5D3 vs D800 sales numbers

[NormanBates]

I know supply is limited for both cameras because neither Canon or Nikon can get enough cameras out of the gates to satisfy their customers, but anyway...

my theory is that, once manufacturing issues are solved, Canon will have to lower the price of their 5D3 because of low sales numbers, given that the D800 is so much better for stills in nearly every image quality metric, and its price is significantly lower too

it's happened before, in the 5D2 vs D700 battle, and in the D7000 vs 60D battle:

* July 2008: Nikon launches D700 at $3000
* Sep 2008: Canon launches much better 5D2 at $2700
* Dec 2008: D700 has fallen to $2320, 5D2 still $2700
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Nikon-12-1MP-FX-Format-Digital-3-0-Inch/product/B001BTCSI6
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Canon-21-1MP-Frame-Digital-Camera/product/B001G5ZTLS

aug-2010: Canon launches 60D at $1400
sep-2010: Nikon launches D7000 at $1200; it's better in some areas (noise, DR, color) but worse in others (mpix, video, swivel screen)
oct-2010: 60D has fallen to $1250, D7000 remains at $1200
since jan-2011: 60D almost always cheaper than D7000
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Canon-60D-3-0-Inch-18-135mm-Standard/product/B0040JHVC2
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Nikon-16-2MP-DX-Format-Digital-3-0-Inch/product/B0042X9LC4

so, here is amazon's list of best selling DSLRs
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941

when it started shipping, the D800 spent about a week in the top position, even if they never actually had it in stock
in the last week, the D800 has been hovering at 4th-5th, while the 5D3 climbed from 18th to 9th, and is back down to 16th now

[zim]

and it's different in uk....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bestsellers-Electronics-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/14335821

and therefore probably every other country/region

do pros (being the main purchacers I'm assuming) actually buy their camera's from Amazon?

I really don't think you can go by Amazon to even estimate sales numbers

[well_dunno]

Statistically speaking, if we do not have any reason to believe those who purchase D800 prefer Amazon whereas those who purchase 5D Mark III prefer some other pro stores, Amazon figures are still good indicatively.

Cheers!

[PhilDrinkwater]

do pros (being the main purchacers I'm assuming) actually buy their camera's from Amazon?

I really don't think you can go by Amazon to even estimate sales numbers

I think this is a significant point to be aware of. In the UK, Calumet say they do a lot of the early trade and they get a reasonable proportion of the early stock to fulfil pro orders.

Certainly that's where I got my 5dii and recently my 5diii from. They had my 5diii to me 2 weeks after I ordered it and I know a number of people buying from elsewhere haven't done that well.

I'd buy a lens or batteries or a flash from amazon, but I wouldn't buy a camera body from them. For that I'd go a pro camera shop.

I definitely wouldn't trust the amazon rank for this kind of camera in the slightest. Maybe consumer cameras, but not semi-pro/pro. No idea about the US market - presumably B&H or somewhere would do more trade than amazon?

[bycostello]

ton of factors in there not just competition the yen exchange rate at time of import a big one...

[smithy]

I definitely wouldn't trust the amazon rank for this kind of camera in the slightest. Maybe consumer cameras, but not semi-pro/pro. No idea about the US market - presumably B&H or somewhere would do more trade than amazon?

+1

When you see that the 1100D is the top selling Canon camera in the rankings, it's pretty clear what market buys their gear from Amazon.

I bought my 5D3 today (in part due to PhilDrinkwater's review, I must admit), and the manager at the camera shop I dealt with said they haven't even *seen* a production D800.  It's almost what we call in the IT industry 'vapourware'.  Something that gets announced, but nobody can physically obtain.

[justsomedude]

Using Amazon sales charts as a basis for drawing consumer trend conclusions is pretty flawed.  As many stated, it's one outlet, and there's not enough additional information for any real statistics to be gleaned.

That said, I bought my 5D3 on launch day from a local brick-and-mortar shop.  A good friend of mine, who also does a lot of pro work, bought his from B&H.

[PhilDrinkwater]

I bought my 5D3 today (in part due to PhilDrinkwater's review, I must admit), and the manager at the camera shop I dealt with said they haven't even *seen* a production D800.  It's almost what we call in the IT industry 'vapourware'.  Something that gets announced, but nobody can physically obtain.

Uh oh! I hope you like it!! I tried to be as fair as possible

I heard the same from a retailer here. They can't get hold of d800's. It just annoys people...

[smithy]

I bought my 5D3 today (in part due to PhilDrinkwater's review, I must admit), and the manager at the camera shop I dealt with said they haven't even *seen* a production D800.  It's almost what we call in the IT industry 'vapourware'.  Something that gets announced, but nobody can physically obtain.

Uh oh! I hope you like it!! I tried to be as fair as possible

I heard the same from a retailer here. They can't get hold of d800's. It just annoys people...

