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Author Topic: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]  (Read 13894 times)

dilbert

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14 and 24MP?
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2012, 07:27:34 PM »
I wonder who will be supplying the sensors for those...

If they're both Canon and 24MP is APS-C, does that mean we should also expect to see 24MP APS-C DSLRs from Canon later in the year too?

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14 and 24MP?
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2012, 07:27:34 PM »

dr croubie

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2012, 08:38:01 PM »
Come on Canon, go full frame or don't bother.  One major camera company should help the serious amateur masses adapt to digital just about any vintage 35mm lens ever made in the native as designed 35mm capture format.  We already have a sea of near beer EVIL mirrorless bodies that bring old lenses to digital but only in 1.5x and 2x crop formats. 

But if canon bring out a shorter-flange Mirrorless FF (or even APS-C) body, won't that just kill your business for the FD-EF adapters? Sure, you could probably make FD - EF-m (i'm calling the mirrorless mount EF-m btw) adapters, maybe sheaper than the official canon adapters, but the tolerances won't need to be so tight so eventually you'll just get undercut by $5 chinese ones.

Don't get me wrong, i'd love a mirrorless FF, i'd be second in the queue behind you for a FF nex-9 (or a Leica M10 if it gets live-view). But it's bad enough competing with NEX and m4/3 owners for FL/FD lenses, bringing in a FF mirrorless is going to make those lenses even more expensive.

Seeing as FF mirrorless is still probably inevitable within 3 years (hopefully sooner), i'm off to ebay to stock up...
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dr croubie

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2012, 08:40:51 PM »
I can see where going smaller would be better, but if I am carrying my big lenses around, I'm not going to see much benefit over my 5Dm2.  It's not like I would take this mirrorless camera over the 5Dm2 traveling or anything.

I'd take the mirrorless travelling, and have the SLR for more specialised shots.
But depends how you travel, if you're taking a 600mm f/4 IS II, the camera on the end won't make much difference if it's NEX-sized or a 1DX.
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Leadfingers

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2012, 01:24:59 AM »
I'm still struggling with "EF compatibility, but not EF mount."  If you can't mount it, it's not compatible....by definition.

...Unless they're talking about an adapter, but that's far from clear.

Anyway, if Canon releases a mirrorless camera that doesn't support EF-(S) lenses, that will be a huge failure (in my opinion).  I can't think of a reason that rings true that would compel them to contrive a new form factor.

/shrug
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dr croubie

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2012, 02:23:05 AM »
I'm still struggling with "EF compatibility, but not EF mount."  If you can't mount it, it's not compatible....by definition.

I presume they're talking about a short-flange mount (like 10-25mm), and an electronic adapter 20mm or so thick to a real EF mount, so you can use any EF mount lens with full autofocus and IS.
Ergo, electronically compatible with regards to AF and IS signals, but not EF mount because it's shorter.
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Ivar

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2012, 03:15:30 AM »
Also, a better DR than the 5D3 would be nice.

Come on Canon, go full frame or don't bother.

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tmrgrs

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2012, 08:55:04 AM »
Canon has already missed the boat for many potential mirrorless buyers and it's probably too late now except for brand conscious Canon enthusiasts. They'll sell at the big retailers to walk-in dummies no doubt but just like the Nikon mirrorless, but not so much to the many many tech-savvy enthusiasts who have already bought in to this technology with m4/3 or the NEX.

I've just recently sold off my 5D2 and all of my EOS fast primes after being a Canon DSLR user for nearly a decade and now have the E-M5 & E-PL3 along with couple of fast primes and a couple of zooms. There are more fast primes and constant aperture fast zooms coming later this year for m4/3 and there's no looking back now regardless of what Canon introduces for me. Adios Canon!
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 08:57:30 AM by tmrgrs »

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2012, 08:55:04 AM »

moreorless

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Re: 14 and 24MP?
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2012, 09:10:43 AM »
I wonder who will be supplying the sensors for those...

If they're both Canon and 24MP is APS-C, does that mean we should also expect to see 24MP APS-C DSLRs from Canon later in the year too?

