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Author Topic: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D  (Read 10660 times)

Northstar

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2012, 03:10:43 PM »
I have a Nikon d7000 and Canon 5d3.

For your price range, I'd suggest the Nikon d7000 over the 60d, and I'd suggest just one lens -the Nikon 18-200 vrii.
This is a very good combination.  and, you won't have to carry an extra lens or worry about changing lenses.

From my reading/experience, they're both great cameras, but the d7000 AF and low light shooting are better...both of which will be important for the type of shooting you're describing.

Good luck either way, they're both good cameras that should bring years of enjoyment.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 03:13:01 PM by Northstar »
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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2012, 03:10:43 PM »

Lyra Video Productions

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2012, 04:42:44 PM »
60D is a great camera--I've got one myself.  I've also shot on a D7000 at work, but primarily for video and time lapses--both are great cameras for the price; though the 60D wins for video.

I'd agree with some earlier posters and say see what happens in the next month before you buy, if you can.  Whatever ends up coming out may affect your decision--or may affect the prices of current cameras and if you're looking for used..

I can't say I've had any experience with the lenses you mentioned.  If budget is an issue, just go with what you can afford.  You won't be unhappy with what you get.  You can always upgrade later on.  But if you feel like shelling out some extra dough, consider going for some L glass.  If you take good care of it, it will last a long time.

And I understand the desire to get lenses with lots of versatility/big range--I had a similar set up with my first DSLR, the nikon D40.  Could I have gotten better image quality from a more expensive lens with less range?  sure.  am I sorry I got the lenses I did?  Nope--for me at the time that cheap dslr and cheap lenses were great.  Some of my best shots to this day were on that camera.

Pix8ion

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2012, 12:14:26 AM »
Huge thanks to everyone for the thoughts and advice!  I'm definitely rethinking my initial choice of lenses and taking a fresh look at online reviews. 

I'm definitely set on the 60D or upcoming replacement (may end up holding off until June to see what happens).  I've compared the T3i to the 60D and the T3i just feels small in my hand whereas the 60D fits well -- that may be a problem for my wife, but hey this is for me.   ;)   Also, I definitely want to utilize the manual controls and not just rely on the auto settings (a main reason to get away from P&S).

For the quote below, the kids will pose, but not for very long.  They're getting better, but slowly.  The dog on the other hand.....   :P


How old are your children?  Will they stand still for a photo, or do have under-10's who never stop moving?

Other than family pics, I'm also planning ahead for kids sporting and nature (landscape, wildlife, etc.).  Again, just getting into higher-end photography (i.e., not just P&S), so not trying to break the bank just yet.  Looking for lenses that will enable me to build basic skills yet still take solid pics -- and make me want to upgrade over time.

One last question, the recommended lenses included some EF and EF-S.  While I know that both fit the 60D, I'm less clear on what the impacts are to the perceived focal length and/or quality.  Online postings seem to be somewhat contradictory on this matter.  My understanding is that pictures taken with, say, 50mm focal length EF and EF-S lenses be framed differently on an aps-c sensor (as in the 60D) versus a FF sensor.  Because of this, some postings have mentioned that an EF lens on an aps-c sensor will effectively extend the reach of the lens -- turning the 50mm into a 80mm lens (1.6x crop factor).  If both a FF and aps-c sensor have the same MPs (when using the same EF lens on two different bodies), does this really happen or are there impacts to image quality?  As a result, is it best to stay with a lens specifically made for an aps-c sensor (i.e., an EF-S lens) versus a FF lens?  Guess that was more than one question....  :-[  To the extent possible, I'd prefer to lean to EF lenses purely for the long-term reuse should I make the jump to a FF body.

Again, thanks for all the help and my apologies if the above is your basic run-of-the-mill noob questioning.  I've tried to answer it using existing online resources, but just can't find a decent answer.

robbymack

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2012, 01:54:22 AM »
I'll say it again for the one millionth time, buy the lens for the camera you own TODAY no the camera you will own tomorrow. Who knows what you will want in a few years time?  Tech moves so fast don't worry about it. In 6 months canon could introduce a mirror less ff so why worry about that which you cannot control. You're buying a crop sensor so make use of it and save some cash with ef-s lens where reasonable. The 17-55 2.8 should be at the top of your list.

briansquibb

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2012, 01:59:07 AM »
The 17-55 2.8 should be at the top of your list.

A cheap ef-s lens?

