November 23, 2014, 04:23:50 PM

Author Topic: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...  (Read 8518 times)

hyles

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2012, 03:03:35 PM »
Quote
7d has a separate processor JUST FOR AF... the 5d3 doesn't. 

Not true.

The 5D Mark III has a dedicated processor for the AF:

From the Canon site (and many many other sites)

Both the 1D X and the 5D Mark III use dedicated AF microprocessors; these AF microprocessors are not DIGIC chips. The increased sensitivity of the focus system has also allowed for faster predictive focus measurements. Increased processing power is another factor to the 5D III's excellent AF performance - "The dedicated AF processor is four times faster than the one found in the EOS-1D Mark IV.


Also my 5D mark III is very close to 6 FPS.
Not sure why his 5D mark III is slow !! , make sure noise reduction is also off and battery fully charged.

Noisy images at 100 ISO !!!! , please post sample images so that we can see what is wrong.
If your 7D output is less noisy then for sure something is wrong.

Fair enough that the 5d3 has a microprocessor, although unspecified by canon, it is unknown what the power that processor is compared to a full digic. As far as it was explained to me, the 7d's drive was aided by 2 digic 4 processors, much like the 1d4's 2 processors helped that AF system and drive.  The 1dx also has 2 digic 5+ processors to help that drive and buffer.  The 5d3 has 1 digic 5+ processor in comparison to the 7d and 1d4 and 1dx 2 digic processors.  It has been hinted that the 5d3's 1 processor should be (in af terms) be as good if not better than the 1d4 although it lacks in FPS and buffer, it is what it is.
every eos camera has an AF sensor, since eos film times.
eos 1 series since 1DIII has double digic processor, 1DX has double digic 5+ processor and 1 digic 4 used for AF. 7D has double digic4 processor.
Diego

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2012, 03:03:35 PM »

victorwol

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2012, 03:29:23 PM »
I'm sure the camera can take the 6fps. Just get your phone, make the chronographer to run, and press the shutter, look at the photos, and you will see how many photos you take a second. With a fast card (1000x) I can take about 18 in raw at 6fps, then goes down to about 4 until the card is full.

Now if you are selecting a subject difficult to focus, and your multi shot preference is set to focus priority and not release priority, it will reduce the speed as expected to first focus, then release. I also have a 7D and in not better focusing, not even close, I tested with every single lens I have and the 5D MKIII smokes it...
1D X - 5D MKIII - 7D - 24 f1.4L - 8-15 L - 50 1.2L - 85 1.2L - 15 2.8 - 16-35 2.8L - 24-105 4.0L - 70-200 2.8 LII - 24 TSE - 45 TSE - 90 TSE - MPE 65 - 180 f3.5L - 100 2.8L II - 580EX and a few Einsteins.

awinphoto

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2010
    • View Profile
    • AW Photography
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2012, 03:59:48 PM »
Quote
7d has a separate processor JUST FOR AF... the 5d3 doesn't. 

Not true.

The 5D Mark III has a dedicated processor for the AF:

From the Canon site (and many many other sites)

Both the 1D X and the 5D Mark III use dedicated AF microprocessors; these AF microprocessors are not DIGIC chips. The increased sensitivity of the focus system has also allowed for faster predictive focus measurements. Increased processing power is another factor to the 5D III's excellent AF performance - "The dedicated AF processor is four times faster than the one found in the EOS-1D Mark IV.


Also my 5D mark III is very close to 6 FPS.
Not sure why his 5D mark III is slow !! , make sure noise reduction is also off and battery fully charged.

Noisy images at 100 ISO !!!! , please post sample images so that we can see what is wrong.
If your 7D output is less noisy then for sure something is wrong.

