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Author Topic: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]  (Read 12815 times)

dilbert

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2012, 09:44:04 PM »
Quote

There is no defined announcement date yet, but we’re told Canon may be announcing a new interchangeable lens camera every 6-8 weeks heading into Christmas.

June, August, October.

Anything later than October will be challenging for them to get into stores in time for Christmas in the right quantity.

So my guess is (at 8 week boundaries):
May/June - next APS-C DSLR (xxxD)
July/August - Mirrorless
September/October - New entry level FF

That leaves out the new (7D,60D) successor.

At 6 weeks:
May/June - xxxD
Mid-July - Mirrorless
Late-August - xxD
Early-October - Entry level FF

« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 09:49:27 PM by dilbert »

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2012, 09:44:04 PM »

stevenrrmanir

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2012, 10:20:14 PM »
The 7D NEEDS an update, I think it would be quite silly of Canon to either not replace it or take it slightly down market.  There needs to be an APS-C flagship if Canon is serious about staying with the format.

To be a proper APS-C flagship, the 7DII needs:

  • 100% viewfinder
  • Dual Digic V
  • The same 18MP sensor with improved DR
  • Clean ISO 12,800
  • 10 fps with a decently sized buffer
  • 61 pt AF from the 5DIII
  • The usual video improvements
  • I'd even consider a builtin portrait grip like the 1 series bodies
It would be a dream camera for those who can't afford the 1 series or need the extra reach of APS-C.  Charge $2-$2.5K and you have a winner. :)

Those are pretty attractive specs, but your$2-$2.5k idea is nothing more than a pipe dream. Do you really think they'd sell a body for $2k with those specs, especially after how they priced the 5D mark III?

*edit* You forgot f/8 to further canibalize 1D X sales  :P

simple: if Canon is too cheap and will not deliver a good body for a good price, there is always the alternative: Nikon - they are listening to the consumer's needs and are releasing really good bodies at lower prices than Canon...


D_Rochat

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2012, 10:27:21 PM »
and here we go again......

Woody

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2012, 10:49:52 PM »
At 6 weeks:
May/June - xxxD
Mid-July - Mirrorless
Late-August - xxD
Early-October - Entry level FF

There are talks of a high pixel count FF camera announced some time this year. So, if we slot that into early December, it'll fit the rumored 6 to 8 weeks announcement of interchangeable lens camera quite nicely.

I feel that one of xxxD and xxD is redundant. xxxD should be fully replaced with mirrorless camera. xxD should just be a one stop solution before converting all DSLRs into FF and confining APS-C to mirrorless cameras. Just MHO.

daniemare

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2012, 11:31:42 PM »
Here is my wish with a conceptual link to current model names.

APSC
Mirrorless > xxxxD (as a 600D rebrand with Digic V update) > 650D with new sensor and 9/11 point AF all cross point (essentially replacing 60D) > 7D II meeting all Pro requirments (same sensor as 650D)

FF
70D (entroduce as entry level FF: plastic body, elementry AF, maybe current 7D's, 18mp 1DX sensor, 4/5FPS) > 5D > 1D

Thus the single didgets remain pro
The xxD regain purpose and status
Mirrorless becomes entry level

I can see myself getting the FF entryblevel, especially if they add EF-S compatibility. $2,000 while I can continue using that lenses will be managable money wise. I just cannot justify a mark III and I will be honest a mark II is to old for comfort.
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unfocused

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2012, 11:35:54 PM »
Quote
All you guys who are saying that Canon could release a body with these specs forget what just happened with the 5D. This forum almost ripped itself apart when we found out what the new 5D offered and how much they wanted for it. Nothing wrong with dreaming, just don't get your hopes up.

Key difference #1: 5DIII is targeted at a very specific professional audience (wedding and event photographers). Most of the complaining on the forum is from people who don't fit that niche and thought they were going to get a mass market camera at a bargain price. 7D is marketed to a much broader and more diverse audience. Canon focuses on its markets and makes cameras that will sell to their target audience;

Key difference #2: Price competition is much more important at the 7D level. More competition, less brand loyalty, less investment in the system;

Key difference #3: 5DII was very dated in some areas (autofocus). Professionals who rely on a 5D could not afford to skip a generation and wait for the 5DIV. 7D is much less dated (still the best APS-C camera made three years into its life). Only minor upgrades are needed. It will be much easier for 7D owners to skip a generation if the next model isn't to their liking.

Key difference #4 (an offshoot of above): The DSLR market has matured and will not grow anywhere near the pace it has grown in the past decade. Manufacturers must shift from concentrating on adding new customers to enticing existing customers to upgrade. Given the high customer satisfaction with the current 7D they have a challenge ahead of themselves to come up with something that will cause current owners to upgrade.

Key difference #5 (also related to 3&4): Upgraders fall into two main categories. The potential 60D user who wants something a bit more robust than the Rebel line but is unlikely to ever buy an "L" lens. These are customers satisfied with a good quality camera that they can use for stills and video and maybe a couple of lenses. Category two are the folks who have decided to get into photography in a big way and have a reasonable amount of disposable income to do so (the classic "enthusiast" or "prosumer.") These are folks who shoot at a high skill level, are prepared to invest in equipment but have no interest or desire to spend $3,000 on a camera. Second category also includes those who practice photography as an offshoot of another hobby (birders, for example).