L lens start kicking in at that price. The OP was clearly looking for something longer - the 70-200 f/4 would be cheaper than the 17-55

!Xabbu

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2012, 08:15:27 AM »
One last question, the recommended lenses included some EF and EF-S.  While I know that both fit the 60D, I'm less clear on what the impacts are to the perceived focal length and/or quality.  Online postings seem to be somewhat contradictory on this matter.  My understanding is that pictures taken with, say, 50mm focal length EF and EF-S lenses be framed differently on an aps-c sensor (as in the 60D) versus a FF sensor.  Because of this, some postings have mentioned that an EF lens on an aps-c sensor will effectively extend the reach of the lens -- turning the 50mm into a 80mm lens (1.6x crop factor).  If both a FF and aps-c sensor have the same MPs (when using the same EF lens on two different bodies), does this really happen or are there impacts to image quality?  As a result, is it best to stay with a lens specifically made for an aps-c sensor (i.e., an EF-S lens) versus a FF lens?  Guess that was more than one question....  :-[  To the extent possible, I'd prefer to lean to EF lenses purely for the long-term reuse should I make the jump to a FF body.

Again, thanks for all the help and my apologies if the above is your basic run-of-the-mill noob questioning.  I've tried to answer it using existing online resources, but just can't find a decent answer.

Hi Pix8ion,

The focal lens is the same for EF and EF-S lenses. However, a 50mm lens (both EF and EF-S) will give you a 80mm FF equivalent field of view on a crop sensor camera. This means that you will need something below 18mm, if you want to shoot really really wide.

As to your questions - I would stay away from kit lenses and cheap lenses. I got a 450D with kit lens a few years back and the IQ was horrible. As soon as I upgraded to my Tamron 17-50mm I started understanding what the DSLR rave was really about and getting my 70-200mm f/4 L opened a whole new world for me. Lenses have a much bigger impact than the body can ever have.

RC

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2012, 10:03:30 AM »
...I'm definitely set on the 60D or upcoming replacement (may end up holding off until June to see what happens).  I've compared the T3i to the 60D and the T3i just feels small in my hand whereas the 60D fits well...
Good decision and great choice, the wait game can drive one nuts.

One last question, the recommended lenses included some EF and EF-S.  While I know that both fit the 60D, I'm less clear on what the impacts are to the perceived focal length and/or quality.  Online postings seem to be somewhat contradictory on this matter.  My understanding is that pictures taken with, say, 50mm focal length EF and EF-S lenses be framed differently on an aps-c sensor (as in the 60D) versus a FF sensor.  Because of this, some postings have mentioned that an EF lens on an aps-c sensor will effectively extend the reach of the lens -- turning the 50mm into a 80mm lens (1.6x crop factor).

Focal length is focal length.   Just think of a APS-C camera (60D) like a 1.6 teleconvertor.  On Canon's crop sensor cameras, multiple the focal length whether it is an EF-S or EF, by 1.6 to get the FF equivalent.   EF-S lenses will not physically fit on a FF body and shouldn't because the FF mirror can hit the rear lens element.  So buy the lens you need and want for the body you have whether it's an EF-S or EF.    (In my case I have a 7D and no EF-S lens not because I'm getting ready for FF, but because I chose the best lens for my needs.)

EF lens do not resolve any less detail when used on a crop body.    So don't worry about losing anything if you chose an EF over a  EF-S lens.  In fact if anything, a crop body can't see the edges of a EF lens (where its prone to be less sharp) like a FF can.  The experts on this site can define all this much more scientifically.

Typical focal lengths in FF:
24mm (15mm on a 60D) - Landscapes (obviously wider is nice too)
50mm - 135mm (31mm - 85mm on a 60D) - typical for portraits (of course any lens can be used, but outside of this range you have to be more careful of distortion)
50mm (31mm on a 60D) - normal FOV  approximately what your eyes see


Final tips: 

If you expect to get into photography seriously, and if you can, spend a little more now and get good glass.  IMO, I don't like the "start out with this lens now" and then "upgrade to this lens later" strategy.  Do your homework (it sounds like you have) and get what you want up front.

Buy gear incrementally.  Get some experience with your body and main lens, then use that experience to choose your next lens.

Good luck


« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 12:40:17 PM by RC »

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2012, 10:03:30 AM »

ruuneos

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2012, 11:42:21 AM »
Simply:
 - Choose DSLR body which fills all your needs from it.

elflord

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2012, 01:34:38 PM »

One thing I'd suggest -- avoid the temptation to cover every focal length at the expense of everything else. There's a big advantage to faster glass, the mistake beginners usually make is that they get some 18-270mm zoom at the expense of everything else.

Also, start with at least one prime in your kit even if it's just the 50mm f/1.8. Especially if your zooms are all slow variable aperture zooms, a fast prime will really help for portrait shots.

I'd recommend one general purpose like the 15-85, 17-55 f/2.8. or the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8. Would skip long tele to begin with unless you have a specific application in mind.

elflord

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2012, 03:11:24 PM »
For your price range, I'd suggest the Nikon d7000 over the 60d, and I'd suggest just one lens -the Nikon 18-200 vrii.
This is a very good combination.  and, you won't have to carry an extra lens or worry about changing lenses.

