Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]

[Marsu42]

And, of course, there is a bunch of 5d mkII on the second hand market now, but I have to remind myself that I'm a amateur photographer, and a 650d would be just enough for my needs.

Coming from the 50d, even as an somehow advanced amateur (so am I atm) maybe you'll find that the xxxd bodies lack the ability to quickly change settings, so you might still be better off with a 60d which has dropped in price quite a lot since it was introduced. And I hope your f2.8 lenses don't need af micro adjustment, because the xxxd and 60d don't have it...

[briansquibb]

but I have to remind myself that I'm a amateur photographer, and a 650d would be just enough for my needs.

Because you are amateur it means there is no professional consideraions to consider when purchasing kit.

I am an amateur too - making do is not an issue for me

[zaphod]

And, of course, there is a bunch of 5d mkII on the second hand market now, but I have to remind myself that I'm a amateur photographer, and a 650d would be just enough for my needs.

[...] And I hope your f2.8 lenses don't need af micro adjustment, because the xxxd and 60d don't have it...

Yes, that's a good point. For what I know the lenses don't need micro adjustment, I think I did some tests back in 2008. And a deal breaker for me is almost always the small size of the xxxD bodies. But I thought this was the right place to be talked into what i "really" need.

[Marsu42]

But I thought this was the right place to be talked into what i "really" need.

Well, you're coming from a rather good body (50d) so your main decision will be if you can live with a (temporal) downgrade to make up your mind if you'll get into photography again. Getting an ok body like 60d and up shouldn't cost you much because you can sell it later on if you decide so. You lenses actually want to be used on a full frame body (5d) because they are known to have not so great image quality on crop bodies, and esp. your wide-angle lens is wasted on crop because it isn't wide anymore and there are cheaper and better ef-s lenses.

But the usability of the xxxd line is really made only to appeal to people who never used anything but, personally I'd have a nervous breakdown and a cramp in the hand after using the small rebels for some time. And the viewfinder and such is even worse than the other Canon crop bodies so it's no fun either :-o

But if you really want more detailed advice, maybe start another topic and tell us more about what you're going to shoot etc.

[roger1]

I have a dilemma.
I own the original 300D Rebel and would like to upgrade before my big Hawaii trip come July 10th.
Been thinking about getting a T3i but I'd really hate to buy last year's model if the T4i is coming out in the next couple of weeks.

I know it's going to cost me significantly more to get a T4i as they won't be discounted at all right at first.
I can get a new T3i body for right about $490 with that $400 off combo rebate deal they have with a printer (I'd sell the printer on eBay) and I figure a T4i body only is probably going to be around $750.
I' still go for a T4i if I have time but I wish I knew if it were going be in time right now.

[realneyc]

I'm looking forwards to an updated sensor too, but since t2i, t3i, 60D, 7D all have the same sensor, it would be really awkward to have a better sensor in t4i before they update 60D and 7D....like someone said before, they want the customers to move to higher end...

[RLPhoto]

Canon has made 2 new full frame sensors.

Canon I assume will make 2 New Crop sensors as well.

[dlleno]

I'm looking forwards to an updated sensor too, but since t2i, t3i, 60D, 7D all have the same sensor, it would be really awkward to have a better sensor in t4i before they update 60D and 7D....like someone said before, they want the customers to move to higher end...

Canon has shown us in the past that they are willing to use the Rebels to showcase a new sensor, I presume to prove it in the field first, and fine tune the mfg process perhaps.  REcent history of the XXD versus the Rebels, in fact, shows that it is more comon for the Rebels to "lead".  Examples;  While the 30D body was resting on its 8MP laurals, the 400D Rebel appeared with its 10MP sensor, and it wasnt for another year that this 10MP sensor  appeared in the 40D.  But soon after 40D appeared with 10MP, Canon promptly introduced the 450D Rebel with a 12MP sensor 6 months later, and this "lead" remaind for another nine months,  until the 50 was introduced with 15MP. 

The 50D briefly lead the 15MP sensor wars for about 3 months before the Rebel 500D followed suit, but then Canon Releaed the 7D shortly thereafter with the 18MP sensor which trickled down, you guessed it, to the Rebel 550D first, and this "lead" (over the XXD)  continued for 6 months before 18MP appeared in the 60D.

so it would not surprise me at all to see a new sensor appear in the T4i.  maybe it will be 18.4 or something "ish"  that can still be called "18MP" but still signal a new sensor

[Marsu42]

maybe it will be 18.4 or something "ish"  that can still be called "18MP" but still signal a new sensor

I'd be fairly surprised if they stick with exactly 18mp and don't call 18.5 "19mp" for marketing reasons, because the mp count is one of the main specs that will appear in every comparison list - or else they wouldn't have put a minor mp upgrade in the 5d3.

[dlleno]

maybe it will be 18.4 or something "ish"  that can still be called "18MP" but still signal a new sensor

I'd be fairly surprised if they stick with exactly 18mp and don't call 18.5 "19mp" for marketing reasons, because the mp count is one of the main specs that will appear in every comparison list - or else they wouldn't have put a minor mp upgrade in the 5d3.