Fair enough that the 5d3 has a microprocessor, although unspecified by canon, it is unknown what the power that processor is compared to a full digic. As far as it was explained to me, the 7d's drive was aided by 2 digic 4 processors, much like the 1d4's 2 processors helped that AF system and drive.  The 1dx also has 2 digic 5+ processors to help that drive and buffer.  The 5d3 has 1 digic 5+ processor in comparison to the 7d and 1d4 and 1dx 2 digic processors.  It has been hinted that the 5d3's 1 processor should be (in af terms) be as good if not better than the 1d4 although it lacks in FPS and buffer, it is what it is.
every eos camera has an AF sensor, since eos film times.
eos 1 series since 1DIII has double digic processor, 1DX has double digic 5+ processor and 1 digic 4 used for AF. 7D has double digic4 processor.
Diego

Exactly what i was referring to
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

RuneL

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 201
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2012, 04:29:42 PM »
Why are you writing letters to canon and pasting them here? Is it set to "track" or "drive" priority? If you want a fast firing camera get a 1D IV and sell it when the 1D X shows up. There, problem sovled, no more time spent writing letters. Also, iso 12800... What do you expect? It looks fine to me? I made a nifty comparison to a 1D IV 12800 ISO shot, though very different in lighting and subject, whatever, just for the hell of it.

Edit: As I've said in another post: You need to get used to the camera. They are very different. You upgraded from mid tier to near top tier. I rue the day you get your hands on a 1D X, wonder how many bitchy posts you'll write here, complaining about X or Z or Y because you didn't bother reading the manual.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 04:37:33 PM by RuneL »

Sycotek

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2012, 07:51:38 PM »
Thanks all for your replies:

Interesting notes from further testing:

-I found dpp->tiff->lr3 not to be as good as dng->lr4 (lr4 by default now adds +25 Colour NR which gets rid of most of the banding iso100-iso3200)

-fps hit seems to come mainly from ALO/NR - turning that off yielded slightly higher fps something I didn't experience or notice with the 7D, I did read somewhere about the battery at 40% effecting overall fps - but someone else brought that up and noted.

-For the record the 7D is my tie over camera when I sold off all my 1 Series gear (as we were all expecting the 1Dx to be out last Feb, tried to get a better price for my 1 Series before everyone starts the sell-off...) I think part problem being my expectations coming from 1Ds3's and 1D4's.

-The fact that I can see the banding on the back lcd screen when you hit the standard magnify is cause for concern - as someone mentioned prior it could be a lemon body - even my gf who isn't a photographer walked past and asked 'wtfs with the red and green lines?' - there's no way I am giving that to a client.

-Main reason for posting: I found it amusing that Canon Australia hides behind *Canon Inc* more times then I can count, just frustrating.


Sycotek

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2012, 07:53:21 PM »
And yes it's going back - might try another body and see how that goes

Drizzt321

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
    • Aaron Baff Photography
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 08:26:54 PM »
-For the record the 7D is my tie over camera when I sold off all my 1 Series gear (as we were all expecting the 1Dx to be out last Feb, tried to get a better price for my 1 Series before everyone starts the sell-off...) I think part problem being my expectations coming from 1Ds3's and 1D4's.

Ah, well, maybe there's part of your problem. You're expecting this to be a 1D camera. It may have the new 1D class focusing system, but it's still a 5D level camera even though it does have lots of small tweaks and improvements over the 5d2.

I will say, I haven't really gotten the noise quite as bad as yours, and LR 4.1RC[1|2] cleared it right up most of the time at ISO 6400 & 8000 the time I shot at that high. It's definitely a big improvement over the 5d2@3200, that's for sure! Talk about banding!
5D mark 2, 5D mark 3, EF 17-40mm f/4L,  EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 85mm f/1.8
Film Cameras: Mamiya RB67, RB-50, RB-180-C, RB-90-C, RB-50, Perkeo I folder, Mamiya Six Folder (Pre-WWII model)
http://www.aaronbaff.com