Key difference #6: The demise of APS-H gives Canon an opportunity to greatly expand the 7D pool at little cost and with small changes. (Comparable sensor quality, modest improvements in build and autofocus). I'm still thinking we could see a 7Dx offered as an option with an integrated grip and other professional features.

In short, Canon is under much more pressure to deliver a 7D II at reasonable cost and their path is much more clear given that the camera doesn't need to be anywhere near as great of an upgrade as the 5DIII was to the 5DII.

And, I promise this. If they don't deliver, I won't be threatening to leave Canon or complaining about how they don't know what they are doing, or how the 7DII is just crap compared to the Nikon. Instead, I'll just keep on using my 7D, maybe buy a second body, and wait for the next generation.
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Danielle

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2012, 12:08:36 AM »
Quote
If they don't deliver, I won't be threatening to leave Canon or complaining about how they don't know what they are doing, or how the 7DII is just crap compared to the Nikon. Instead, I'll just keep on using my 7D, maybe buy a second body, and wait for the next generation.


+1 to a major degree. I'll be disappointed though. I would like to add a potential 7D mkii and have 2 bodies. Other option is to buy a 1d mkiv which I see as the step up currently, or just another 7D. But after already switching to canon, It would be a push for me to go back. I just kinda like the 7D, it works for me extremely well... very extremely well.

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2012, 12:08:36 AM »

D_Rochat

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2012, 12:27:43 AM »
I'd love to see an affordable 7D with the mentioned specs, I'm just skeptical. Here's hoping I'm wrong....

Gcon

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2012, 03:55:08 AM »
7D is a great body but just has a horrible sensor. If they improve the sensor to remove more noise, it'd be a great little bit of kit.

Woody

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2012, 05:13:10 AM »
7D is a great body but just has a horrible sensor. If they improve the sensor to remove more noise, it'd be a great little bit of kit.

Horrible sensor??? Compare that to the one in D300s (its main competitor) and you'll find the 7D sensor actually emerges as the better performer. In its time, the 7D sensor is often described as class-leading.

Of course, the Sony 16 MP APS-C sensor has since then taken over the crown. Even the new Sony 24 MP APS-C sensor is a dud when compared to its older 16 MP sibling.

I believe Canon can easily match the high ISO performance of Sony's 16 MP APS-C sensor. It's their low ISO dynamic range that's of greater concern. I have little faith in Canon's ability to produce sensors with better low ISO dynamic range, judging by the poor performance of the 5D3 sensor in this department.

Marine03

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2012, 08:54:19 AM »
I have to disagree with many on this forum everyone seems to think that everything is going up market that prices have to rise with new features.   I couldn't disagree more.  The 7D being pro-sumer right now and being the next camera I want to buy I could never imagine spending more than 1900 with that being list price.    Even after reading on here that it will have a new generation of sensor some keep saying the 650D will have the same one.  This from my understanding will not be true and it makes a lot of sense.   For example

Release Order
650D with old 18mp sensor but other upgrades like old 7D AF
Mirorless
7D2 with New sensor dual digic 5 and better AF lets it then stand out above the rest of the lineup and allows a year or longer before the new fancy sensor gets passed down to the rebels.
Big Mega Pixel FF

Back to my original soap box, I don't know what everyone here does for a living but if you move the 7D2 up in price 2000+ then its no longer a consumer camera. 

6D, 450D(collecting dust), Nifty Fifty, 565EX Flash

dilbert

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2012, 09:04:34 AM »
Here is my wish with a conceptual link to current model names.

APSC
Mirrorless > xxxxD (as a 600D rebrand with Digic V update) > 650D with new sensor and 9/11 point AF all cross point (essentially replacing 60D) > 7D II meeting all Pro requirments (same sensor as 650D)

Yes, I can see EVIL/MILC replacing the xxxxD.
And if the 650D moves up to be more like the 60D then I think it is reasonable to expect the 70D to move up and be the replacement for the 7D.

Quote
FF
70D (entroduce as entry level FF: plastic body, elementry AF, maybe current 7D's, 18mp 1DX sensor, 4/5FPS) > 5D > 1D

As much as I would like it to happen, I can't see them doing a 70D with full frame

Quote
Thus the single didgets remain pro
The xxD regain purpose and status
Mirrorless becomes entry level

I agree that mirrorless will become the entry level for Canon interchangeable cameras.

The 7D isn't a pro level camera today, so if the single digits were to mean pro, the 7D would need to change in a big way.

AprilForever

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2012, 09:40:39 AM »
If Canon neuters the 7D, I SHALL INDEED BE ANGRY!!!

If Canon bloats the sensor to FF, I SHALL INDEED BE ANGRY!!!

Read this, O Canon! For I shall not tolerate the messing with the 7D!!!
What is truth?

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2012, 09:40:39 AM »

KeithR

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2012, 09:56:28 AM »
Just one more reason to mourn the end of Karma.

Naaah - saying it specifically is much better than vaguely smiting someone.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 09:59:30 AM by KeithR »

KeithR

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2012, 10:02:50 AM »
Of course, the Sony 16 MP APS-C sensor has since then taken over the crown.

Actually, there's nothing that sensor will do that can't be matched or bettered by the 7D's sensor, at any ISO. 

When I see people calling the 7D sensor "horrible", I just shrug - "it's a bad workman..." and all that.

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Re: New Crop/APS-C Prosumer Camera Body in the Fall? [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2012, 10:02:50 AM »