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Author Topic: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...  (Read 4174 times)

pwp

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Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« on: May 06, 2012, 11:58:30 PM »
Got some bad news folks. The outcry over the black focus points in AI Servo mode on the 5D3 will be repeated again and louder when the 1DX ships.

I've just come back from a Canon day at a local dealer where there was an evaluation 1DX. Sorry everyone, it has exactly the same "takes your breath away" design flaw as the 5D3, the dreaded black focus points. I don't know what the design engineers and beta testers were thinking. It reduces functionality. I'd love to hear the official reason for this design decision. There is no benefit to it.

There has been enough feedback on the 5D3 to see that this is probably this single biggest user annoyance with the 5D3. A camera like the 1DX will be used a lot more on AI-Servo mode, so the black focus point issue will be even greater.

Canon, quick! Make friends. Get the firmware fix out. The red lights are there in One Shot mode. Switch 'em on for AI-Servo!

Paul Wright

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Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« on: May 06, 2012, 11:58:30 PM »

Zouk

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 12:02:12 AM »
I've got a 1DX on order to replace my current (Nikon) D7000.  I shoot division 1A college football with my D7000 now.  When I'm tracking play (with a single active point), I track it with a black focus point and it's never, ever been an issue.  You can always see it.

When I used my friend's 1D3 to shoot the ACC Championship, the red focus points were also fine and nicely visible.

Shooting sports, I was never handicapped by the fact that my D7000 did not have brightly illuminated focus points.

I really, really don't think this is going to be an issue for sports shooters.  Unless I'm missing something glaring?

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 12:07:46 AM »
I've got a 1DX on order to replace my current (Nikon) D7000.  I shoot division 1A college football with my D7000 now.  When I'm tracking play (with a single active point), I track it with a black focus point and it's never, ever been an issue.  You can always see it.

When I used my friend's 1D3 to shoot the ACC Championship, the red focus points were also fine and nicely visible.

Shooting sports, I was never handicapped by the fact that my D7000 did not have brightly illuminated focus points.

I really, really don't think this is going to be an issue for sports shooters.  Unless I'm missing something glaring?

I've a 5D MK III, and its a big issue.  The 1D X is a low light camera, you can shoot where you can barely see the subject, but you need to be able to put the AF point on the subject and can't.  There are 61 AF points, and you can't see the active one!
 
This is a serious issue for pro level shooting, and critical in low light.

Zouk

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 12:14:12 AM »
The worst lit stadium I've shot in was Wake Forest.  I was pushing ISO 3200 at f/2.8 just to maintain 1/800... which is slow for football.  But, even with that I had no trouble seeing my focus points.

To be fair, that's also not a high school field.  I've never had to shoot on a high school field.  I suppose those are a nightmare.

That being said, to me, shooting with dark focus points is normal.  If the 1DX had brightly lit points, I'd be saying "wow, this sure is cool."  Since I'm used to black points, perhaps it doesn't seem an issue to me.

Shooting sports with D200's out of the cabinet is a frequent occurrence, so anything that AF's well is a damn luxury... ;)


pwp

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 12:32:15 AM »
Zouk maybe the Nikon has something different about it's viewfinder AF point display that keeps the black focus points visible when compared to the 5D3.

Maybe you have souped up vision. Lucky you! That helps shooting sports. If I were you I'd test-drive before switching sides.

But there has been enough noise from respected shooters to see that Canon have made a serious design blunder here.
But hopefully it's a simple matter with a firmware fix.

Paul Wright
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 12:33:46 AM by pwp »

Zouk

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2012, 12:57:14 AM »
Maybe you have souped up vision. Lucky you! That helps shooting sports. If I were you I'd test-drive before switching sides.

I suppose having young eyes helps a bit too.

I've shot 1D2n and 1D3 bodies alongside my own Nikon gear and gear from the cabinet, so I've definitely got experience on the Canon side of things and feel comfortable switching.  I have effectively zero (~$500) lens investment, and I figure now is a good time to take the plunge.  No sense in buying a Nikon 400 if I'm on the fence.

Anyhow.  Perhaps I'm unclear on the issue... does the point disappear once tracking begins?  As a reference, you can see here a crappy phone camera photo of what I'm used to tracking with:



The point stays on, and stays black the whole time I'm tracking.  Am I correct in assuming that the issue is that the point is not brightly illuminated red as, say, the points in the 1D3 I occasionally use?

