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Author Topic: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)  (Read 15540 times)

kdsand

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2012, 11:28:42 AM »
Step 1:  Release 5D Mark III

Sounds a lot better than collecting underpants...   ;D

 Better than a panty raid?
 ???
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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2012, 11:28:42 AM »

traveller

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2012, 11:33:04 AM »
Quote
It is like comparing a Fiat to a nice BMW when it comes to DR!

Just a piece of advice. Obscure references don't work very well as analogies. I have no idea if a Fiat is better or worse than a BMW.  Nor do I care. But then again, I don't really care whether a Canon 5DIII or a Nikon D800 scores higher on some equally obscure, arbitrary test.

FYI - Fiat own Ferrari...  ;D

neuroanatomist

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2012, 11:34:20 AM »
Step 1:  Release 5D Mark III


Sounds a lot better than collecting underpants...   ;D


 Better than a panty raid?
 ???


FWIW, it was a South Park reference.  Read more, if you care...

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« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 11:35:58 AM by neuroanatomist »
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unfocused

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2012, 11:54:03 AM »
Quote
It is like comparing a Fiat to a nice BMW when it comes to DR!

Just a piece of advice. Obscure references don't work very well as analogies. I have no idea if a Fiat is better or worse than a BMW.  Nor do I care. But then again, I don't really care whether a Canon 5DIII or a Nikon D800 scores higher on some equally obscure, arbitrary test.

FYI - Fiat own Ferrari...  ;D

Ha! Thanks. I guess that helps. I know both are better than my 2000 Ford F150. On the other hand, if there is eight inches of snow outside, my 4x4 Truck is probably going to do better than either. Which is kind of the point with cameras: test results are nice, but what makes a difference is how you use it and what you personally need.
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kdsand

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2012, 11:58:31 AM »
Step 1:  Release 5D Mark III


Sounds a lot better than collecting underpants...   ;D


 Better than a panty raid?
 ???


FWIW, it was a South Park reference.  Read more, if you care...

The Gnomes' Business Plan:




 8)
 "I see" said the blind man
as he picked up his hammerand saw
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 12:02:00 PM by kdsand »
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briansquibb

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2012, 12:17:17 PM »
Resolution and DR are obviously well behind the D800 but neither are "very bad" in objective terms and I think its easy to see many users not having an issue with these.

Equally I think its easy to see many users needing the 5D3's higher FPS, higher ISO performance, better Jpeg's and much better mid ISO video perfromance.

The big issue is I'd say that the people who want these things tend to be pro's who do not spend there time posting on net forums as much as amatures who may not even be looking ti buy a FF DSLR dispite spending alot of time commenting on them.

I can just imagine a pro that specialises in the budget end of the family portrait market (like I seem to get when they have zero budget) getting really hot under the collar about IQ from issues caused by noise and low DR when printing out their 7x5 family pictures at 100iso. Well I guess not then .....
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CanonLITA

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2012, 02:51:34 PM »
FYI - Fiat own Ferrari...  ;D


So what? BMW own Rolls Royce..

Ha! Thanks. I guess that helps. I know both are better than my 2000 Ford F150. On the other hand, if there is eight inches of snow outside, my 4x4 Truck is probably going to do better than either. Which is kind of the point with cameras: test results are nice, but what makes a difference is how you use it and what you personally need.


Heavy + big wheels + snow = abandon ship!

Certain xdrive BMW are probably going to do better, while the Fiat Campagnola (www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=893&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=iveco+campagnola&btnG=) or even Panda (www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=893&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=fiat+panda+4x4&btnG=) are certainly going to do better.

Which is exactly the point with cameras. At the customer product level is not the company's capability that shape the product: if you want a Ferrari that beats an F150 on the snow, they could easily make it (actually, they did: www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=893&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=ferrari+ff&btnG=). The point being, companies produce what they think is more profitable to them (short and long term profitability are two different animals, granted), and not what is best for the customers or what is the best they can do. And this is because finance/business people are in charge, not the engineers (which is good since companies should stay in business to begin with). Then again, when they will be asked to build the new Hubble telescope things may change.

