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Author Topic: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600  (Read 62892 times)

Astro

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2012, 07:05:04 AM »
If the rumored specs prove true and the D600 sells for $1,500, I will be very impressed. In the meantime, I'm holding out hope for a $1,500 Hasselblad ;D

well hassy reduced price last week.
a 8000$ drop (60MP H4D-60 ) are not that bad.

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2012, 07:05:04 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2012, 07:08:17 AM »
so im not very tempted to buy a 4 year old camera over the D600.

... unless you want it to run magic lantern with its killer features for video and very convenient addons for still shots. So getting an older body is not the worst decision in every case.

pdirestajr

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2012, 07:15:01 AM »
I have no problem with people moving to Nikon. However I do think that the constant putting down of Canon to justify moving to Nikon with so called 'facts' to justify their move is not appropriate on a Canon Rumours forum. I dont logon to this forum to join in with speculation/rumours about Nikon kit.

You dont hear me critisicing Canon, Nikon or any of the other manufacturers. I have a lot of old kit which one might say is ready for replacement (from a technology point of view).

I dont say that the 5DIII is overpriced - that is a purely subjective point of view.

I dont say that the D800 is a great camera and the 5DIII is rubbish because again that is a purely subjective point of view

I cannot even say that I will upgrade 'to get the best' because I am nowhere near achieving the potential from my existing kit (even though I could fancy the latest and greatist and upgrade)

Older technologies still deliver, and deliver cheaply. My 1Ds3 is now worth about the same as a new 5DII. I would consider the 1DS3 an upgrade from a 5DII -  for my photographic needs. In fact I did upgrade my 5DII to the 1DS3 when I heard the 5DIII specification - because it met my needs better. When making the decision it was made entirely on the basis of the offering from Canon. I am not angry or disappointed with Canon because the 5DIII did not meet my needs. If none of the offerings met my needs I would have had 3 options:

1. Not upgrading - the 5DII gave high IQ images, so from that point of view I didn't need to upgrade. I did loads of weddings and christenings with it without a problem

2. Wait to see if anything else was coming along - the existing kit still gave the same good IQ

3. See if any other manufacturers offerings met my needs. Unlike most, I have bought most of my kit used so I would not 'lose' a lot of money on the existing kit. Obviously moving manufacturer is a lot more than buying a new camera.

It would have been sad to move away from Canon because I have nearly 20 year experience with them - but to feel angy or disappointed with them - definitely not. And I wouldn't vent my anger against them on a Canon Forum either as they have given me a good ride for 20 years. Switching camps is one thing, abusing the other camp is another.

I have 3 cameras and a bunch of lens that are outdated but they are upto anything I would like to do.

I wonder whether sometimes people upgrade because they believe that it is the kit which is as fault rather than their ability. I bought the best kit I could afford and then started working on getting the best images and I know I haven't got there yet - I wish sometimes other people in my position would focus on improving their photographic skills rather than moan about their kit and say how the latest will improve their photos - when in fact after upgrading they just churn out the same old photos they did on their old kit - and then vent their anger at the manufacturers about the poor kit.

The 7D 'soft focus' issue was 90% user error IMHO. I have 'fixed' so many 7D's which were 'rubbish' - the 7D I have at the moment I got cheap because it 'had the problem'. It is a cracking little camera, spot on AF and decent IQ. Yet Canon got so much stick because of this. This is another case of mass hysteria - one or two people got a faulty AF unit - and vented their anger long and loud on the forums so that suddenly all the useless owners thought they had the same problem and they vented their anger on the forums until it sprialled nearly out of control. Shades of the 5DIII 'light leak' methinks.

Bottom line is:

If you dont like the offering dont buy it
If you dont like the offering it isn't the manufacturers fault
If enough people dont like the offerings then the manufacturers will offer something else or go bust

+100

I think a lot of the complainers are more into the toys, tech, comparing specs & reading charts. They need the higher ISO IQ and improved dynamic range to photograph the back of their lens cap and brick walls.

It's a shame how this forum has degraded so quickly, it used to be a place to share in a positive way.
7D | 5DII | EOS-3 | Nikon F3 | Mamiya 645 Pro-TL

Mike Miami

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2012, 07:18:54 AM »
Nikon and Canon both have different strategies for making money.

Nikons new strategy is  more bodies on the streets of the world = more $$ through lens and accessories sales
Canons new strategy is to increase prices with minimal R/D = more $$

I like Nikons way of thinking!!!

pdirestajr

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2012, 09:53:41 AM »
I still see a 10-1 difference in Canon to Nikon with people carrying DSLRs around NYC.

