September 03, 2014, 03:03:14 AM

Author Topic: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]  (Read 29209 times)

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4417
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: June 18, 2012, 04:28:42 AM »
...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.

But better this way than the other way around (forced longer shutter speeds for IS lenses) because IS doesn't help if your scene has motion, it just dampens your shaking hand.

That having said, all customization of current dslrs is a joke given the fact that you've got an embedded computer in your hand. Even on my 25 year old eos620 with date back, I could program in custom shutter-aperture curves!

And since the Canon firmware is written as it is, even addons like magic lantern cannot do that much outside live view or with a considerable lag due to overriding Canon's settings.

But that's the future I'm afraid: the more capable devices get, the more concerned manufacturers will get with feature-locking them (see Apple and all other smartphones) to keep control over their product line.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: June 18, 2012, 04:28:42 AM »

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 917
    • View Profile
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #76 on: June 18, 2012, 11:55:02 AM »
...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.
They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.
Just sayin'

I will not go through this endless loop again. Please read up on how exactly Auto-ISO is implemented on the Nikon D4 and D800 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16). This is as good as it gets currently. Although it is not complete or "perfect" either.


briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #77 on: June 18, 2012, 12:05:34 PM »
The M with autoiso and ec is available in the 1D4

we are talking about the 5D 3 and a possible FW Update for it. So forget your stupid 1D 4 for a while and its totally awkward scratch-yourself-on-the-back-of-your-head implementation of pseudo Auto-ISO.

The 5D III and any other Canon EOS camera needs a firmware with a full and unfettered implementation of Auto-ISO. 

This means:
* user-settable upper and lower limits for 1.) ISO 2.) shutter time and  3.) aperture - to be used as required in   various exposure modes [Auto], P, Av, Tv, M
* plus regular operation of exposure correction in M with Auto-ISO on
... anything less is unacceptable and total crap.

oh ... and just to make sure: we want it NOW and we do NOT want it hidden away under unlabeled custom functions 91,92 to 99 plus safety shift enabled and CTRL-ALT-DELETE-DIRECT-PRINT-button pressed simultaneously ... oh no, we want it readily and easily accessible!

My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem

As for M mode with autoiso and ec - I can see the issues with that - so I guess that is personal preference.

PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all  ;)

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 917
    • View Profile
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #78 on: June 18, 2012, 12:50:52 PM »
My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all  ;)

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #79 on: June 18, 2012, 01:05:22 PM »
My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all  ;)

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

I understood you wanted to control the shutter speed, aperture and use autoiso with EC as well.

Is that not what you want to do??

With fixed AV and TV how would you want the camera to behave when iso gets to the minimum or the maximum then?

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 917
    • View Profile
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #80 on: June 18, 2012, 01:43:49 PM »
My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all  ;)

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

I understood you wanted to control the shutter speed, aperture and use autoiso with EC as well.
Is that not what you want to do??
With fixed AV and TV how would you want the camera to behave when iso gets to the minimum or the maximum then?

yes, but that is not all!  In P and Av I additionally want the cam to take focal length (also wioth zoom s!) and presence of an (activated) IS into account ... to automatically determine a suitable minimum shutter time with respect to avoiding camera shake induced blur - unless I specifically set a shutter time as lower limit.

And I want it implemented in an as user-friendly fashion as in the Nikon D4 and D800!
There you can EITHER set a min. shutter speed   OR set min. shutter speed to AUTO .. .and the cam will determine a suitable lower limit based on focal length in use (1/x) AND if desired, this algorithm can then be further finetuned towards using somewhat longer times (if the user trusts his steady-holding technique) or towards somewhat faster shutter times (if one feels a bit shaky ... ).

This is much more complex to describe here than to actually use the feature on the Nikon. Just read up in the link to the dpreview D800 review provided in one my previous posts.

If implemented in such a way, the Canon 5D3 would be egonomically even superior to Nikon D4/D800 in thei sregard ... because on the 5D3 these settings would be stored as part of the overall camera-setup in the 3 Custom-modes [C1...C3] on the main-mode dial from there the can be recalled instantly. E.g. I routinely store a "tripod-photography setting" under C2 on my 7D. In that setup, I would set a much lonfger minimum shutter speed for Auto-ISO than in setting C3, shich is my "action-oriented setup" (handheld).

Those custom settings C1/C2/C3 on the main mode dial are one area where Canon's implementation is far superior to Nikon's concept of storing user settings in 2 separate "storage banks". 