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 08:26:54 PM »

krjc

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2012, 08:29:33 PM »
I have had my 5D3 for 24 hours now and it is just so much better then my 7D that I love so much. High ISO is so much better and so much better then the 7D that there is no comparison. I have pushed the exposure to see how it handles it and it is looks good to me. Photos at 25,600 looking better then 1,600 on my 7D. Only thing I will miss on the 5D3 compared to the 7D is the reach. If a 7D2 comes out I will upgrade and have that as my second camera for that reason. Also the transition from the 7D has been effortless and the main reason I didn't even consider the D800, that along with my Canon glass. Frankly I don't care what others have, if what I have gets the job done 100% for my needs.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 08:34:33 PM by krjc »
Now-> Cameras: 7D, 5D3, T4i, G12 Lens: 24-105, 10-22 EFS, 17-55EFS, 50 1.4, 100 2.8 macro IS, 70-200 2.8IS II, 100-400, TC 2 III, MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x, 16-35 F4 L

Sycotek

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2012, 08:41:10 PM »
I have had my 5D3 for 24 hours now and it is just so much better then my 7D that I love so much. High ISO is so much better and so much better then the 7D that there is no comparison. I have pushed the exposure to see how it handles it and it is looks good to me. Photos at 25,600 looking better then 1,600 on my 7D. Only thing I will miss on the 5D3 compared to the 7D is the reach. If a 7D2 comes out I will upgrade and have that as my second camera for that reason. Also the transition from the 7D has been effortless and the main reason I didn't even consider the D800, that along with my Canon glass. Frankly I don't care what others have, if what I have gets the job done 100% for my needs.

It is really a seamless change!

And banding aside i was impressed with the jpeg engine - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33440790/Jpegzoom.png for example 12.8K, 1/20, f4, 105mm (a little PP but it picked up the texture on the leather at 12.8K which to me is impressive)


Sycotek

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2012, 11:22:23 PM »
In direct comparison with it's big brother - pre-production 1DX - I'm sure people have seen this image before but I've blown-up parts for my own analysis f5, 1/125, 24mm, iso12.8K:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33440790/EOS1dX--0063.jpg - ACR convert to jpeg, no PP although it looks like there was NR inbody enabled.

Banding specifically in the greys isn't visible - does inherit the colour bleed which i noticed on the 5d3 at high isos - maybe that's what they have been fixing over the last few months? Look at the red to black transition, i had that issue with a teal (shorts) to skintone transition on the 5d3.

altenae

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 186
  • Enjoy Wildlife
    • View Profile
    • Wildlife-photos
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2012, 04:23:09 AM »
Quote
Ah, well, maybe there's part of your problem. You're expecting this to be a 1D camera

?

What are you saying ?
The 5D is not good enough for IQ , etc. and you need a 1D for this ?!

Strange remark.
Also strange topic.
Still waiting for his noisy and banding example from the 5D mark III.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 04:26:08 AM by altenae »

Drizzt321

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
    • Aaron Baff Photography
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2012, 12:17:16 PM »
Quote
Ah, well, maybe there's part of your problem. You're expecting this to be a 1D camera

?

What are you saying ?
The 5D is not good enough for IQ , etc. and you need a 1D for this ?!

Strange remark.
Also strange topic.
Still waiting for his noisy and banding example from the 5D mark III.

I was referring to the FPS and such, not the IQ. I've never used a 1D camera, but from what I've seen people post there are distinct differences above and beyond just the hardware that distinguishes a 1D from any other camera in Canon's lineup. If that's what he's used to, even the 5d3 will have various points that he might consider to be of significantly lesser quality.
5D mark 2, 5D mark 3, EF 17-40mm f/4L,  EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 85mm f/1.8
Film Cameras: Mamiya RB67, RB-50, RB-180-C, RB-90-C, RB-50, Perkeo I folder, Mamiya Six Folder (Pre-WWII model)
http://www.aaronbaff.com

Sycotek

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2012, 06:45:30 PM »
There was a banding image up for a few days sorry I pulled it down. If you're interested I can try and get a variety of cropped isos put together for you if i get the time over the weekend :)

In the end:

When went back to the store to return the unit and the canon dealer was intrigued (as you can see the banding on the back lcd as clear as day) He then got out the loaner unit and whilst it is still visible on the back lcd screen it wasn't anywhere near as bad as mine and the are sending that one back as a lemon.

