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Author Topic: Up the game  (Read 7460 times)

RunAndGun

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2012, 11:55:36 AM »

I am quite the opposite. I'd snap it up. A body is just a vehicle to get the best sensor behind my L glass, nothing more. I don't need fancy metering or AF modes. I don't care about burst rate or weather sealing. I don't even care whether the AF works at less than f/2.8. The lenses I use regularly are all 2.8 or faster.

I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Like I said, a DSLR has to be looked at as a whole system(the AF, the sensor, the "drive speed", etc.).  And you have to look at what you need in a system.  If you don't need an AF system capable of shooting sports, or a high frame rate and are only concerned what the sensor can do, then those parts of the system can take a back seat for you and you try to find a system that suites your needs the best.  If that isn't the 5DMKIII, that's fine, I'm sure there are a lot of people who won't choose it for whatever reason and get a camera that they feel best suites their needs.  But I think it's a dis-service to others to throw out what seems like a blanket statement that it is a disappointing and underwhelming camera just because you feel that it does not meet your needs/expectations.

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2012, 11:55:36 AM »

KeithR

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2012, 12:21:33 PM »
I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

UrbanVoyeur

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2012, 12:29:38 PM »
Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.
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Please note that the work on UrbanVoyeur prior to about 2005 was done primarily on Fuji Chome film and EOS film bodies.

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Edit:
My work is not any more demanding than anyone else's. And I am sure that many others can do what I do better and with lesser equipment. I just know what I want and how like to work, and if a truly superior sensor is out there, I want to use it my system, because I know I can do with it. Like film, a sensor is only a tool.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 01:01:33 PM by UrbanVoyeur »

UrbanVoyeur

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2012, 12:31:53 PM »
But I think it's a dis-service to others to throw out what seems like a blanket statement that it is a disappointing and underwhelming camera just because you feel that it does not meet your needs/expectations.
I think the 5DMkIII is a very impressive camera, with a less than impressive sensor. Therefore, I am underwhelmed. :-)

DavidRiesenberg

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2012, 02:21:03 PM »
How many stops do you think there are in a typical concert setting?

UrbanVoyeur

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2012, 03:41:51 PM »
How many stops do you think there are in a typical concert setting?
40? 60 ?
Every real world scene vastly exceeds the dynamic range of film or digital sensors. The trick is figuring out which real world values you want to map to the range of the sensor/film, and how much relative distance (contrast) you want between them That is the essence of the Zone system.

For example, your film or sensor may be able to capture 12 stops of range. Any object relatively brighter than six stops from the middle is a solid blown out highlight and any thing below stops from center is a solid blocked up shadow.

So you decide that the whitish flower in the hair of the singer should have detail (+6 to +4), the dress (+3) and the skin (+1 to -1) can fit in the scale too. Mic handle (-4) and the hair of the background singer (-6).   The rest falls outside the range.

This is a crude example, and not meant to be a real world condition, but it illustrates the idea.

Greater DR at a given ISO is important because it allows me to pack more tonal information into a representation of a scene.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 03:48:51 PM by UrbanVoyeur »

Tcapp

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2012, 09:00:42 PM »
I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

Nothing wrong with wanting the BEST quality available, even if you don't "need" it.

I'll shoot photos of my kid with my 5d3. I don't "need" that quality, but I like to always at least try to take the best photo possible. That is the essence of being an artist. You don't ever want to settle for something less. You strive for perfection in everything you do with your art. If you don't, you aren't going to make it as a professional.

I've been shooting with the 5d2 for years and had no problems. But I upgraded to 5d3 on day one because I wanted every little bit of extra quality I could get. The ergonomic upgrades are bonus. Yeah, I care more about that tiny bit of extra high iso quality than even the updated AF.

So calling people out because they want to take the best photos possible? Great idea. Great way to expose yourself to some great art.
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Re: Up the game
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2012, 09:00:42 PM »

ScottyP

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2012, 09:03:49 PM »
I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

So can we get an official ruling here?  Is he "served" at this point, and if so, per CR protocol, is "it on"?
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Tcapp

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2012, 09:11:08 PM »
I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

So can we get an official ruling here?  Is he "served" at this point, and if so, per CR protocol, is "it on"?

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sach100

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2012, 12:39:14 AM »
I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

Given the amount of 5d3 bashing that's going on in this forum i've come across quite a few regular posters lose their cool. So it's ok to be wrong at times.

