Canon EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II Speculation [CR1]

[neuroanatomist]

1DX only uses the two digi 5+ for speed the digic iv has nothing to do with the throughput it is only used to drive the fancy new metering chip and the color/face tracking mode assist for phase detected AF.

Hmmmm....then why is the Digic 4 chip in there at all?  Most likely, it's there because if the dual Digic 5+' had to handle the metering, the camera could not achieve 12/14 fps.  So it may have a lot to do with the throughput, albeit indirectly.

[babarasghar]

i reckon 70D will be a single processor APSC bad ass in 7D body
n 7D2 will be pitched against D600 of nikon ie full frame in a plasticy body ...
cause if canon is not prepairing grounds to compete D600 then things will be very very difficult for an apsc 7D2 ...

[Richard8971]

I would have to imagine that a 70D upgrade would follow the path of the 60D, otherwise a 7D replacement would have to place it "closer" (minus FF) to the 5D3, which wouldn't make much sence, unless it came with a higher MP sensor than 18. I only say that because of the fact that the 7D was placed too closely to the 50D in terms of "features", Canon had to "downgrade" the 60D to make the 7D seem more attractive for buyers and users. (Don't get me wrong, I like the 60D, it's a very good camera)

The 7D is one heck of a camera. It is loaded with features and is still "high-tech" even from today's standards. They would have to replace it with something that would make even the 5D3 stand up and take notice. I mean heck, they took the best of the 5D2 and the best of the 7D to make the 5D3!

18MP cannot be where Canon levels the playing field, even if it is an "upgraded" sensor. If the new 7D2 is 18MP, I cannot imagine too many features added that would justity upgrading my current 7D. (Even if it shoots 10 FPS, or more and dual digic 5) Now, IF the 7D2 came with a 24, 30, or higher MP sensor (ASP-H, or ASP-C) sensor and shot 8 or 10 FPS, then I might consider it. Or if it came with a FF sensor, but I wouldn't trade it for a "lesser" MP sensor (14, 16, or otherwise) for the current 7's speed. Now that being said, if the 7D2 was 16MP FF and shot 10 FPS, then I may look into it. Video is not something I care about (or use) so I don't worry about what features or not it has with video.

My opinions are based on a possible "entry" level of a cheaper FF camera (that is also rumored to be 18MP) from Canon. They need bodies to fill different price ranges and features. A return of the 70D to the status it had before (I.E. 40D, 50D...) would make the placement of any 7D upgrade a difficult one for Canon.

D

[floex712]

The specs for the 7D II seem plausible and more than likely what will come to fruition. An upgrade to the 7D would retain the Dual processers or it wouldn't be much of an upgrade. Although the 61 point AF system from the 5D III is likely, one can assume it may come down to a 41 point system as this would be top of the line APS-C body and not FF. However, if they implement the 61 point AF system from the 5D III, you'll hear NO complaints from me. 8fps is a lot so can't really speculate on that. Also, we will no doubt see an improvement on high ISO performance and overall IQ. A 3.2" screen size would be nice as well. I guess this is me making assumptions on what my wish-list is for the 7D II.  I can't really say I care for them to make the switch to SD card storage. Dual CF slots would be welcome and I wouldn't protest to 1 CF and 1 SD slot.

As far as the 70D, the biggest thing I would ask for is that it be returned to a Mag Alloy body.

[briansquibb]

I think the AF from the 1D4 would fit straight into the 7D2

[moreorless]

i reckon 70D will be a single processor APSC bad ass in 7D body
n 7D2 will be pitched against D600 of nikon ie full frame in a plasticy body ...
cause if canon is not prepairing grounds to compete D600 then things will be very very difficult for an apsc 7D2 ...

I'm not really seeing how those two cameras would be competing agenst each other, one sounds like its going to be offering high IQ in a more amature body while the other will be targeted more towards the pro market with advanatges in most other areas.

If the 7D mk2 really does look to target the 1D market for a high quality crop action camera I wonder whether Canon will back it up with future quality EF-s lenses? the crop is much more significant afterall and I'm guessing alot of users would like a 17-55 2.8 IS with professional build/sealing.

[Birdshooter]

Funny to see that there are a whole lot of users, wanting that the 7D will go full frame. I don't think that that is going to happen, because the target market for the 7D is not full frame.
It is THE wildlife body for prosumers and there are thousands of them out there.

These users want a body which is capable of shooting fast in low light conditions, and is using a crop factor. It needs to have spot on AF system. The 7D was a huge improvement over the 40D.

What is left to wish for and what would justify a upgrade?
- New 18MP sensor (is more than enough for wildlife, look at 1D)
- Better noise peformance in low light as well as low ISO
- Magaloy body, fully weathersealed
- Metering on AF point
- 8-10 fps
- no popup flash but build in radio controller

Why not FF?
- to get the same amount of detail after cropping the image, you would need a 46MP FF sensor. Because the target market is wildlife, you would still need to have 8 fps. At that MP level, the camera would be more expensive than the 1Dx.

7DII will be the top of the line APS-C

1Dx: Best of two worlds! (if you can buy this body, the lenses to go with it is no problem either!)
5DIII: Prosumer Full Frame (Portrait, Studio, Landscape)
7DII: Prosumer APS-C (Sports, Wildlife)

xxD series, for the amateurs, but I do see the option that a entry FF would fit in here (16 MP 2.5 fps)

xxxD series, entry level

xxxxD, toy series. Will remain, to make money, and is always a mix of old components of other series.