So far its low light capabilities are blowing my mind - I can't understand how a camera can have this kind of performance.  I feel like I'm cheating the gods of photography and light somehow.

Your review (and your style of photography) resonated with me, so I thank you.  I just wish I still lived in the UK so I could tag along on one of your shoots! 

[sublime LightWorks]

I know supply is limited for both cameras because neither Canon or Nikon can get enough cameras out of the gates to satisfy their customers, but anyway...

my theory is that, once manufacturing issues are solved, Canon will have to lower the price of their 5D3 because of low sales numbers, given that the D800 is so much better for stills in nearly every image quality metric, and its price is significantly lower too

it's happened before, in the 5D2 vs D700 battle, and in the D7000 vs 60D battle:

* July 2008: Nikon launches D700 at $3000
* Sep 2008: Canon launches much better 5D2 at $2700
* Dec 2008: D700 has fallen to $2320, 5D2 still $2700
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Nikon-12-1MP-FX-Format-Digital-3-0-Inch/product/B001BTCSI6
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Canon-21-1MP-Frame-Digital-Camera/product/B001G5ZTLS

aug-2010: Canon launches 60D at $1400
sep-2010: Nikon launches D7000 at $1200; it's better in some areas (noise, DR, color) but worse in others (mpix, video, swivel screen)
oct-2010: 60D has fallen to $1250, D7000 remains at $1200
since jan-2011: 60D almost always cheaper than D7000
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Canon-60D-3-0-Inch-18-135mm-Standard/product/B0040JHVC2
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Nikon-16-2MP-DX-Format-Digital-3-0-Inch/product/B0042X9LC4

so, here is amazon's list of best selling DSLRs
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941

when it started shipping, the D800 spent about a week in the top position, even if they never actually had it in stock
in the last week, the D800 has been hovering at 4th-5th, while the 5D3 climbed from 18th to 9th, and is back down to 16th now

I'm curious as to how you relate position in an Amazon chart to number of camera's sold.

Let's use a simple example:  The D800 is listed as 5th in that link you supplied.  Did you know the 5D mk2 is listed as 23rd?

So let me ask you....do you think the D800 in 2 months has outsold all the 5D mk2's in the last 3+ years?

The Amazon list does not represent numbers of units sold, that's where you're making a mistake.

[NormanBates]

* this is what it is: consumers buying from amazon; if you can get calumet, bhphoto, etc, to share their sales numbers, please post them here, I'd love to see them

* I won't read too much into this: I know it's just a sorting order, with no information about number of cameras sold; I won't try to compare number of D800 sold with number of 5D2 sold; I will compare number of D800 sold in the last week with number of 5D3 sold in the last week (or whatever period amazon uses; given how it moves, I'd say it's probably a week), and will only say C>N or N>C

* of course the list on the uk site is different: they don't even sell the 5D3 there yet!

[PhilDrinkwater]

So far its low light capabilities are blowing my mind - I can't understand how a camera can have this kind of performance.  I feel like I'm cheating the gods of photography and light somehow.

Your review (and your style of photography) resonated with me, so I thank you.  I just wish I still lived in the UK so I could tag along on one of your shoots! 

<phew>

Yes - it is amazing. Both focussing and the sensor have really allowed a new style of low light work. I can't wait to do some winter weddings with it now - it's going to be amazing! Enjoy it!

Shame you can't..

[lady]

I spoke to the owner of the camera shop I use a couple of weeks ago about the 5D3 and I was told that both Nikon and Canon have been giving the local shops a hard time by not shipping anything to the resellers. He also mentioned that he'll get maybe 2-3 5D3s in one shipping and that's supposed to last him 2-4 weeks. Basically, both companies are trying to create an illusion of high demand for an item. There's no doubt that a lot of people are buying the 5D3, but maybe less than the constantly out-of-stock status would have you believe.

In America in the past, when Nikon releases a camera that competes with a Canon camera at a lower price, canon will match the price, and vice versa. Maybe this won't happen in Europe, but if it's a constant pattern, I can see it happening with the 5D3 in America this year.

[TC1006]

IMHO - I don't see Canon lowering there price anytime soon (atleast for 6 months or more). It is pretty obvious that there is a huge demand for both Canon and Nikon's and they can't manufacture them fast enough to keep up with it. Therefore, I dont see it happening anytime soon.

[davidson]

in my mind, (and i might be very wrong here) i think that sales figures,especially for online retailers, only tell part of the story. sales figures give more of an indication of how successful the MARKETING is. Just because someone buys the camera doesnt mean they like it or that they keep it. FOR EXAMPLE nikon can sell 100 D800's but then 80 people can return or resell them because they are dissatisfied with them. the sales figures will still show 100 sales but it doesnt say how may people actually like/keep the camera. same with canon, same with apple, same with pretty much everything.