On Canon 1D/s/X cameras there is no mode dial, so this does not apply to them and makes operation somewhat different - and less efficient than on 5D II//III and 7D/60D. But this is admittedly a matter of personal preference and what you are most used to.   

John Thomas

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: June 18, 2012, 01:52:04 PM »
...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.
They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.
Just sayin'

I will not go through this endless loop again. Please read up on how exactly Auto-ISO is implemented on the Nikon D4 and D800 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16). This is as good as it gets currently. Although it is not complete or "perfect" either.

Read it, thanks for the link. However I think that having much more precise control (ie. in +/- 1/3 stops or 1/2 stops, WRT Lens' Focal Length) is better than having a 5 step scale of -0.5xF, -0.25xF, 0, 2xF, 4xF - where F is the lens' focal length like the Nikon has.

Also, I think that my proposal is much more open to the future cases (being linear) compared with Nikon's which seems exponential / logarithmic.

As for GUI implementation, rather than a slider, I would propose a spin edit control (for ex see http://documentation.devexpress.com/#WindowsForms/clsDevExpressXtraEditorsSpinEdittopic) which is much more compact space wise and can "hold" much more values than a slider. But if Canon want to use sliders like in AFMA screen, no problem for me. Just to implement it.

just my2c

canon rumors FORUM

Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: June 18, 2012, 01:52:04 PM »

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 917
    • View Profile
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #82 on: June 18, 2012, 02:06:44 PM »
...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.
They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.
Just sayin'

I will not go through this endless loop again. Please read up on how exactly Auto-ISO is implemented on the Nikon D4 and D800 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16). This is as good as it gets currently. Although it is not complete or "perfect" either.

Read it, thanks for the link. However I think that having much more precise control (ie. in +/- 1/3 stops or 1/2 stops, WRT Lens' Focal Length) is better than having a 5 step scale of -0.5xF, -0.25xF, 0, 2xF, 4xF - where F is the lens' focal length like the Nikon has.

Also, I think that my proposal is much more open to the future cases (being linear) compared with Nikon's which seems exponential / logarithmic.

As for GUI implementation, rather than a slider, I would propose a spin edit control (for ex see http://documentation.devexpress.com/#WindowsForms/clsDevExpressXtraEditorsSpinEdittopic) which is much more compact space wise and can "hold" much more values than a slider. But if Canon want to use sliders like in AFMA screen, no problem for me. Just to implement it.

just my2c

Sorry, I cannot follow re. spin control .. what would that lookk like ... got a picture? 

I do not have the impression that Nikon's fine-tune feature is logarithmic ..  but I agree with you, that users should have even more direct control over Auto-ISO behaviour ... which parameter (Av,Tv,ISO) should be adjusted first, which second, which third and under which circumstances (min - max ranges, focal length used, IS active or not).

And I also do NOT consider the Nikon D4/D800 Auto-ISO feature to be the single best imaginable solution to this problem. I just know, it is far superior to any Canon implementation up to now. This is why I would like to see a better Auto-ISO implementation on Canon cameras ... making it fully functional AND user-controllable AND as easy to use as possible!  :-)

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #83 on: June 18, 2012, 05:41:58 PM »
Perhaps it is me but M mode means fixing shutter speed and aperture and autoiso sets the metering - with ec for fine control

Lets just focus on this for the moment.

What do you propose to do when the iso hits either the max or the min?

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 917
    • View Profile
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #84 on: June 18, 2012, 06:42:16 PM »
Perhaps it is me but M mode means fixing shutter speed and aperture and autoiso sets the metering - with ec for fine control

Lets just focus on this for the moment.

What do you propose to do when the iso hits either the max or the min?

we are looking at more than one mode:

* M - is as you say. Av + Tv chosen by photog, camera choses AUto ISO. EC needs to be working "as normal". Min and max ISO Speed  - if set - would lead to under-/over exposure if threshold is hit.
Possibly some form of saftey shift could kick in, if activated by user ... allowing Av and/or Tv to be managed, if upper or lower threshold for these two parameters is not yet reached.

* P and Av: camera can manage ISO within user-specified range (upper/lower threshold value) and play with Tv ... either within user set upper/lower value or if set to AUTO ... then it would choose a suitable shutter time according to focal length and presence of activated IS and user-set finetuning (wowards faster or slower shutter times). AFAIK IS detection is missing even in Nikon D800/D4 iomplementation. Also mising is a clear user-settable prioritization of the two parameters ISO and shutter time ... meaning: first change ISO or first change shutter time or adjust both parameters at the same time but by a smaller amount? 