Not that UrbanVoyeur's points are invalid, it's simply a matter of fact that canon hasn't improved every parameter that could have been improved. Will canon deliver "superior" DR  in their next generation of releases - i bet even canon might not know at this point of time. Some of us can wait it out /switch /complain and hope some of the reasonable demands find their way into the next generation of canon cameras. There are others who will buy the 5d3 FWIW and find ways to get the best out of what the camera can deliver.

Nevertheless, I can't wait to see (and get some of my own) all the beautiful images that WILL come out of this crappy sensor.  ;)


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Nice baby pics Mr. Dad! and congratulations to you guys!! :)
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Tcapp

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2012, 02:10:15 AM »
I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

Given the amount of 5d3 bashing that's going on in this forum i've come across quite a few regular posters lose their cool. So it's ok to be wrong at times.

Not that UrbanVoyeur's points are invalid, it's simply a matter of fact that canon hasn't improved every parameter that could have been improved. Will canon deliver "superior" DR  in their next generation of releases - i bet even canon might not know at this point of time. Some of us can wait it out /switch /complain and hope some of the reasonable demands find their way into the next generation of canon cameras. There are others who will buy the 5d3 FWIW and find ways to get the best out of what the camera can deliver.

Nevertheless, I can't wait to see (and get some of my own) all the beautiful images that WILL come out of this crappy sensor.  ;)


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Nice baby pics Mr. Dad! and congratulations to you guys!! :)

Why thank you my friend!! Always makes me happy when people take the time to check out my stuff. Thats what makes this forum feel like family. A pretty dysfunctional family at times, but a family non the less! :)
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jrista

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2012, 01:52:29 PM »
Nevertheless, I can't wait to see (and get some of my own) all the beautiful images that WILL come out of this crappy sensor.  ;)

I'm not sure anyone (who isn't just being spiteful) would actually call the sensor "crappy". Its certainly not a crappy sensor...however it is LACKING for some types of photography. I don't think there is any question that Canon sensors, for quite some time now, have offered lackluster dynamic range relative to the competition. Nikon was even getting over 12 stops of DR with their own sensors before they moved to Sony's game-changing Exmor. I believe millions of photographers will produce great photos with the 5D III, but that doesn't change the fact that Canon's sensor technology IS rather lackluster relative to the competition.

A better tool in skilled hands will always create a better result.

RunAndGun

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2012, 03:35:14 PM »
Bottom line, BOTH Canon and Nikon cameras can produce beautiful results.

On a side note, I just picked up a mint EOS-3 for $200.  Let's see how that sensor(Velvia 50) looks... 

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2012, 03:35:14 PM »

sach100

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2012, 11:49:20 PM »
Nevertheless, I can't wait to see (and get some of my own) all the beautiful images that WILL come out of this crappy sensor.  ;)

I'm not sure anyone (who isn't just being spiteful) would actually call the sensor "crappy". Its certainly not a crappy sensor...however it is LACKING for some types of photography. I don't think there is any question that Canon sensors, for quite some time now, have offered lackluster dynamic range relative to the competition. Nikon was even getting over 12 stops of DR with their own sensors before they moved to Sony's game-changing Exmor. I believe millions of photographers will produce great photos with the 5D III, but that doesn't change the fact that Canon's sensor technology IS rather lackluster relative to the competition.

A better tool in skilled hands will always create a better result.

yeah, my bad, poor choice of a word.

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takoman46

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2012, 03:10:16 AM »
Still talking about the sensor......

There is much improved in the 5D Mark III to give us the shot we want...
And that's what counts.
Ah yes, the sensor.. Kind of important, don't you think?

While the 5D3 might be a great upgrade for people coming from the 7D, XXD, or the rebel line, it is a very underwhelming and disappointing upgrade for the 5D2 crowd.

Not everyone wants to pay 3500 bucks for fixed AF, ratebutton and more FPS.

Are you a 5D Mark II owner? Or are you speaking on behalf of all 5D Mark II owners? I'm not attacking you, but you're claim needs support. If you are a 5D Mark II user and feel this way, then by all means your opinion is very valid.  ;)

For what it's worth, I went from a Mark II to a Mark III and am very pleased with the Mark III. It is in no way a disappointment for me.  :)

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Re: Up the game
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2012, 03:10:16 AM »