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2012, 02:51:34 PM »

V8Beast

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2012, 03:01:44 PM »
Here's my crazy theory.

Canon released the 5DIII in its current state because it conducted extensive market research on what its largest segment of potential buyers wanted in a camera. They then prioritized specifications of the 5DIII targeted at that market, and built it to attract those buyers. I know, it' a crazy idea ;D
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 04:05:28 PM by V8Beast »

Marsu42

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2012, 03:27:04 PM »
Here's my crazy theory.

The 5d3 always reminds me of a Simpsons episode: Homer is hired to design the perfect family car, and the car company's boss tells his techs to shut up and do everything Homer says because what the customers want is certainly what they'll buy, right? The result is a car that is indeed crazy and the company is broke.

So Canon did everything their customers wanted, even included the 1dx's af though at a slower speed. And since it's everything everyone asked for, 3500$ is a fair price, isn't it? But obviously there are even many Canon fans who aren't happy, Canon marketing should have watched more Simpsons.

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2012, 03:33:28 PM »
Here's my crazy theory.

Canon released the 5DIII in its current state because it conducted extensive market research on what it's largest segment of potential buyers wanted in a camera. They the prioritized specifications of the 5DIII targeted at that market, and built it to attract those buyers. I know, it' a crazy idea ;D


How absurd!!! no large company would ever do this!!!!! (sarcasm!)  heheheheheh


I think the proper word for all of this nonsense is hyperbole!  "Hyperboles are exaggerations to create emphasis or effect. As a literary device, hyperbole is often used in poetry, and is frequently encountered in casual speech. An example of hyperbole is: "The bag weighed a ton."[3] Hyperbole helps to make the point that the bag was very heavy, although it is not probable that it would actually weigh a ton."

This is very evident here -

If you are going to spend $3500 at least spend it on a worth-while body! Otherwise, stick with $500 cameras capable of raw - you will get the same IQ as the Canon 5D MKIII when it comes to noise, and DR.

It is beyond pathetic how some people can find reasons to justify their purchase! It is a bad purchase at that price! Something like that should have been priced at $2500, and they should have reduced the cost of 5D MKII to about $1800 - but they got greedy! Hiked the price of MKII by about $300 here in Canada!

I am not a stupid customer and will not budge just because they have a new body! Screw them! I am going to wait until the price for the quality is worthwhile. I am happy with my 40D which has better IQ than the 50D and 60D with the lenses I have!


there are many other examples here, even the person who sited this - http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/ , a three page review that talks about both camera's.  Conveniently though, the only page that person seemed to read there was page 2, and the only thing they noticed was the shadow grab.  I don't think the test was even a fair one at all - they upsized the mk3 file to match the res of the d800, then did 100% crops?  Thats not apples to apples at all.  aside from that bit on page 2, there were more images posted from the canon, and the reviewer even spoke of mostly using the canon due to live view focusing issues in the d800.  The reviewer also seemed to salivate over the Tilt shift lenses from Canon.  The reviews conclusion is this -

"Finally, I leave you with an image of my silhouette, captured without my consent by the illumination of a full moon that guided my path as I said goodbye to my favorite falls. The bottom line, is that these are both amazing tools for photography. There are good points and bad points to both. Nothing is ever perfect and the best advice I can give, is for you to evaluate your needs and make your decision based on what you primarily shoot. There are workarounds to every problem but ultimately a photographer needs to know the camera's strengths and weaknesses in order to get the most out of it."

Now that is a statement that lacks hyperbole!  This whole conversation has really just turned to tech spec fanboyism. 