* Tv ... camera can manage ISO within user specified range and Aperture within user set range (upper/lower value - can not even be set in Nikon's implementation] - and ultimately limited by lens max. aperture opening. 

Thats it, as far as I can see it. :-)

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #85 on: June 18, 2012, 06:50:25 PM »
Perhaps it is me but M mode means fixing shutter speed and aperture and autoiso sets the metering - with ec for fine control

What do you propose to do when the iso hits either the max or the min?

we are looking at more than one mode:

* M - is as you say. Av + Tv chosen by photog, camera choses AUto ISO. EC needs to be working "as normal". Min and max ISO Speed  - if set - would lead to under-/over exposure if threshold is hit.
Possibly some form of saftey shift could kick in, if activated by user ... allowing Av and/or Tv to be managed, if upper or lower threshold for these two parameters is not yet reached.


That is precisely what my faux M mode does on the 1D4 and the 1DX .....

The only improvement that could be made is a reduction of the 4 key presses for the min shutter speed

It would be good on the 5DIII to remove the min 1/250 shutter speed.

The biggest benefit will come with the inclusion of the AF point linked metering
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 06:58:23 PM by briansquibb »

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 917
    • View Profile
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #86 on: June 18, 2012, 07:48:10 PM »
That is precisely what my faux M mode does on the 1D4 and the 1DX .....
yes. I realize that. But "M" is only one mode. Nikon is even further ahead with Auto ISO in P and A(v).

It would be good on the 5DIII to remove the min 1/250 shutter speed.
That would be the bare minimum, but not nearly sufficient yet.

opiuman

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #87 on: June 18, 2012, 09:24:35 PM »
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware

Shows a 1.1.3 available as of 06/19/12 under Windows 7 x64. No changelog posted yet? Downloading now.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #87 on: June 18, 2012, 09:24:35 PM »

bdunbar79

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2563
    • View Profile
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #88 on: June 18, 2012, 09:39:07 PM »
My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all  ;)

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

I understood you wanted to control the shutter speed, aperture and use autoiso with EC as well.
Is that not what you want to do??
With fixed AV and TV how would you want the camera to behave when iso gets to the minimum or the maximum then?

yes, but that is not all!  In P and Av I additionally want the cam to take focal length (also wioth zoom s!) and presence of an (activated) IS into account ... to automatically determine a suitable minimum shutter time with respect to avoiding camera shake induced blur - unless I specifically set a shutter time as lower limit.

And I want it implemented in an as user-friendly fashion as in the Nikon D4 and D800!
There you can EITHER set a min. shutter speed   OR set min. shutter speed to AUTO .. .and the cam will determine a suitable lower limit based on focal length in use (1/x) AND if desired, this algorithm can then be further finetuned towards using somewhat longer times (if the user trusts his steady-holding technique) or towards somewhat faster shutter times (if one feels a bit shaky ... ).

This is much more complex to describe here than to actually use the feature on the Nikon. Just read up in the link to the dpreview D800 review provided in one my previous posts.

If implemented in such a way, the Canon 5D3 would be egonomically even superior to Nikon D4/D800 in thei sregard ... because on the 5D3 these settings would be stored as part of the overall camera-setup in the 3 Custom-modes [C1...C3] on the main-mode dial from there the can be recalled instantly. E.g. I routinely store a "tripod-photography setting" under C2 on my 7D. In that setup, I would set a much lonfger minimum shutter speed for Auto-ISO than in setting C3, shich is my "action-oriented setup" (handheld).

Those custom settings C1/C2/C3 on the main mode dial are one area where Canon's implementation is far superior to Nikon's concept of storing user settings in 2 separate "storage banks". 

On Canon 1D/s/X cameras there is no mode dial, so this does not apply to them and makes operation somewhat different - and less efficient than on 5D II//III and 7D/60D. But this is admittedly a matter of personal preference and what you are most used to.   

This makes no sense to me.  I want the 7D to be able to do all that too.  But it doesn't.  So guess what?  I bought a different camera.  If the 5D Mark III doesn't do what you want, then buy a different one.  Seems pretty simple to me.
2 x 1DX
Big Ten, GLIAC, NCAC

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3538
    • View Profile
Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: June 19, 2012, 12:47:56 AM »
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware

Shows a 1.1.3 available as of 06/19/12 under Windows 7 x64. No changelog posted yet? Downloading now.

it doesn't do much :(

no fixed autoiso

no zebra, focus peaking, higher bit rates or crop modes for video :(


canon rumors FORUM

Re: New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: June 19, 2012, 12:47:56 AM »