I hear you.  this is one of the most confusing aspects of this discussion.  the site owner here calls it a CR2.5 level rumor, which says information suspected with some credibiltiy at this point is that the sensor is stil 18MP.  ok I get that this information is more trustworthy than my opinion.   but still it would be courageous for Canon to update a MP-war camera with no incremental salvo.  If it truly does come in at 18-ish MP, yes I agree with your assessment that they will call it something attractive.  Its just that if we believe the CR2.5 we have to agree that 18MP is it, no matter how much it would surprise me to see it. 

maybe the MP wars are over and entry level DSLR buyers are suddenly more educated and will see value in a new 18MP sensor that will take better pictures!   

[Marsu42]

Its just that if we believe the CR2.5 we have to agree that 18MP is it

I'm reading this site for 1.5 years now, I can say that even a [CR3] isn't really trustworthy and just a rumor, let alone anything else [CRx]. And in this case the site owner even wrote he's not sure about the sensor - so atm, imho your guess is as good as mine or cr's.

Canon is very secretive about their releases and follow in Apple's footsteps but without giving some gimmick information to friendly sites once in a while - so this site is the dark, too.

[dlleno]

Its just that if we believe the CR2.5 we have to agree that 18MP is it

I'm reading this site for 1.5 years now, I can say that even a [CR3] isn't really trustworthy and just a rumor, let alone anything else [CRx]. And in this case the site owner even wrote he's not sure about the sensor - so atm, imho your guess is as good as mine or cr's.

Canon is very secretive about their releases and follow in Apple's footsteps but without giving some gimmick information to friendly sites once in a while - so this site is the dark, too.

well he wrote that he's not sure if the 18MP sensor is a new one or not.  But yea that aside you make a good point, and I'm surprised the owner didn't editorialize and comment on the what it might mean to make no advance in the MP wars, keeping 18MP.  Accordingly, I suggest (1)  it would be courageous of Canon to update the Rebel and NOT update the 3 year old sensor.  That would be rather boring, as others have pointed out.  (2) if the sensor is new, it would be courageous of Canon to keep the MP at 18MP, in a camera on the front lines of the MP wars.  THAT would be boring too, but very intriguing to be sure!

this Rebel intro should give us a whole new set of clues into the rest of the 1.6x bodies! 

[neuroanatomist]

I'd be fairly surprised if they stick with exactly 18mp and don't call 18.5 "19mp" for marketing reasons, because the mp count is one of the main specs that will appear in every comparison list - or else they wouldn't have put a minor mp upgrade in the 5d3.

Not unprecedented.  The T3i/600D and T2i/550D have the same MP count, as do the 30D and 20D.

[Marsu42]

Not unprecedented.  The T3i/600D and T2i/550D have the same MP count, as do the 30D and 20D.

But at least the 600d/650d have the exact same sensor, too, not just the same mp count. To shape internal product differences, if Canon bites the bullet and upgrades the sensor itsself meaning new production lines they might be inclined to add a recognizable number to it. That's for "internal" competition and upgrade users, we don't know how many people upgrade from xxxd to xxxd+1 or xxxd+2.

(2) if the sensor is new, it would be courageous of Canon to keep the MP at 18MP, in a camera on the front lines of the MP wars.  THAT would be boring too, but very intriguing to be sure!

On the other hand, maybe they figure that for "external" competition with 24mp Nikon, since they cannot win they'd better not enter the race at all. And market it as their own "18mp is enough" decision because of noise and dr levels...

[dlleno]

I'd be fairly surprised if they stick with exactly 18mp and don't call 18.5 "19mp" for marketing reasons, because the mp count is one of the main specs that will appear in every comparison list - or else they wouldn't have put a minor mp upgrade in the 5d3.

Not unprecedented.  The T3i/600D and T2i/550D have the same MP count, as do the 30D and 20D.

right.  Moreover, the above example also have the same production sensor.   As for historical precident, the Rebels tyically "lead" the XXD in the introduction of new sensors.  For example, while the 30D was resting on its 8MP laurals, Canon introduced the 10MP Sensor to the Rebel, and this "lead" remained for about a year before the 40 got it -- but then Canon introduced the 12MP sensor to the Rebel to "regain the lead".  The notable excption to this "Rebel leads" practice is that for about 6 months, the 50D did "lead" with 15MP but then the 7D intro'd with the 18MP sensor and this trickeled down to, you guessed it, the Rebel -- before the 60D got it.

my conclusion is that Canon uses the Rebels as proving ground for new sensors and turns over this product line more rapidly, due to market pressure and the entry level customer requiring rapid refresh cycles. 

What is unusual this time is that we have already 2 Rebel generations with the same sensor which itself is 3 years old (because 7D got it first).   In my opinion, it would be unusual  to introduce a third Rebel update with the same sensor and it is unusual for a 1.6x sensor to last that long in the first place.  Yes, the rapid,  MP-war driven  pace at which sensors were introduced has calmed down, but my observation is that the Rebel life cycle is still designed to be short, compared to other bodies.

so - just from historical extrapolation the weight of evidence suggests a new sensor in the Rebel.  the CR sources are likely more reliable than my opinion, so I remain confused as to why Canon would intro this one without being able to market some progress re:  the sensor.