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Author Topic: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]  (Read 43236 times)

dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #135 on: May 22, 2012, 01:10:49 PM »
On the other hand, maybe they figure that for "external" competition with 24mp Nikon, since they cannot win they'd better not enter the race at all. And market it as their own "18mp is enough" decision because of noise and dr levels...

could be;  that will be interesting to watch, to be sure.  the other vector here is that Rebels represent the customer segment least likely to have a heavy investment in Canon glass, and probably the least loyal.  it is where new or replacement camera buyers go looking for a consumer DSLR and those with a lick of sense will compare the competition, including the labels on the box, signs at Costco, etc,  and the majority of THOSE comparative shoppers are the least likely to understand the trade-offs between pixel density, DR, and noise.  Canon may see it differently of course, but generally speaking, the consumer masses are a fickle bunch, and the spec wars are waged in the arena of public acceptance, not necessarily technical superiority:  Witness the VHS versis Beta market, for those old enough to remember it. 

Maybe that will be an asset to Canon -- If Canon can convince the MP war consumers of some of the downsides to higher pixel density,  then I can see your point .  It will not be an easy road, when Sony is producing sensors that don't have those same tradeoffs :-)  That said I'm hoping Canon has a trump card up its sleeve and can stay competitive, which of course will benefit the Nikon buyers as well. 

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #135 on: May 22, 2012, 01:10:49 PM »

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #136 on: May 22, 2012, 01:48:26 PM »
I remain confused as to why Canon would intro this one without being able to market some progress re:  the sensor.

Maybe the 70d and 7d2 are further away than we'd wish, and Canon doesn't want to cannibalize their 60d sales ...

In my opinion, it would be unusual  to introduce a third Rebel update with the same sensor and it is unusual for a 1.6x sensor to last that long in the first place.

... or, as I'm not growing tired of speculating: Canon simply cannot do any better in the aps-c segment at the moment.

dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #137 on: May 22, 2012, 02:06:34 PM »
In my opinion, it would be unusual  to introduce a third Rebel update with the same sensor and it is unusual for a 1.6x sensor to last that long in the first place.

... or, as I'm not growing tired of speculating: Canon simply cannot do any better in the aps-c segment at the moment.

:D lol well, what a fun show to watch...  if Canon simply cannot do any better in the aps-c segment, then you could be right they are just squeezing the last bit of blood out of that turnip by introducing a single Digic-5 Rebel with measureably better IQ than Digic 4. 

But if this were the case, time is running out for Canon to either produce or buy a better sensor!

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #138 on: May 22, 2012, 03:18:04 PM »
But if this were the case, time is running out for Canon to either produce or buy a better sensor!

It's indeed interesting - and one way out of the dilemma that they cannot compete with Sony's sensor tech nor milk their 18mp for an unlimited amount of time is to introduce an entry full frame body, as it's often speculated.

If time is running out for Canon, it's very slowly: about 2/3 of dslr users I see running around in Berlin are using a Canon Rebel, then 1/3 Nikon and some cheaper Sony, apart from one or two rich 5d amateurs. In the entry segment, Canon is a well-known brand, has its distribution and marketing set up nicely. And in the higher segment, people are stuck to Canon because they've got EF lenses.

Sean

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #139 on: May 23, 2012, 04:19:33 AM »
So, I've got a new question for the panel. :P Since we apparently know nothing other than it'll either be a Canon T4i or an apple tree when it comes out, what about value? Specifically, I ask because we currently seem to be expecting an announcement or release sometime- any time in the next month or so.

What are your thoughts on how much prices will shift and over what time frame? (Relatively)

My situation is similar to those pondering an upgrade, however I've never owned a DSLR before. And my overall pocket for investing is small enough to rule out a T4i purchase simply because it'll cost more than the (example) 618.00 dollars USD with which I can currently buy a T3i body new. So somewhat sadly yet fortunate, I at least don't have to worry as much whether it'll have a Digic V. But it does leave me wondering whether to wait, and if so how long, to make a purchase on the T3i.

Other random info: I'll be spending the rest ($450ish) on a specific lens. So it could hurt ones soul to lose anywhere from $50 to $150 just because of hard to nail down release schedules and that life doesn't too often align with them neatly. Thanks for reading. =)

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #140 on: May 23, 2012, 04:41:56 AM »
So, I've got a new question for the panel. :P Since we apparently know nothing other than it'll either be a Canon T4i or an apple tree when it comes out, what about value? Specifically, I ask because we currently seem to be expecting an announcement or release sometime- any time in the next month or so.