I personally love all the car references.  And I think they are apt.  BMW, Ferrari, Ford.  Yeah, the Ferrari may have a top speed of 200 mph, but, do you live near the Audubon?  Do you rent time at a race track?  When do you ever get to use that beast at anywhere near its potential?  I fear that is what shall happen here, people will by the Ferrari camera body and drive it at 30 mph on city streets....
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 03:51:59 PM by Chuck Alaimo »
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V8Beast

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2012, 04:27:58 PM »
So Canon did everything their customers wanted, even included the 1dx's af though at a slower speed. And since it's everything everyone asked for, 3500$ is a fair price, isn't it? But obviously there are even many Canon fans who aren't happy, Canon marketing should have watched more Simpsons.

The funny thing is that before the 5DIII was announced, much of the talk revolved around AF and speed. Now all of a sudden DR is the only thing that matters. People kept saying there's no way the 5DIII would get the 1DIV's AF system, let alone the 1Dx's! Others said we'd be lucky to get the 7D's AF system. Some even went as far as saying they'd be content with the same 9-point AF system as long as they were all cross-type points.

Speaking of cross-type AF points, it was the hot button topic for a while, just like everyone is fixated on DR right now. People kept pulling cross-type AF points out of their @sses. "I want a 19-point AF system, with 5 cross types," they demanded. "No, make it a 15-point AF system with 9 cross-types," they speculated. "Give me more cross-types, or give me death," they demanded. At that point, I don't think anyone would have dreamed that Canon would put a 61-point AF system with 41 cross-type points into the 5DIII, but they did, and now all of a sudden the camera is a POS? Anyone that suggested that the 5DIII might have 41 cross-type points at that stage was considered an idiot and flamed profusely.

I wouldn't mind if the 5DIII had an extra stop or two of DR in addition to all the other improvements over the MKII, but it's still a machine that addressed all my main gripes with the 5-series cameras. Regardless of how great any of the 5DIII's other specs may have been, if Canon recycled the same BS 9-point AF system for a third generation, I'd be pissed and would never have bought a 5DIII.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 04:30:06 PM by V8Beast »

edawg

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2012, 05:15:30 PM »
I don't get it, the 5d III is one of the best cameras ever made by any manufacturer, ever. Great af, great low light performance and with the EF mount it has access to some of the best lenses ever made in the history of photography. Irrespective of whatever else is out there, if you can't take good pictures with a 5d III, you can't take good pictures period.

stipotle

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2012, 05:22:23 PM »

The funny thing is that before the 5DIII was announced, much of the talk revolved around AF and speed. Now all of a sudden DR is the only thing that matters. ... People kept pulling cross-type AF points out of their @sses. ... "Give me more cross-types, or give me death," they demanded.

Hahaha Awesome.
+1

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2012, 05:29:02 PM »
At that point, I don't think anyone would have dreamed that Canon would put a 61-point AF system with 41 cross-type points into the 5DIII, but they did, and now all of a sudden the camera is a POS? Anyone that suggested that the 5DIII might have 41 cross-type points at that stage was considered an idiot and flamed profusely.
I would like to point out that 61/41 point/cross point AF is old technology that Canon perfected in the EOS line over 15 years ago. It costs them essentially nothing to put it in any camera - no software development cost, no new hardware to develop. The marginal cost of the 61/41 point screen and AF sensor is essentially nil.  So yes it is an important feature, but hardly an advance of any kind.

Same for the ever so slightly higher frame rate (4 MkII vs 6 MkIII). That is a function of the size of the high speed memory buffer. It has nothing to do with the sensor. It is very old technology, with very little cost associated with the modest frame rate increase. It may have even cost less, given the drop in price of fast RAM since this MkII introduction.

Marsu42

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2012, 05:35:52 PM »
Irrespective of whatever else is out there, if you can't take good pictures with a 5d III, you can't take good pictures period.

... unless you fell for the hype and got a 5d3, but the rest of your money was just sufficient for a 50/1.8 with no flashes, no filters, no tripod, no nothing :-p

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Re: Why did Canon Release the 5D MkIII (pure conjecture)
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2012, 05:35:52 PM »