We put both bodies through a battery of tests, shooting with the same then different lenses - all L's for the record - both units exhibited near same banding.It's very easy to replicate shoot dark grey to mid grey target or shoot a scene where there is shadows and it is visible in the shadows/dark greys. I never tried i but if my process holds true, shooting the night sky would yield the same result even more-so around dusk.

I am waiting to hear from Canon if there is actually a known issue with the processing engine/noise profile. It would explain why there is colour-bleeds visible in the raws on both the 1DX and 5D3, (and more then likely the real reason for the delay of the 1DX).

As previously noted - if you are using LR4, it automatically removes banding that occurs iso 100-3200 as the NR color slider is locked at 25 to begin with. cr2->dng->LR4 yields better results overall then cr2->dpp->tiff in my experience.

the latest dpp seems to ruin the image with unsharpen mask added by default ? (im not really a heavy user of dpp so im not the best when it comes to understanding why) artifacts are present in the image that aren't seen when converted to DNG.


canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2012, 06:45:30 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4010
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2012, 03:52:30 AM »
From my experience, Even with ISO 100, on most cameras, it's possible to recreate banding... I shoot product photography and metalized materials on a reflective surface gives me strong banding at ISO 100.  Other materials aren't noticeable and looks flawless...  what surface is the banding occurring on?  a highly reflective surface?  Skin tones should be porous enough to break the banding...  As for the slow FPS, if you have the camera on focus first/speed second it will only fire when it's "sure" it's got focus... Also remember the 7d has a separate processor JUST FOR AF... the 5d3 doesn't.  Its processor is faster than the digic 4's, supposedly, but it isn't a miracle worker, and is suspect in less challenging situations, it should be able to get 6FPS if set to do so.  The AF point illumination is a problem but is easily fixable via firmware.

For $3500, with AF being the main upgrade, it sure as heck should track in AI Servo at 6fps, I sure hope the 7D doesn't leave it in the dust.

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4010
    • View Profile
Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2012, 03:57:18 AM »
Quote
7d has a separate processor JUST FOR AF... the 5d3 doesn't. 

Not true.

The 5D Mark III has a dedicated processor for the AF:

From the Canon site (and many many other sites)

Both the 1D X and the 5D Mark III use dedicated AF microprocessors; these AF microprocessors are not DIGIC chips. The increased sensitivity of the focus system has also allowed for faster predictive focus measurements. Increased processing power is another factor to the 5D III's excellent AF performance - "The dedicated AF processor is four times faster than the one found in the EOS-1D Mark IV.


Also my 5D mark III is very close to 6 FPS.
Not sure why his 5D mark III is slow !! , make sure noise reduction is also off and battery fully charged.

Noisy images at 100 ISO !!!! , please post sample images so that we can see what is wrong.
If your 7D output is less noisy then for sure something is wrong.

Fair enough that the 5d3 has a microprocessor, although unspecified by canon, it is unknown what the power that processor is compared to a full digic. As far as it was explained to me, the 7d's drive was aided by 2 digic 4 processors, much like the 1d4's 2 processors helped that AF system and drive.  The 1dx also has 2 digic 5+ processors to help that drive and buffer.  The 5d3 has 1 digic 5+ processor in comparison to the 7d and 1d4 and 1dx 2 digic processors.  It has been hinted that the 5d3's 1 processor should be (in af terms) be as good if not better than the 1d4 although it lacks in FPS and buffer, it is what it is.

7D does NOT use the 2 digic iv for AF it has a dedicated AF chip. 1DX also has a dedicated AF chip, the digic iv in the 1DX is only used to do the special color metering AF stuff.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5d3 2 day experience coming from a 7D - Canon responses included...
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2012, 03:57:18 AM »