Based on what's been said, I suppose my lack of understanding for the issue stems from having become accustomed to using much-less-than-professional gear thus far in my shooting career.  :-[

pwp

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 01:41:49 AM »
Zouk, the issue is insignificant so long as your black focus point is across a light area as in your posted sample. Though red is quicker to work with as it's THERE and you don't have to go looking for it. But when that selected focus point goes across a dark area ie dark stage area, a dark or black suit or dress, a dark stadium background...there are a bazillion examples. Think about it. Black on black is hard or impossible to see.

It's a non argument. Period. Respected photographers are speaking up. Chuck Westfall from Canon USA acknowledges the issue. It's real.

Paul Wright

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 01:41:49 AM »

Zouk

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 01:50:30 AM »
Zouk, the issue is insignificant so long as your black focus point is across a light area as in your posted sample. Though red is quicker to work with as it's THERE and you don't have to go looking for it. But when that selected focus point goes across a dark area ie dark stage area, a dark or black suit or dress, a dark stadium background...there are a bazillion examples. Think about it. Black on black is hard or impossible to see.

It's a non argument. Period. Respected photographers are speaking up. Chuck Westfall from Canon USA acknowledges the issue. It's real.

Paul Wright

Makes sense.  I'll count myself thankful that I don't have to shoot in sports venues that dim. :)

They made a switch from the reflex LED AF points to the front-lit LCD AF points for one reason or another.  Let's hope it's a reversible design decision; if it can't be reversed, hopefully we'll see a change in the next generation.

Sycotek

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 02:23:29 AM »
Same as 7D in AI-Servo

the cheat is to use AI-focus so you can see it blip for a second or punch in af select mode and align yourself, then hit af-on and go from there.

its annoying but it was my work around.

---

obviously ai-focus wont work with the 1DX :P

lars_aune

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 02:58:14 AM »
As bad as this is, I am more concerned with the shipping date since I assume this can be fixed with a firmware update.

Has anyone?!? heard anything more about when it will ship?

My dealer has simply taken the expected "in-stock" date off his website after first having end of March and then end of April. Obviously no fault of his, but I find it strange that it now has been dead silent for a while. If nothing else, a re-confirmation of shipping date or perhaps an actual shipping date would be nice. I am a dedicated Canon shooter, but they get nothing but fail from me in term of how they have handled this case  :-\

Bombsight

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 03:16:07 AM »
If I were you, I just wouldnt buy the 1DX ... & IF YOU ALREADY PRE-ORDERED IT, CANCEL IT!
.... being as it is you already know it doesnt meet your level of perfection. 

I'll let you know when the firmware fix makes it worth having ... k?  ;)

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 03:27:14 AM »
I've got a 1DX on order to replace my current (Nikon) D7000.  I shoot division 1A college football with my D7000 now.  When I'm tracking play (with a single active point), I track it with a black focus point and it's never, ever been an issue.  You can always see it.

When I used my friend's 1D3 to shoot the ACC Championship, the red focus points were also fine and nicely visible.

Shooting sports, I was never handicapped by the fact that my D7000 did not have brightly illuminated focus points.

I really, really don't think this is going to be an issue for sports shooters.  Unless I'm missing something glaring?

I've a 5D MK III, and its a big issue.  The 1D X is a low light camera, you can shoot where you can barely see the subject, but you need to be able to put the AF point on the subject and can't.  There are 61 AF points, and you can't see the active one!
 
This is a serious issue for pro level shooting, and critical in low light.

+1 I do a theatre shoot every month and this would be a nightmare for me

wildwood

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2012, 05:06:20 AM »
What's a lit-up AF point (or points) going to do to metering?

ww.

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2012, 05:06:20 AM »

PhilDrinkwater

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2012, 05:39:25 AM »
The funny thing with this and the 5d3 is it makes me wonder if Canon talk to any actual photographers. The first thing I noticed about the 5d3 was the issue with the viewfinder. It took me about 2 hours to spot it. Yet this camera has presumably been in production for years and the Canon ambassadors will have had them for 6-12 months I'd have thought.

And no one during that time said "err.. Nice focus accuracy but sorry guys I can't see where I'm focussing".

If canon don't find a solution to the viewfinder issue in firmware - and I think they wont because the red lights have issues too - it calls into question WHO canon should be trusting in their feedback loop.

Put another way, if I was in their feedback loop and they listened to me, this embarrassing situation would never have happened. And if youre listening canon, that's a genuine offer since you shouldn't be releasing cameras with such fundamental faults.

Shnookums

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2012, 07:21:34 AM »
I don't understand the problem... My 1DII doesn't show any AF point in AI Servo, black or red, when using the 45 focus point. So, having a black point is better than none right?

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX AI Servo AF Point is BLACK. Oh no...
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2012, 07:21:34 AM »