[dlleno]

The 7D is one heck of a camera. It is loaded with features and is still "high-tech" even from today's standards. They would have to replace it with something that would make even the 5D3 stand up and take notice. I mean heck, they took the best of the 5D2 and the best of the 7D to make the 5D3!

  much depends on the future of Canon's participation in the premier wildlife (crop) body space.  If they stay in it,  then 7D2 will have to make the 1D4 take notice, I would say. 

18MP cannot be where Canon levels the playing field, even if it is an "upgraded" sensor. If the new 7D2 is 18MP, I cannot imagine too many features added that would justity upgrading my current 7D. (Even if it shoots 10 FPS, or more and dual digic 5)  Now, IF the 7D2 came with a 24, 30, or higher MP sensor (ASP-H, or ASP-C) sensor and shot 8 or 10 FPS, then I might consider it. Or if it came with a FF sensor, but I wouldn't trade it for a "lesser" MP sensor (14, 16, or otherwise) for the current 7's speed.

But -- consider that Canon just announced a new18mp (FF) camera, with a new sensor along with a boat load of featuers beyond the 7D.  Moreover, today's 16MP 1D4 is still suprior to todays 7D in many respects

 
Now that being said, if the 7D2 was 16MP FF and shot 10 FPS, then I may look into it. Video is not something I care about (or use) so I don't worry about what features or not it has with video.

consider that you can purchase a 1D4 today, which exceeds these requirements.

My opinions are based on a possible "entry" level of a cheaper FF camera (that is also rumored to be 18MP) from Canon. They need bodies to fill different price ranges and features. A return of the 70D to the status it had before (I.E. 40D, 50D...) would make the placement of any 7D upgrade a difficult one for Canon.

Agreed that the 7D2 positioning will be interesting to watch, especially if 1.3x goes away.  I don't see xxD line filing the premiere wildlife crop-of-some-sort market ,but 7D2 could do that if the  timing with the 1D4 was carefully done.   The 1D4 is aging, but still spanks the 7D (except for price!), so the 7D2 intro would have to leap frog the 1D4 in my opinion (even if a breakthrough in price per performance).  Canon appears to be forcing the serious high-dollar wildlife guys into buying a lot of glass (move from crop to 1DX), so many would like to see 7D2 as the premiere crop  body wildlife body -- including the possibility of 1.3x. I'm in that camp too.

[ruuneos]

7D Owners!
 Are you going for upgrade?

I'm not going to upgrade my gear, next upgrade what I will do is going to FF.
Haven't seen any good rumors about 7D2 specs yet what makes me feel to upgrade, only things what I've put note is new 18mp sensor, 61pt AF and better noise performance. So probably not going to upgrade my gear just because of those.

[RLPhoto]

Now that I Think about the canon lineup, 1.3X could work like this

1DX- full frame

5DIII - full frame

7D2 - 1.3X w/10 fps

70D - 1.6X crop,

Rebel - 1.6X Crop

[neuroanatomist]

7D2 - 1.3X w/10 fps

They'll have to call it something different.  I doubt they'll convert the 7-series from APS-C and compatible with EF-S lenses to APS-H and incompatible with EF-S lenses - that would create a lot of confusion.

[dlleno]

Now that I Think about the canon lineup, 1.3X could work like this

1DX- full frame

5DIII - full frame

7D2 - 1.3X w/10 fps

70D - 1.6X crop,

Rebel - 1.6X Crop

Even with a 1.6,  7D2 could still be the premiere crop body with dual digic 5, and some derivative of the 5D3 AF system, and 10fps, mag body weather sealed, and differentiated from the xxD.   I like the 1.3x though that would be a nice surprise, and make the 7D2 a worthy successor to the 1D4, although it might not be called a 7D...

[dlleno]

If the 7D mk2 really does look to target the 1D market for a high quality crop action camera I wonder whether Canon will back it up with future quality EF-s lenses? the crop is much more significant afterall and I'm guessing alot of users would like a 17-55 2.8 IS with professional build/sealing.

true enough, but I'd suggest Canon's strategy is not there, it is to compel us to buy a FF body.  In this respect, the wildlife body is positioned as a 2nd (specialized) body where high quality wide angle lenses are not important.  and if they are, the serious guys will have a FF body anyway. 

I'm seeing a Canon revenue strategy to encourage more people to have two cameras and to invest in more "L" glass. 

[neuroanatomist]

Even with a 1.6,  7D2 could still be the premiere crop body with dual digic 5, and some derivative of the 5D3 AF system, and 10fps, mag body weather sealed, and differentiated from the xxD.   I like the 1.3x though that would be a nice surprise, and make the 7D2 a worthy successor to the 1D4, although it might not be called a 7D...

Personally, I'd like a 1DIV / 7D hybrid - build of the 1-series including integrated grip, APS-C sensor (hopefully with IQ improvements over the current 18 MP version), 12 fps, 1D X-like AF system, etc.

[moreorless]

What is left to wish for and what would justify a upgrade?
- New 18MP sensor (is more than enough for wildlife, look at 1D)
- Better noise peformance in low light as well as low ISO

To me it seems like the sensor needs of a 7D like this maybe starting to diverge from the rest of Canon's crop bodies.

The xxxD and xxD are I'd guess going to remain all rounders and many users would probabley be hoping for an increase in resolution from the previous generation. The 7D mk2 in these rumours seems like its moving away from being an all rounder with a slight bias to action into a more pure action body.

Could this be better suited by Canon dropping the 7D's MP count down to say 16 inline with the 1D4 and maxmising ISO/FPS performance while bumping the 70D and the 650D/700D up above 20 to compete with Nikon?

The would also provide more product seperation between the 7D and xxD lines aswell meaning the latter wouldnt need to be handicapped.