From my reading/experience, they're both great cameras, but the d7000 AF and low light shooting are better...both of which will be important for the type of shooting you're describing.

Good luck either way, they're both good cameras that should bring years of enjoyment.

A slow super zoom covers all focal lengths but doesn't give you much control over exposure or depth of field, and you also compromise in terms of image quality.

Especially for low light shooting, fast glass is important (and makes much more difference than the body). For low light shots, The 50mm f/1.4 and a flash on a Rebel T1 will be light years ahead of a D700 or a 5D Mk III with a slow superzoom.


« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 03:14:35 PM by elflord »

boateggs

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2012, 03:58:49 PM »

The 24-105 is a good choice because it is mid-wide to mid-telephoto, has image stabilization, and is sharp.  The f/4 is not very fast, but you can add a 50mm f/1.8, which is an inexpensive fast lens for low light situations.

My advice is to get the camera refurbished from Adorama.  You get a $100 discount from the new 60D price and Adorama provides a 1 year warranty.  I bought my Canon point & shoot refurbished from Adorama and it was like a brand new camera.

Get the best lens(es) you can afford.  The quality of your shots will be more dependent on your lens than the camera.  Do not skimp here.  Below is a good link for lens reviews.

Reviews: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-Lenses/Canon-General-Purpose-Lens.aspx

+1, although i mostly agree.  skip the 24-105, that is a full frame lens (havent used it, just my opinion).

Scrappydog mentioned a refurb camera from Adorama, try looking at getting a refurb from Canon direct.  A 60d is 800$ and if you do the CLP with a broken $10 ebay camera you will get 20% off the camera plus whatever lenses you get at the same time.  I was going to get a 60d & 15-85mm lens through the refurb store next week fro $1150 plus tax but have put that on hold with the recent rumors.  Plus, from my reading, the refurb lenses from Canon are better than new as they have all been individually inspected.

My personal buying habits have been to skip the 17-55 f2.8 and get a zoom with more range (15-85, ordering that on Monday) and pair it with a fast prime or 2 (50/1.8 & 30/1.4) for low light.  In my case will end up with 3 lenses for roughly the same price as the 17-55 and i will have greater range plus better low light capabilities at frequently used focal lengths.

In the long run you will be happy, just dont go too nuts at first.  Learn and then buy rather than buy what you think you need and gain another expensive paper weight
T3i | 15-85mm | 70-300mm L | ∑ 30mm | ∑ 50mm | 430exII

jebrady03

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2012, 04:33:06 PM »

One thing I'd suggest -- avoid the temptation to cover every focal length at the expense of everything else. There's a big advantage to faster glass, the mistake beginners usually make is that they get some 18-270mm zoom at the expense of everything else.

Also, start with at least one prime in your kit even if it's just the 50mm f/1.8. Especially if your zooms are all slow variable aperture zooms, a fast prime will really help for portrait shots.

I'd recommend one general purpose like the 15-85, 17-55 f/2.8. or the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8. Would skip long tele to begin with unless you have a specific application in mind.

I think this is the best advice in this thread so far.  EXTREMELY solid!

Based on the information you've provided and the amount of money you've decided to spend (based on the camera and lenses you've mentioned above) - I'd snag the 60D and 15-85.  Someone above said the image quality of the 15-85 isn't great.  That's COMPLETE rubbish.  The IQ for the 15-85 is absolutely FANTASTIC!

If you can manage it, I'd add the 55-250 - an EXCELLENT choice if you're not going to shoot long distance shots very often - I use mine about 3-5 times per year and that's it.  In fact, I just visited a zoo a few weeks ago with my 15-85 and only wished I had my 55-250 TWICE.  85mm is longer than you'd think!  If you're going to need a telephoto lens fairly often (sports or zoos every weekend or even once a month, etc.) then an "L" zoom (like the 70-300L or any of the 70-200L's for instance) will cost approximately 4-14x as much as the 55-250 but the IQ can't be beat.

For low light photos (and a price range of $120-460 each), I'd consider the 50mm 1.8 or 1.4 (depending on budget) and/or the 28mm 1.8 or 35mm 2.0.  Or, you could forgo the 50mm/28mm/35mm group and stick with the 15-85 zoom and add an external flash like the 430EXII ($280).  Using flash properly is an art in and of itself, IMO.

