we need a solution for taking pictures of the sun without filters? Or does it work in zero vacuum environment? Do we reasonably expect the product to perform outside of the specification?

I have to disagree.  $3500 for a camera is a lot of money.  And correct me if I am wrong, but did the 5dmii have a light leak issue?  That camera cost less when it was introduced.

I do agree with you on the point that our expectations, in some cases, are beyond the norm.  BUT, that is the way of the consumer world and competition allows such high expectations:  If Canon doesn't build it better someone else will, and eventually Canon with either have to raise its standards or go out of business. 

Again, I think the original issue is small.  I think the fix is appalling (as a consumer).  I also think my expectations are high - but it's my money and I can be that way.  I don't like somebody (engineer or otherwise) telling me to get over it/get passed it.  Sorry, I'd rather have the company rise to the expectation of the customer and make the product worth the money they are asking for it.

In the case of the 5dmiii, I'll wait until either they resolve the tape issue (I see it as a temporary solution) and engineer the product so it doesn't require tape to keep light out, or I'll look elsewhere.  It really is that simple for me.

Razor2012

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #81 on: May 03, 2012, 11:46:06 AM »
I'm just curious now.  Let's say the 'black tape' was always there, and in a few instances the tape was left out.  Now would people still look at the tape as being 'cheap' or take it as just being missed in the assembly line and think nothing of it?
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Invertalon

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #82 on: May 03, 2012, 12:10:25 PM »

Ya know I'm getting a bit fed up with all the "engineers" touting that this fix is standard throughout the electronics industry and that we, as consumers, should just deal with it.  Well to you I say "stick it where the sun doesn't shine."

Yes I understand you have spent a lot of money and time and sweat on your education and I'm just a poor blue-collar shmuck.  I know you have a pretty plaque on the wall that 'says' you know what you are doing.  You might even have a sticker on your drivers license to help you convince the cops you are smart.  So what.

Don't come on here and try to convince us mere mortals that this is sufficient and 'don't open your computers' because there is tape all inside it.  You know what?  I have opened my computer...I build my own computers and THERE ISN'T A STITCH OF TAPE ANYWHERE INSIDE IT.  Not one small piece.

What you guys are trying to do is, convince the consumer that your way of doing things is sufficient and that our wee-bit of knowlege on the matter is laughable.  Shall we revisit your way of doing things?  1.  Do it cheaply.  2. Do is sufficiently 3. Do it 'just enough' to make it work.  4.  Hope the customer doesn't find out that your company charges a premium for such a mickey mouse fix.  5. Collect a paycheck and straighten the plaque on the wall.

Well I got news for you guys.  It's the consumer that decides whether it's good enough.  WE decide with our pocketbooks.  YOU get to go redesign it if WE tell you it isn't. 

I work with engineers everyday.  Not in the electronics field, but the manufacturing field.  And I'm here to tell you, you guys F@#* stuff up more than you help.  Constant rework and on the fly fixes by the guy without the degree while the guy with the degree looks down smugly over his glasses and his CATIA program; never actually putting things together. 

Tape.  That's the fix for a $3500.00 camera light leak issue.  Personally I'm disgusted and as consumers we shouldn't have to settle for it.

They couldn't design it correctly to begin with, so they hot patched it.  And you engineer types claim we should be thrilled. 

Just one question:  If you engineer types are so smart why the heck does the camera need to be fixed with tape to correct how it was engineered?

U MAD BRO?

Wow, somebody is extremely bitter about something... Having worked on the largest aluminum forging presses in the world to working on military and commercial airfoils all the way to high precision medical CT, MRI and PET equipment, you would be surprised how much stuff gets "overlooked" and requires simple repairs you will never see. You are complaining about some tape in a camera to simply act as a light shield? Seriously?

Get over yourself.

steven63

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2012, 12:17:37 PM »

Ya know I'm getting a bit fed up with all the "engineers" touting that this fix is standard throughout the electronics industry and that we, as consumers, should just deal with it.  Well to you I say "stick it where the sun doesn't shine."

Yes I understand you have spent a lot of money and time and sweat on your education and I'm just a poor blue-collar shmuck.  I know you have a pretty plaque on the wall that 'says' you know what you are doing.  You might even have a sticker on your drivers license to help you convince the cops you are smart.  So what.

Don't come on here and try to convince us mere mortals that this is sufficient and 'don't open your computers' because there is tape all inside it.  You know what?  I have opened my computer...I build my own computers and THERE ISN'T A STITCH OF TAPE ANYWHERE INSIDE IT.  Not one small piece.

What you guys are trying to do is, convince the consumer that your way of doing things is sufficient and that our wee-bit of knowlege on the matter is laughable.  Shall we revisit your way of doing things?  1.  Do it cheaply.  2. Do is sufficiently 3. Do it 'just enough' to make it work.  4.  Hope the customer doesn't find out that your company charges a premium for such a mickey mouse fix.  5. Collect a paycheck and straighten the plaque on the wall.

Well I got news for you guys.  It's the consumer that decides whether it's good enough.  WE decide with our pocketbooks.  YOU get to go redesign it if WE tell you it isn't. 

I work with engineers everyday.  Not in the electronics field, but the manufacturing field.  And I'm here to tell you, you guys F@#* stuff up more than you help.  Constant rework and on the fly fixes by the guy without the degree while the guy with the degree looks down smugly over his glasses and his CATIA program; never actually putting things together. 

Tape.  That's the fix for a $3500.00 camera light leak issue.  Personally I'm disgusted and as consumers we shouldn't have to settle for it.

They couldn't design it correctly to begin with, so they hot patched it.  And you engineer types claim we should be thrilled. 