There were rumours of a Canon 24MP sensor in one or both of the 650D and 70D.

As far as mirrorless primes go I don't think you can nesserally take Canon's lack of EF-S primes as a sign. There are plenty of smaller EF primes to fill that market where as with mirrorless the expectaion is obviously for something smaller.

To me the real key to the higher end mirrorless market seems like it may well be who can get out a quality zoom first. Olympus's 12-50 seems to have disapointed many but something with either than 24mm equivilent or a constant 2.8 and good IQ would I'd say have a bigger factor in desiding who comes out ontop that differences in bodies.

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2012, 09:29:44 AM »
Canon has already missed the boat for many potential mirrorless buyers and it's probably too late now except for brand conscious Canon enthusiasts. They'll sell at the big retailers to walk-in dummies no doubt but just like the Nikon mirrorless, but not so much to the many many tech-savvy enthusiasts who have already bought in to this technology with m4/3 or the NEX.

I've just recently sold off my 5D2 and all of my EOS fast primes after being a Canon DSLR user for nearly a decade and now have the E-M5 & E-PL3 along with couple of fast primes and a couple of zooms. There are more fast primes and constant aperture fast zooms coming later this year for m4/3 and there's no looking back now regardless of what Canon introduces for me. Adios Canon!

If the size and style of your camera system is more important than the actual images it produces (or it's just good enough), then there is nothing wrong with choosing m/43 or NEX. It may be the right choice if you don't care about the involved compromises. Looking at the m4/3 results I'm not convinced that it is much better than a premium P&S (like G1 X), while NEX APS-C sensor being more attractive which still cannot compete with Full Frame beauty.
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c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2012, 03:43:04 PM »

If the size and style of your camera system is more important than the actual images it produces (or it's just good enough), then there is nothing wrong with choosing m/43 or NEX. It may be the right choice if you don't care about the involved compromises. Looking at the m4/3 results I'm not convinced that it is much better than a premium P&S (like G1 X), while NEX APS-C sensor being more attractive which still cannot compete with Full Frame beauty.

It all depends on what you are doing. I shoot advertising with a Canon APS-C. I know of some ads that were shot with M4/3 and even one cover shot with M4/3.

Always use the right tool for the job. And sometimes M4/3 is the right tool.

When the Canon mirrorless and it's lenses arrive, I'll take a look. If they are the right tools I'll buy into the system. If not I'll look elsewhere.

seta666

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2012, 07:12:16 PM »
As a macro photographer I would like a small APS-C camera to back up my EOS 5D; but as some other said either canon fixes their low DR at base ISO (which sucks) or this camera will be a NEX (together with the 400$ NEX-EF adapter so I can use the MP-E).
 And please, with cable release and flash socket!!!

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2012, 02:18:44 AM »

If the size and style of your camera system is more important than the actual images it produces (or it's just good enough), then there is nothing wrong with choosing m/43 or NEX. It may be the right choice if you don't care about the involved compromises. Looking at the m4/3 results I'm not convinced that it is much better than a premium P&S (like G1 X), while NEX APS-C sensor being more attractive which still cannot compete with Full Frame beauty.

It all depends on what you are doing. I shoot advertising with a Canon APS-C. I know of some ads that were shot with M4/3 and even one cover shot with M4/3.

Always use the right tool for the job. And sometimes M4/3 is the right tool.

When the Canon mirrorless and it's lenses arrive, I'll take a look. If they are the right tools I'll buy into the system. If not I'll look elsewhere.

Yes, like I said, if it's good enough, then why not ?... I've seen some advertising and covers shot with Canon PowerShot G10 and it's fine when used with good lighting setup (and it is possible to add some fake shallow DoF in post-processing).
FF + primes !

jouster

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2012, 07:51:30 AM »
Canon won't be able to arouse any of my interest in their products until they fix their low ISO dynamic range.