As for your concern over whether to buy EF lenses instead of EF-S lenses.  Personally, it's not an issue for me.  Here's how I see it.  The crop sensor market is FAR larger than the FF market.  Used equipment, especially higher quality equipment, doesn't depreciate much.  So, higher quality EF-S lenses will be easy to sell for many many years (ie, 17-55 and 15-85) and for very little loss.  Finally, the crop sensor affects the angle of view.  So, let's say you snag a 70-200mm L lens and LOVE that focal length/angle of view on your 60D.  When you put that same lens on a FF, the angle of view is going to be DRASTICALLY different.  On the 60D, the focal length equivalent will be 112-320 but on the FF it'll be 70-200.  There's a big difference between 70 & 110 and 200 & 320.  Essentially, if you want that same field of view that the 70-200 provided on your 60D, you'd need a 112-320 (if such a lens existed - the 70-300L would be the logical choice).  So, you're STILL going to need to sell your old equipment and buy something new.  Unless you have a TON of lenses and/or keep your crop body as a second camera.

And finally, as a hobbyist, there's probably very little chance that you'll upgrade to FF.  It's possible - just unlikely.

So, as others said.  Buy for today!  Don't even factor in the FF argument.

In terms of post-processing software.  Many will recommend Lightroom, Aperture, Photoshop Elements, and even various plug-ins.  Many people overlook the bundled software - Digital Photo Professional (aka: DPP).  DPP is VERY good.  It may not be equal to some of the other programs in it's overall power and ability, but given the fact that as of now, you have no idea what you're doing - it's already MUCH more than you're capable of utilizing.  It's very easy to use and it's very comprehensive.  And... it's VERY good (as I said before).  Some folks doling out recommendations will start processing in one program, move the same image to another and process it further, then move it to another program (or utilize plug-ins) to process further!!!  As someone who is out taking pictures of their family, trips, etc., I can assure you - that will NOT be your workflow.  You'll be a one-program-and-done kind of guy because by using DPP (for FREE) you'll already be 95% of where a $500 3-suite process would get you.  AND, you won't be trying to sell your images like they will.

As with bodies and lenses, only upgrade when you feel that your tools are limiting you.  I've been using DPP for 3 years now and I still don't see many opportunities for me to upgrade.

Above, someone mentioned the ability of one of the programs to correct distortion.  This would be someone who hasn't bothered to use DPP.  DPP KNOWS your camera and lenses (if you buy Canon lenses) and can correct lens aberrations (such as distortion and vignetting - it even does some noise reduction and chromatic aberration corrections too) for you with the click of a button.  It knows where the flaws in your Canon equipment is and how to correct it because CANON made it :)  I think WAAAAAY too many people foolishly overlook DPP to the detriment of their bank account.  They probably do this because DPP is the only manufacturer-provided post-processing software that's worth installing.  Nikon and Sony's software is garbage - so many assume Canon's is too.  It's not!  :)

Hope some of this helped!

briansquibb

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2012, 04:41:24 PM »
I would still go for the 24-105 over the 15-85 as:

- you have the wide covered
- the quality of the 24-105 is excellent
- the 24-105 is weatherproofed
- f/4 all the way through

Taken today with 24-105 on 7d




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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2012, 04:41:24 PM »

RC

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2012, 05:50:46 PM »
In terms of post-processing software.  Many will recommend Lightroom, Aperture, Photoshop Elements, and even various plug-ins.  Many people overlook the bundled software - Digital Photo Professional (aka: DPP).  DPP is VERY good....

Agree, DPP is very good software and the perfect software to start with IMO.  DPP is included with all Canon RAW capable cameras.  I use DPP along with LR.  You will determine in time if you need / want to add photo editing software.  When that time comes, download and test trial versions.

I would still go for the 24-105 over the 15-85 as:...

Certainly worth considering.   I very much like the 24-105 in conjunction with the 10-22.  You get true wide through moderate telephoto for crop cameras.  That might be the better route to take, only you will know.  Primarily for the need / want to have weather sealed lens, I sold my 15-85 and added the 16-35 and 24-105.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 09:09:35 AM by RC »

Northstar

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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2012, 06:19:15 PM »
Quote
A slow super zoom covers all focal lengths but doesn't give you much control over exposure or depth of field, and you also compromise in terms of image quality


"covers all focal lengths" is a very important and an underrated feature.  It's great for mom's / dad's that don't want to change lenses(or carry multiple) all the time on vacation, at outdoor soccer/baseball, parks.

Quote
Especially for low light shooting, fast glass is important (and makes much more difference than the body)

agree with you here....I would add to my recommendation, for ALL indoor shooting get a fast 50 1.8 prime(in addition to the 18-200)...or if you think you'll shoot a lot of indoor sports/plays etc - then get the 85 1.8.  For good quality indoor images you really need a fast prime....a must.  If you go with the 60d, then the $125 50 1.8 would be great.   Get the 85 1.8 if you know you'll be shooting indoor sports / plays..etc.

I standby the 18-200....for most outdoor shots with decent light, it will work very well. 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 07:32:52 PM by Northstar »
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Re: Suggestions on new Canon DSLR -- thinking 60D
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2012, 06:19:15 PM »