Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]

[whatta]

if the rumor is becoming true, it seems finally the AF sys is coming down again after the 30d (into 400d); 40d AF in the 650d then? so the 70d should get the one from the 7d.. and digic 5 of course.

It isn't clear if the 650d will have sensitive af points for f2.8+ like in the 7d & 60d...

is there difference between 60d af and 40d af? thanks

[dlleno]

Compare 36 MP D800 to 12 MP D700. There was a massive 2 stop increase in dynamic range and a massive improvement in high ISO performance as well.

and you are suggesting that these improvements are substantially due simply to the fact that 36 is a bigger number then 12?

[briansquibb]

Compare 36 MP D800 to 12 MP D700. There was a massive 2 stop increase in dynamic range and a massive improvement in high ISO performance as well.

and you are suggesting that these improvements are substantially due simply to the fact that 36 is a bigger number then 12?

Sounds like another DxO score coming up

[Woody]

and you are suggesting that these improvements are substantially due simply to the fact that 36 is a bigger number then 12?

Are you suggesting there's a guaranteed deterioration in performance just because 36 is bigger than 12?

And no, I won't quote numbers. I'll just quote the text. 

"For equal, normalized SNR, a high-resolution camera is still better than a low-resolution camera. While it is always possible to simulate a low-resolution camera using a higher resolution camera (since downsampling is easy), it is not possible to simulate a high-resolution camera using a lower-resolution camera other than by interpolating or inventing data."
- http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Insights/More-pixels-offset-noise!/Conclusion

[riiiche]

Just a wee thought nobody has brought up.

Over here in the UK the current 600D (or t3i) is being advertised DAILY on the telly as the official sponsor of a wee event called Euro 2012. The tournament kicks off june 8th and finishes July 1st.
Canon might be waiting until the tournament  is over and they have shifted as many 600D's as possible before releasing the 650D.

Im currently thinking on taking the plunge on buying the 600D but I dont know if I should wait or not.

[scokar]

18MP again?. Boring.

I know!

Back in the day, every year was one 35mm camera after another.

BUT when that 37mm camera came out -- WOOOO excitement beyond belief!

[tntwit]

so out with the swivel LCD and in with the touch screen? replacing one gimmick by another

Somebody better tell Apple that their iPad is one big touch screen gimmick.  You may not have noticed, but the world is going touch screen, including Windows 8.

One of the reasons I'm not using the Kindle Fire (was given to me as a gift) is the touch screen. As example, it appears whomever designed the device didn't think of people with fingers as big as mine, so I can't type a short URL without fixing it at least three times.

As of Apple, the success of their products is no indication of quality, e.g. the brick with tiny B&W screen sold as a portable computer is a good example. If Apple put it's logo on it, the fanboys would buy petrified dog S___ as a premium air freshener.

The Kindle Fire has fewer sensors than other devices which makes it less precise (from what I'm told).  We bought one for my mother in-law and as much as I like it, it is not always as responsive as you would like.  Like anything else, quality varies, but a touch screen doesn't have to be bad and many are not.

Regarding the comment about those with limited vision, my Panasonic has a touch screen, but the buttons are redundant so you are not required to use the screen.  Further, the implementation may be tricky, but there are standards for designing web pages for those with disabilities for use with such things as screen readers.  Maybe this (or something similar) is something other devices should be following as well.  Even without a touch screen, the navigation through the T3i screen would seemingly be difficult if you cannot see it well, but then maybe once your used to it...?

[preppyak]

Don't confuse the Nikon D5100 auto-focus, with a Sony auto-focus. My NEX 5n, using face detection, does a good job of keeping a person in focus as they walk around a room, even at f/2.8. If Sony can do this, why not Canon

Well, part of it is that they are different technologies. The way a Canon camera autofocuses for pictures is different than how it does in Live View, and video uses the Live View technology. Canon would have to adapt the SLT technology with a translucent mirror to auto-focus in the exact same way a Sony does. In doing so, they'd give up all the photographic advantages of the mirror, which isn't worth it. Basically, the Nikon autofocus sucks because it doesn't use the focus sensor (due to the mirror being up). I doubt Canon will have solved this in a way that makes it comparable with what sony has in their SLT's, let alone what the FS-700 has.

The FS-700's AF is impressive (though he admitted it makes mistakes that he doesn't show), but, it's also technology from a $10k plus camera...I don't expect Canon to implement that in their Rebel line and have skipped the 5DIII with it.

[whatta]

18MP again?. Boring.

I know!

Back in the day, every year was one 35mm camera after another.

BUT when that 37mm camera came out -- WOOOO excitement beyond belief!

here we're talking about resolution, and not about size 
back then you could increase the resolution for the same camera with a better film (eg low iso)

[dlleno]

and you are suggesting that these improvements are substantially due simply to the fact that 36 is a bigger number then 12?

Are you suggesting there's a guaranteed deterioration in performance just because 36 is bigger than 12?

And no, I won't quote numbers. I'll just quote the text. 

"For equal, normalized SNR, a high-resolution camera is still better than a low-resolution camera. While it is always possible to simulate a low-resolution camera using a higher resolution camera (since downsampling is easy), it is not possible to simulate a high-resolution camera using a lower-resolution camera other than by interpolating or inventing data."
- http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Insights/More-pixels-offset-noise!/Conclusion

and the D800 and D700 are equal in  normalized SNR?   

[Lee Jay]

Compare 36 MP D800 to 12 MP D700. There was a massive 2 stop increase in dynamic range and a massive improvement in high ISO performance as well.

and you are suggesting that these improvements are substantially due simply to the fact that 36 is a bigger number then 12?

A good bit of it is, yes.

[BXL]

Indeed, and Canon just wouldn't put a sensor into the 650d that can outgun the more expensive aps-c bodies. That's why they called it "650d", there will be a 70d with a sensor upgrade and *then* they'll put into a "700d".

Why not... think of the 450D (12 MP), which outgunned the 40D (12 MP). After the 450D, the 50D got a new 15 MP sensor. There is no reason why the 650D shouldn't get a new sensor, which will be later outperformed by the sensor of the 7D2.

[Marsu42]

]
Why not... think of the 450D (12 MP), which outgunned the 40D (12 MP). After the 450D, the 50D got a new 15 MP sensor. There is no reason why the 650D shouldn't get a new sensor, which will be later outperformed by the sensor of the 7D2.

I know - but the 18mp sensor has been around for so long, when Canon updates it it's not just another day in the office, thus they'll save it to make some money with it - people will or won't buy the 650d no matter what sensor is in it. The real competition is Nikon, and Canon cannot go to 24mp - so why rock the boat? Another problem with a better sensor in the 650d is that it would cannibalize the 60d which is feature-cut in comparison to the 40d and 50d you cited.

Unlike the 40d/50d days, Canon's problem seems to be that with their current sensor tech, their aps-c design has reached some ceiling with 18mp. If they increase the mp count they'll have to trade it for more noise and less dr even more than 40d->50d. And if they keep it at 18mp the improvement might be as minor as 5d2->5d3.

[briansquibb]

Why not... think of the 450D (12 MP), which outgunned the 40D (12 MP).

Funniest comment of the night

[preppyak]

The real competition is Nikon, and Canon cannot go to 24mp - so why rock the boat? Another problem with a better sensor in the 650d is that it would cannibalize the 60d which is feature-cut in comparison to the 40d and 50d you cited.

Which is why they'll release a 70D sometime in the early fall with some upgrades to counter that.

There's still be reasons to get the 60D over the T4i (ergonomics, burst rate, button layout, etc)...they'd be the same as the T3i really, with the exception of the auto-focus.