November 25, 2014, 07:51:39 PM

Author Topic: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600  (Read 19558 times)

Tammy

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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2012, 05:38:51 PM »
My first post on this forum.

I purchased my 5D Mark III in late May and after testing it for a few weeks using mostly L lenses, I thought I had a defective camera body because I was seeing noise at not only 1600 iso but even at lower ISO levels (starting faintly at 800 iso and gradually increasing). My camera retailer (Looking Glass Photo in Berkeley) decided to test the camera before they sent it back to Canon and when they didn't find any problems when making direct comparisons with a 5D Mark II (and saw less noise on the Mark III images at all iso levels, especially visible at higher iso levels), we began to talk about workflow and software. I have been using Lightroom 4.1 to process my files, which appears to be the culprit. Processing with Canon's proprietary Digital Photo Professional made a world of difference. The "haze" of noise (mostly luminance, but also some chroma) was completely gone and the colors were more saturated (perhaps more than I'd prefer, but in many ways, better than what I was seeing in Lightroom).  I wasn't certain about whether Lightroom uses Adobe Camera Raw or a different RAW processing algorithm, but the contrast between the screen view of RAW images is significant. I went back to look at those problematic files and re-processed them in Digital Photo Professional and was struck every time by the lack of noise using Canon's RAW processing engine.

If anyone can suggest how to obtain the same level of noise-free processing in Lightroom, please share your settings. (I hadn't made any changes to Lightroom between using my 5D Mark II and when I started using the Mark III body other than upgrading to 4.1, first 4.1 RC then 4.1 Final.)

Incidentally, I recently tried processing in DxO Optics Pro 7 Elite and the RAW images also look better than in Lightroom 4.1. I haven't been able to make comparisons between DxO and Digital Photo Professional, but I hope I'll be able to go back to using Lightroom because of the Develop module.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

anyone know the link to the thread where people from this forum posted their examples of LR vs DPP processing that clearly shows the poor shadow noise produced specifically in LR RAW processing?? it was a really great thread. If not for that I would have processed my 5D3 RAWs in LR just for simplicity's sake, as that's what i primarily use in my workflow for editing.
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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2012, 05:38:51 PM »

ckwaller

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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2013, 04:02:11 PM »
My sincerest apologies for resurrecting such an old thread, but I've just gone through a near-identical experience as the OP and other posters in the thread.

Long story short, I noticed some considerable noise when shooting w/ my 5D Mark III at ISO levels of 4,000. This was encountered in both dim and moderately-lit locations. Obviously, I'm aware that the images shot in dimmer areas would have more noticeable noise due to shadows and underexposing of the image. However, I Was curious as to why there was still noticeable noise in the ISO 4000 images in well lit areas (especially when compared to photos from other people).

Fearing I had a lemon, I contacted the Canon Repair Center in Chesapeake Bay, and was advised to upload my files (CR2) into Canon DPP and then compare the same image (untouched) in Adobe Lightroom 4.1, which is my standard photo processor. I did so and was completely blown away by the difference in quality. As has been said, the images in DPP featured superior noise reduction compare to those in Lightroom, which had a look of "Sandpaper" when blown up to 100%.

My question is the same as the post before mine: Is there a way to incorporate DPP into my workflow (Essentially Camera - SD Card - Lightroom - Photoshop/Publish)? I can save the images from DPP as .tif files, but when I bring them into Lightroom, I lose the ability to adjust the white balance (i.e., setting it to Flash, daylight, shade, custom, etc). I'm aware that this happens whenever you bring a tiff into Lightroom.

Alternatively, are there Lightroom settings that I can use that'll mimic the results shown in DPP? Losing total control of the white balance isn't a complete dealbreaker for me, but I'd prefer not to.

I've scoured threads here in the CR Forums and can't find an answer, sadly.

Also, I'm currently on Lightroom 4.1...does anyone know if the noise issues with the 5D Mark III have been corrected in Lightroom 4.3?

Thanks and again, my apologies for digging up old bones.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 04:03:59 PM by ckwaller »

bchernicoff

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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2013, 04:54:30 PM »
I haven't read through this whole thread, so I don't know what was previously discussed, but I've found the default lightroom sharpening to be too agressive... accentuating high-iso noise. Also, under Camera Calibration:Profile, try Camera Faithful or Camera Neutral...it may give you a better rendering than Adobe Standard depending on what you are going for. Let me know if any of that helps you out. I'm genuinely curious.
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digital paradise

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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2013, 05:24:17 PM »
That is why it is so critical to use masking in the Detail pallet. I usually wind up around 80. If you don't then you just sharpen any existing noise in the smooth/background areas. You only want to sharpen edges.

And yes most of those images were underexposed. Add high ISO you are going to get noise. Chrominance noise will really
show the splotches.   

These two with my 5D2 at ISO 6,400. I used a flash so I got good exposures. I did do some NR using LR.



« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 05:28:29 PM by digital paradise »

digital paradise

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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2013, 07:00:44 PM »
ISO 1600 with my 5D3. No NR applied


ckwaller

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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2013, 03:45:17 PM »
I haven't read through this whole thread, so I don't know what was previously discussed, but I've found the default lightroom sharpening to be too agressive... accentuating high-iso noise. Also, under Camera Calibration:Profile, try Camera Faithful or Camera Neutral...it may give you a better rendering than Adobe Standard depending on what you are going for. Let me know if any of that helps you out. I'm genuinely curious.