Just one question:  If you engineer types are so smart why the heck does the camera need to be fixed with tape to correct how it was engineered?

U MAD BRO?

Wow, somebody is extremely bitter about something... Having worked on the largest aluminum forging presses in the world to working on military and commercial airfoils all the way to high precision medical CT, MRI and PET equipment, you would be surprised how much stuff gets "overlooked" and requires simple repairs you will never see. You are complaining about some tape in a camera to simply act as a light shield? Seriously?

Get over yourself.

Why is it everyone who thinks they are somebody has to start out by listing their credentials?  Got an e-peen issue?

I am, at the very least, fed up with people who consider themselves 'experts' in the matter, espousing their displeasure with anyone else who finds the issue to be a substandard solution.  Especially when it's my dollars that they are attempting to win.  They can go jump off a cliff. 

You? Well you can put your headphones back on and log onto WoW and type 'U MAD BRO' like all the other 12 year olds, to your hearts content.


llcanon

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2012, 12:26:13 PM »
In the case of the 5dmiii, I'll wait until either they resolve the tape issue (I see it as a temporary solution) and engineer the product so it doesn't require tape to keep light out, or I'll look elsewhere.  It really is that simple for me.

I don't think you will ever be able to find out what's in your camera unless you open it up. Canon may use something else later as the "fix" (probably even cheaper) but I don't think they will tell you. And I doubt our wonderful LensRental guys would open up one for each batch of 5D3's received from Canon just to find out what the fix is.  So your only choice to look elsewhere - maybe D800??

Poor Canon.

thepancakeman

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #85 on: May 03, 2012, 12:35:46 PM »
Canon should use tape to fix the real problem here...   :P

Now the engineer that can design and patent THAT fix will be a wealthy individual!

bp

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #86 on: May 03, 2012, 12:38:59 PM »
Steven, good god - sell all you gear and buy a nikon.  Just don't EVER open it up because they use the same kind of shielding in several places as well.  This was already pointed out.  Great, you build computers, congrats - do you frequently take apart laptops?  Apparently not.  I have ZERO credentials to spout, I'm not an engineer, but I am a dumb tinkerer, and this is not surprising to me in the least.  I do, however, own a 5D Mark III, and I'm not in the least bit bothered by this fix.  I DID shell out $3500.  According to your signature, you don't even own a 5d3, so what the hell are you so worked up about?
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thepancakeman

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #87 on: May 03, 2012, 12:44:48 PM »
Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

Pretty sure if that were true there would be a lot more blissful people out there.   ::)

shockwave1111

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #88 on: May 03, 2012, 01:00:28 PM »
I've been around long enough to remember the 1dmIII focus issues.  As I recall very few if any, photographers would have been affected by that.  Yet, it became an issue and trying to sell the camera required that you list the serial # to show whether or not it was an affected unit.

Now we have this.

I have little doubt the camera will perform flawlessly with the tape.  And I have less doubt anybody would have ever been affected by the issue had it never been discovered.  However, I 100% certain Canon will NOT incorporate the tape as a permanent solution and keep it in the next generation camera. 

It is an engineering design flaw.  Period.  Deny that would you?

The problem here is, I KNOW about the tape.  Had I never known about the tape I wouldn't care.  But now I KNOW.  Ignorance is bliss, I guess.  And I am not interested in plunking down $3500 for a piece of equipment with a design flaw fixed by tape.  Thank you very much.

I think your expectation is not inline with the price you are paying. Although I get your point that you want great engineering for the product for $3500, you are expecting perfect engineering beyond the expected use of the product. To achieve that, you won't be paying $3500 but more like $7000 (or beyond) to have all the test cases, even situation the camera isn't intend to do like taking pictures with the lens cap on, addressed.

What is next? Do we need a solution for taking pictures of the sun without filters? Or does it work in zero vacuum environment? Do we reasonably expect the product to perform outside of the specification?

I have to disagree.  $3500 for a camera is a lot of money.  And correct me if I am wrong, but did the 5dmii have a light leak issue?  That camera cost less when it was introduced.

I do agree with you on the point that our expectations, in some cases, are beyond the norm.  BUT, that is the way of the consumer world and competition allows such high expectations:  If Canon doesn't build it better someone else will, and eventually Canon with either have to raise its standards or go out of business. 

Again, I think the original issue is small.  I think the fix is appalling (as a consumer).  I also think my expectations are high - but it's my money and I can be that way.  I don't like somebody (engineer or otherwise) telling me to get over it/get passed it.  Sorry, I'd rather have the company rise to the expectation of the customer and make the product worth the money they are asking for it.

In the case of the 5dmiii, I'll wait until either they resolve the tape issue (I see it as a temporary solution) and engineer the product so it doesn't require tape to keep light out, or I'll look elsewhere.  It really is that simple for me.

So the question should be if the product is worth the money they are asking for. I guess you can also think of it this way. If you can get the D4 or 1DX for $3500, do you think that is cheap? If you get the D4 with a tape fix, is it unacceptable because you paid $3500 (which is a lot of money for a camera)?

I think most people will take the D4/1DX with the tape because the product is worth more then what they are pay for even with the tape solution.  Your issue is only a relative because you think a high price product should be free of any significant and insignificant flaws. But for the price point of the 5DIII, it should be reasonable.

hhelmbold

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Re: The 5D Mark III Fix
« Reply #89 on: May 03, 2012, 01:08:22 PM »
I am wondering if the risk of opening up the camera and affecting the original weather sealing is worth it, for a problem which in truth doesn't alter exposure on 99.99% of the images I am ever likely to take.

I have to agree with this... there is just something "different" about a brand new camera once it is opened up for surgery and in this case, cosmetic surgery. The issue is a result of someone trying to find fault with a perfect camera.