November 21, 2017, 06:21:15 PM

Author Topic: Film is still hard to beat  (Read 81088 times)

justaCanonuser

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Re: Film is still hard to beat
« Reply #210 on: July 12, 2016, 04:02:57 AM »

But alluding to those measurements entirely misses the point of film, nobody would ever say watercolours are dead, or oil paints are hard to beat. Film is an entirely different medium for image capture than digital and it takes a different mindset, film used to be the only effective way of mass image capture but glass plate photographers were just as 'valid', it was a choice that individuals used to get the results they wanted.

If you want results and images are the intention there is no practical or measurable reason to shoot film*, indeed there are very good reasons to not shoot film, in that respect film is easily beaten and is dead. If the process is part of the output then film is alive and kicking and looking healthier than it has in quite a while.

* Technically there are few things you can shoot with film that you can't shoot 'better' with digital, but there are looks you can get via a wet process that are very difficult to match without some skill and time in Photoshop. But again, that really is missing the point of using film most of the time.

The main reason to shoot film today is the way it changes your way of thinking. It's a bit like slow food compared with fast food (fast food can be very okay). I shoot a lot digital and still love it but I also returned to use more film again. Technically, digital is superior in most respects: sharpness, high ISOs - when I got my 5D3 in 2012 it opened up a whole new world of available light photog to me -, flexibility in post-processing. But as your footnote says, there still are some areas in which film is superior. In Iceland I recently shot a very subtle rainbow in a waterfall's mist with my EOS 3 loaded with a Fuji Velvia because I knew from experience that I'd have to tweak a digital image much to get it out. The color slide displays it wonderfully - but I know: if I try to scan it I again need to do a lot of post processing to get it so nicely. Also sunsets shot with a Velvia are still hard to beat digitally, same with subtle color shadings in snow and ice. Digital you have 14 or 16 bits of color depth or so, film offers analogue infinity (okay not quite because of the grain).

Plus, I personally still prefer true grain in black & white prints over fake vintage filters despite those are impressively good (e.g. Silverfast). For me this is a question of philosophy, of pureness and honesty. I'd never drive a New Beetle because it is a faked VW Golf or shoot a Fuji or Nikon retro style camera because like any digital camera they are computers with sensors but they pretend to be classic cameras.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 04:06:37 AM by justaCanonuser »
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Re: Film is still hard to beat
« Reply #210 on: July 12, 2016, 04:02:57 AM »

jeffa4444

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Re: Film is still hard to beat
« Reply #211 on: August 24, 2016, 07:48:16 AM »
I always laugh when I read threads like this!
Do you go into and art gallery and compare oils to water colours? Do you compare charcoal drawings to engravings?
Film is another medium to digital, another tool in the kit and has its place. Film has made a dramatic comeback in high end Hollywood movies all of which are scanned and edited, graded etc.  digitally as well as adding digital visual effects. Here the two work in harmony and the grain is either supressed or enhanced (Star Wars).
The tonality of film is really the reason many DOPs give for choosing it with their directors, that and the slightly softer feel it imparts which improves skin tones etc.

Digital is sharper, more resolution and more clinical looking but many are tired of the clinical look / TV look and are using old optics to impart imperfections deliberately. We see this across commercials, TV, Features and photo shoots more & more. Maybe once Rec. 2020 is more widely adopted digital will have a colour gamut that allows the tonality of film its certainly possible with the Sony F65 which does utilise Rec. 2020.
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N2itiv

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Re: Film is still hard to beat
« Reply #212 on: December 09, 2016, 10:22:17 AM »
The best thing about film is those little plastic canisters it comes in, which are useful for storing a variety of small items from screws to quarters.  The stuff that originally comes inside those handy little canisters has lost relevance.

Merry Christmas and happy New Year, Neuro(sis)-You know we all love you, here (cough, cough)
You know I can't be where you already are, brown.
Please PM me with your address so I can send you some canisters for future use. In the meantime, you can put bulb hangers on them and use them for ear rings. All the best to you. Cheers!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 10:25:18 AM by N2itiv »

jeffa4444

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Re: Film is still hard to beat
« Reply #213 on: December 14, 2016, 11:25:51 AM »
You assume that digital is striving to be like film? Why would  you assume that?

The feel is nothing but nostalgia, and is as such useful for anything else than recreating a certain feeling.

Digital is its own... Otherwise you might take the step further and say that a Kodak film anno 2012 is not quite achieving what the old camera obscuras could achieve.

If you want the film look by all means go ahead, but film is not hard to beat... it's been beat years ago. Both in pixel count terms and qualitywise.
Besides digital is far more efficient to one's workflow and you have photoshop to help you make what ever look you want. Don't try to make digital into film or compare it to eachother... there's absolutely no point.
Working in the motion picture industry I hear this rhetoric all the time. Film and digital ARE different and have pluses and minuses with the world deciding film has more minuses than digital. Your wrong at this level though Producers do compare film to digital but mainly in terms of cost whereas DOPs compare because along with the director they want a different "look".
The times you see people trying to make digital look like film and in stills a whole industry of plug-ins try to make digital look like film however Ive never heard anyone say they want film to look like digital.

Your opinion of "quality" is a technical one not an artistic one and even that is based on other peoples finding unless your able to qualify technically the differences yourself. I'm able to test in a multitude of ways but Ive never found a conclusive answer because even technical tests can be read various ways.

I always say the great masters decided whether to paint in oils or water colors who am I to say one is better than the other when its clear both can and did coexist.

The new Star Wars shot of film, made millions & millions of $$ it did not stop the public watching it as content is king not the method.

Long live film & long live digital and long live choice. 
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AlanF

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Re: Film is still hard to beat
« Reply #214 on: December 14, 2016, 12:55:22 PM »
Film may or may not be still hard to beat, but discussion of this topic has been beaten to death. RIP.
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Re: Film is still hard to beat
« Reply #214 on: December 14, 2016, 12:55:22 PM »