Thanks for the info. I tried the Neutral/Faithful profiles and they didn't do much to alleviate the noise. As you said, Lightroom's Standard noise level (25) is far too harsh, and I had better results when dragging the Sharpening slider to '0.' There was still a bit of noise left when compared to the raw file in DPP.

Digital Paradise, I love the photo of the dog shot @ 1600 ISO. You mentioned applying no NR for this photo. Do you mind me asking which program you ran it through, or was it straight out of camera?

I'll post a comparison of a LR photo and that same photo in DPP later this evening/tomorrow to show the difference I'm getting. As mentioned, I'd love to find a way to mimic DPP's effects directly in Lightroom. However if I have to, I suppose I'll just add DPP as the precursor step to Lightroom in my overall workflow, to alleviate the noise.

I'm curious, has anyone with a 5D3 + LR noticed this (Seeming) software problem? Or is it just a few?

bchernicoff

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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2013, 04:49:14 PM »
The dog picture has been resized down to 900px wide. You really aren't going to see any noise in an image resized that small anyway.
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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2013, 04:49:14 PM »

East Wind Photography

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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2013, 05:03:39 PM »
So noise is ok as long as it's not patterned noise.  Consider back in the film days when we shot with ASA400 film and we had grain to deal with.  In most cases the grain was random and the eye would tend to ignore it.  If it's patterned as happens when you over sharpen ISO 1600 images, the noise can be obnoxious.  So the trick as mentioned before is to apply masking and sharpening and use just enough noise reduction to de-pattern what is left.  Any Chrominance noise in the shadows can be easily removed in PS or lightroom through that noise reduction filter.

So the important thing is to use enough noise reduction and masking to get rid of the noise patterns.  You can also mask some of the random noise that's left over by printing on Luster papers or Canvas.

My sincerest apologies for resurrecting such an old thread, but I've just gone through a near-identical experience as the OP and other posters in the thread.

Long story short, I noticed some considerable noise when shooting w/ my 5D Mark III at ISO levels of 4,000. This was encountered in both dim and moderately-lit locations. Obviously, I'm aware that the images shot in dimmer areas would have more noticeable noise due to shadows and underexposing of the image. However, I Was curious as to why there was still noticeable noise in the ISO 4000 images in well lit areas (especially when compared to photos from other people).

Fearing I had a lemon, I contacted the Canon Repair Center in Chesapeake Bay, and was advised to upload my files (CR2) into Canon DPP and then compare the same image (untouched) in Adobe Lightroom 4.1, which is my standard photo processor. I did so and was completely blown away by the difference in quality. As has been said, the images in DPP featured superior noise reduction compare to those in Lightroom, which had a look of "Sandpaper" when blown up to 100%.

My question is the same as the post before mine: Is there a way to incorporate DPP into my workflow (Essentially Camera - SD Card - Lightroom - Photoshop/Publish)? I can save the images from DPP as .tif files, but when I bring them into Lightroom, I lose the ability to adjust the white balance (i.e., setting it to Flash, daylight, shade, custom, etc). I'm aware that this happens whenever you bring a tiff into Lightroom.

Alternatively, are there Lightroom settings that I can use that'll mimic the results shown in DPP? Losing total control of the white balance isn't a complete dealbreaker for me, but I'd prefer not to.

I've scoured threads here in the CR Forums and can't find an answer, sadly.

Also, I'm currently on Lightroom 4.1...does anyone know if the noise issues with the 5D Mark III have been corrected in Lightroom 4.3?

Thanks and again, my apologies for digging up old bones.

digital paradise

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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2013, 07:32:49 PM »
I haven't read through this whole thread, so I don't know what was previously discussed, but I've found the default lightroom sharpening to be too agressive... accentuating high-iso noise. Also, under Camera Calibration:Profile, try Camera Faithful or Camera Neutral...it may give you a better rendering than Adobe Standard depending on what you are going for. Let me know if any of that helps you out. I'm genuinely curious.

Thanks for the info. I tried the Neutral/Faithful profiles and they didn't do much to alleviate the noise. As you said, Lightroom's Standard noise level (25) is far too harsh, and I had better results when dragging the Sharpening slider to '0.' There was still a bit of noise left when compared to the raw file in DPP.

Digital Paradise, I love the photo of the dog shot @ 1600 ISO. You mentioned applying no NR for this photo. Do you mind me asking which program you ran it through, or was it straight out of camera?

I'll post a comparison of a LR photo and that same photo in DPP later this evening/tomorrow to show the difference I'm getting. As mentioned, I'd love to find a way to mimic DPP's effects directly in Lightroom. However if I have to, I suppose I'll just add DPP as the precursor step to Lightroom in my overall workflow, to alleviate the noise.

I'm curious, has anyone with a 5D3 + LR noticed this (Seeming) software problem? Or is it just a few?

I used PS but LR which I own is the same. Straight out of camera but there was an oops. PS/LR color noise defaults to 25 and I forgot to turn it off. Here is another one with colour NR off. Made little difference. I mask at about 80 in the detail pallet which helps.


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Re: 5d Mark iii noise at 1600
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2013, 07:32:49 PM »