What are your thoughts on how much prices will shift and over what time frame? (Relatively)

My situation is similar to those pondering an upgrade, however I've never owned a DSLR before. And my overall pocket for investing is small enough to rule out a T4i purchase simply because it'll cost more than the (example) 618.00 dollars USD with which I can currently buy a T3i body new. So somewhat sadly yet fortunate, I at least don't have to worry as much whether it'll have a Digic V. But it does leave me wondering whether to wait, and if so how long, to make a purchase on the T3i.

Other random info: I'll be spending the rest ($450ish) on a specific lens. So it could hurt ones soul to lose anywhere from $50 to $150 just because of hard to nail down release schedules and that life doesn't too often align with them neatly. Thanks for reading. =)

A refurb/used T3i with better glass might be a prudent approach. That was when you come to upgrade the T3i you will have good glass to put on it.

Sean

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #141 on: May 24, 2012, 01:53:51 AM »
A refurb/used T3i with better glass might be a prudent approach. That was when you come to upgrade the T3i you will have good glass to put on it.

True. I haven't precluded that, really. But the idea of the question was to ask how far model prices tend to move upon new releases, since I didn't think that would be entirely off topic. One nice thing I've noticed is that they tend to retain value pretty well. :)

Personally though, I've looked on Canon's eStore and a refurbished body is only about $58 dollars less while they add all but about eight back through tax and Fedex shipping. And Adorama doesn't seem to have any listed at the moment so I couldn't compare theirs and if they do similarly or not. Given that it seems worth the ten'ish dollars to buy new from Newegg, unless I've missed something. I've also heard about the Canon loyalty program, but again I don't have anything to trade in anyway.

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #141 on: May 24, 2012, 01:53:51 AM »

walksinhearts

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #142 on: May 24, 2012, 01:49:34 PM »
Have a look here - http://camerapricebuster.co.uk/prod1211.html - it's uk price based but it should give a fair indication of how far and how fast prices fall.

A refurb/used T3i with better glass might be a prudent approach. That was when you come to upgrade the T3i you will have good glass to put on it.

True. I haven't precluded that, really. But the idea of the question was to ask how far model prices tend to move upon new releases, since I didn't think that would be entirely off topic. One nice thing I've noticed is that they tend to retain value pretty well. :)

Personally though, I've looked on Canon's eStore and a refurbished body is only about $58 dollars less while they add all but about eight back through tax and Fedex shipping. And Adorama doesn't seem to have any listed at the moment so I couldn't compare theirs and if they do similarly or not. Given that it seems worth the ten'ish dollars to buy new from Newegg, unless I've missed something. I've also heard about the Canon loyalty program, but again I don't have anything to trade in anyway.

RobS10

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #143 on: May 28, 2012, 08:54:37 AM »
Any updates on a release date? I am shopping for my first DSLR, and like a lot of folks am looking hard at the D5100 vs T3i tradeoffs. According to most reviews and buzz, the Nikon seems to have the better image quality because of it's sensor, as well as some of the in-camera lens correction the Canon doesn't have (CA and lens geometry distortion correction). In playing around with the two, I much prefer the ergonomics of the Canon (and have a Speedlite from my old 3G to make use of)), but of course it's hard to ignore the Nikon's IQ reputation. I tend to buy things and hold onto them for a while, so I hate the idea of upgrading in a year or so (not to mention the expense) if the T4i is about to be released. I'd rather wait and see if Canon makes important updates (without killing what I do like about the camera) but of course would love to have a camera soon with summer upon us.

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #144 on: May 28, 2012, 09:00:46 AM »
Any updates on a release date? I am shopping for my first DSLR

The 650d most likely won't have a huge iq improvement, it's about features (video af, touchscreen). In any case, if you wait for it you there won't be much summer left to use it... concerning your speedlite you should check if it has the ettl, or you won't have much fun with it either on the newer digital bodies.

And if you're so set on iq, either Nikon or Canon are a wash, because it much more depends on a good lens. Personally, I got the 60d over the d7000 with the better specs because I just like the usability of the Canon better and it runs a hacked firmware (magic lantern) which adds so much more over out of the box Nikon.