Yes, because that was always such a big issue and no-one ever bought any Canon camera due to their low ISO dynamic range being completely inadequate. I mean, rumor has it that once, in Tibet (or was it San Francisco?), there was a philosopher who preached that it was all about the man taking the photo, not the equipment, and also devised a system for exposing a photo based on a 10EV system that would work for pretty much everything but, while the man achieved a relative degree of success, his theories were dismissed and proved to be inaccurate by the highly-trained interned trolls.

Last but not least, from what I heard, Nikon can't get any customers for the D800 since medium format cameras, costing only 20 times as much, have greater DR at the same low ISO - and everybody knows that you only need to shoot at low ISO's, and no one ever complained that the image quality at higher ISO is inadequate, since no one ever shoots at higher ISOs.

In conclusion, I whole-heartedly agree with your perspective.

+ 10EV for "interned trolls"...

I wonder who will be supplying the sensors for those...

If they're both Canon and 24MP is APS-C, does that mean we should also expect to see 24MP APS-C DSLRs from Canon later in the year too?

Hmmmm....I hope so, and can't think of any reason we wouldn't. A high-resolution APS-C (or a *much* denser full frame sensor, of course, but that seems a ways away) is desirable to me for astro-imaging.

I can see where going smaller would be better, but if I am carrying my big lenses around, I'm not going to see much benefit over my 5Dm2.  It's not like I would take this mirrorless camera over the 5Dm2 traveling or anything.

I'd take the mirrorless travelling, and have the SLR for more specialised shots.
But depends how you travel, if you're taking a 600mm f/4 IS II, the camera on the end won't make much difference if it's NEX-sized or a 1DX.

What specialized shots would those be? Just curious. I take my SLR when traveling because (a) I want the full functionality it offers; and (b) it really ain't that big. With a couple of primes - say 85mm and something wider - it fits easily in my briefcase.

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2012, 07:51:30 AM »

dr croubie

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2012, 08:07:31 AM »
I'd take the mirrorless travelling, and have the SLR for more specialised shots.
But depends how you travel, if you're taking a 600mm f/4 IS II, the camera on the end won't make much difference if it's NEX-sized or a 1DX.

What specialized shots would those be? Just curious. I take my SLR when traveling because (a) I want the full functionality it offers; and (b) it really ain't that big. With a couple of primes - say 85mm and something wider - it fits easily in my briefcase.

I'm not sure really, tbh. For now, at least, dslrs offer much faster and better phase-detect AF, so the 7D stays for sports.
In really low light, I trust my own eyes (and my katzeye) better than waiting for live-view to update, the back screen can be a bit jelly sometimes (which I hear is a real problem with Sonys, of course having never used one myself).
And I've just been taking pics of the 'supermoon' tonight, maybe it's a problem with the 7D, but taking a wide-angle shot and trying to MF on 10x live-view is impossible, the screen amped up the gain because most of the scene was black, it blew-out the moon, impossible to focus on a bright white blob. So I had to use my katz-eye viewfinder again for that. (but then after a while I though about focussing on a dimmer star instead).

For most other purposes IFF the lenses were of the same quality (hopefully smaller size), iff the battery lasted just as long, iff I could get all the other things I like about dslrs (accessories, TC80, RC6, speedlites, flash-sync plug, +/- EV bracketing, (at least) 3 custom modes, IS), iff (and when) the AF gets fast enough to rival a 7D, iff it was in a body size/shape I could carry around all day (frankly, my 7D and 70-300L is a very easy combo to hike with), and iff it did all this for a reasonable price with at least an aps-c or bigger sensor, then i'd certainly love a mirrorless.
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JoeDavid

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2012, 09:00:26 AM »
I don't think there's any way that Canon will release a mirrorless that is FF.  If they did they would charge way too much for it...  If I had my wishes I'd like to see one with the APS-C or, better yet, APS-H sensor size.  That 4/3 proportioned (but larger than 4/3 standard format) sensor in the G1 X is just about the craziest thing they have ever done.  I know there was a lot of hype about the G1 X and that the image quality was quite good but I found it interesting that Best Buy listed it for a couple of months before it was release and then deleted it from their site once it actually started shipping.  Sort of makes you wonder about the mass market appeal of the thing.  My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2012, 09:00:26 AM »