RobS10

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #145 on: May 28, 2012, 09:14:37 AM »

The 650d most likely won't have a huge iq improvement, it's about features (video af, touchscreen). In any case, if you wait for it you there won't be much summer left to use it... concerning your speedlite you should check if it has the ettl, or you won't have much fun with it either on the newer digital bodies.
Not interested in a touchscreen or higher MP count so much., but the video AF addition would be a big plus, and all auto focus points for stills being more like the 60D would be nice. BTW, my Speedlite is a 420EX, which is supposed to be compatible with most features.

And if you're so set on iq, either Nikon or Canon are a wash, because it much more depends on a good lens. Personally, I got the 60d over the d7000 with the better specs because I just like the usability of the Canon better and it runs a hacked firmware (magic lantern) which adds so much more over out of the box Nikon.
That's the tough decision. Because of it's better ergonomics in my hand (more dedicated buttons, familiar menu) I feel like the Canon is more fun to use, and so what if the Nikon has marginally (?) better IQ, but I don't really want to buy both, shoot a bunch of photos and return the one I don't like as many people do (Costco has both models and that great return policy). I did read about ML and forgot what "features" it adds, but sounds like a nice bonus. :D
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 09:20:40 AM by RobS10 »

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #146 on: May 28, 2012, 09:25:03 AM »
I did read about ML and forgot what "features" it adds, but sounds like a nice bonus. :D

As an amateur and buying a body in this class, you shouldn't worry about minor iq differences in the sensor - you are very likely not to notice them. However, you will notice the fact that you get a cramp in your hand if the body doesn't fit it, or that you get a nervous breakdown because you hate the ergonomics.

Magic lantern is *the* killer feature for video and very handy for stills (unlimited automatic bracketing, focus stacking, focus peeking, focus trapping, ...): http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Unified/UserGuide

RobS10

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #147 on: May 28, 2012, 11:48:42 AM »
As an amateur and buying a body in this class, you shouldn't worry about minor iq differences in the sensor - you are very likely not to notice them.
Hoping that's the case. Depends on where you read though...some places make it sound a little more pronounced but trying to take them with a grain of salt.
However, you will notice the fact that you get a cramp in your hand if the body doesn't fit it.
I have large hands, so I prefer the Canon.
or that you get a nervous breakdown because you hate the ergonomics.
LOL!!

Magic lantern is *the* killer feature for video and very handy for stills (unlimited automatic bracketing, focus stacking, focus peeking, focus trapping, ...): http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Unified/UserGuide
I take it ML is pretty stable, and not much risk in "bricking" the body?

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #147 on: May 28, 2012, 11:48:42 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #148 on: May 28, 2012, 12:13:01 PM »
I take it ML is pretty stable, and not much risk in "bricking" the body?

Canon generally isn't more for big hands than anything other, they distinguish their lineup with this, too. They used to sell $30 exchangeable large grips in the analog days, now you have to get a $300 battery grip or a $3000 larger body. For me, anything smaller than the 60d is an absolute no-go because I don't use a strap.

ML is 99,9% stable, the only thing to remember is when it should hang (didn't happen for a year for me, it was still alpha then) is to take out the battery to cut the power. Nowadays, this might only happen if one of your own scripts hangs - yes, you can write a script yourself (lua language) and then play pong or pacman on your display or do any number of automation things that make more sense. You can uninstall ml anytime, too.

RobS10

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #149 on: May 28, 2012, 01:25:18 PM »
Canon generally isn't more for big hands than anything other, they distinguish their lineup with this, too. They used to sell $30 exchangeable large grips in the analog days, now you have to get a $300 battery grip or a $3000 larger body. For me, anything smaller than the 60d is an absolute no-go because I don't use a strap.
I didn't notice the Nikon was much smaller, but most reviews seem to think it's perhaps more cramped. Every time I take pictures of the family and have to hunt around to change settings, my wife gets impatient.  I know you get used to whatever you have, but the more direct function buttons, the better. I liked the way the 60d felt too (and especially liked top screen, battery life and burst rate), but trying to keep my budget reasonable. As far as ML, it least it looks like it installs on the card and isn't like fiddling with the camera's internal FW and can be taken off easily...thnaks for the info ;)

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Specs [CR2.5]
« Reply #149 on: May 28, 2012, 01:25:18 PM »