Nikon is being aggressive because they NEED to win back some of the market Canon dominates.

Canon is continuing to evolve their brand as the world evolves to a more multi-media driven place. The EOS brand now includes cinema cameras. I think it's fair to say, Canon & Nikon are evolving in different ways. Neither is right or wrong.

Choose to tools that best suits your needs. It's doesn't have to always be a fanboy battle.
7D | 5DII | EOS-3 | Nikon F3 | Mamiya 645 Pro-TL

briansquibb

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2012, 09:56:55 AM »
Choose to tools that best suits your needs. It's doesn't have to always be a fanboy battle.

+10

awinphoto

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2012, 10:00:19 AM »
I have no problem with people moving to Nikon. However I do think that the constant putting down of Canon to justify moving to Nikon with so called 'facts' to justify their move is not appropriate on a Canon Rumours forum. I dont logon to this forum to join in with speculation/rumours about Nikon kit.

You dont hear me critisicing Canon, Nikon or any of the other manufacturers. I have a lot of old kit which one might say is ready for replacement (from a technology point of view).

I dont say that the 5DIII is overpriced - that is a purely subjective point of view.

I dont say that the D800 is a great camera and the 5DIII is rubbish because again that is a purely subjective point of view

I cannot even say that I will upgrade 'to get the best' because I am nowhere near achieving the potential from my existing kit (even though I could fancy the latest and greatist and upgrade)

Older technologies still deliver, and deliver cheaply. My 1Ds3 is now worth about the same as a new 5DII. I would consider the 1DS3 an upgrade from a 5DII -  for my photographic needs. In fact I did upgrade my 5DII to the 1DS3 when I heard the 5DIII specification - because it met my needs better. When making the decision it was made entirely on the basis of the offering from Canon. I am not angry or disappointed with Canon because the 5DIII did not meet my needs. If none of the offerings met my needs I would have had 3 options:

1. Not upgrading - the 5DII gave high IQ images, so from that point of view I didn't need to upgrade. I did loads of weddings and christenings with it without a problem

2. Wait to see if anything else was coming along - the existing kit still gave the same good IQ

3. See if any other manufacturers offerings met my needs. Unlike most, I have bought most of my kit used so I would not 'lose' a lot of money on the existing kit. Obviously moving manufacturer is a lot more than buying a new camera.

It would have been sad to move away from Canon because I have nearly 20 year experience with them - but to feel angy or disappointed with them - definitely not. And I wouldn't vent my anger against them on a Canon Forum either as they have given me a good ride for 20 years. Switching camps is one thing, abusing the other camp is another.

I have 3 cameras and a bunch of lens that are outdated but they are upto anything I would like to do.

I wonder whether sometimes people upgrade because they believe that it is the kit which is as fault rather than their ability. I bought the best kit I could afford and then started working on getting the best images and I know I haven't got there yet - I wish sometimes other people in my position would focus on improving their photographic skills rather than moan about their kit and say how the latest will improve their photos - when in fact after upgrading they just churn out the same old photos they did on their old kit - and then vent their anger at the manufacturers about the poor kit.

The 7D 'soft focus' issue was 90% user error IMHO. I have 'fixed' so many 7D's which were 'rubbish' - the 7D I have at the moment I got cheap because it 'had the problem'. It is a cracking little camera, spot on AF and decent IQ. Yet Canon got so much stick because of this. This is another case of mass hysteria - one or two people got a faulty AF unit - and vented their anger long and loud on the forums so that suddenly all the useless owners thought they had the same problem and they vented their anger on the forums until it sprialled nearly out of control. Shades of the 5DIII 'light leak' methinks.

Bottom line is:

If you dont like the offering dont buy it
If you dont like the offering it isn't the manufacturers fault
If enough people dont like the offerings then the manufacturers will offer something else or go bust

+100

I think a lot of the complainers are more into the toys, tech, comparing specs & reading charts. They need the higher ISO IQ and improved dynamic range to photograph the back of their lens cap and brick walls.

It's a shame how this forum has degraded so quickly, it used to be a place to share in a positive way.

Couldn't agree more
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2012, 10:00:19 AM »

awinphoto

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2012, 10:14:06 AM »
Go for it... no ones holding you back

Of course this is the message of the day in a Canon enthusiast forum, if people aren't prepared to pay $3500 for an up-to date camera body, it's their own fault. But seriously, if there aren't any hidden drawbacks and the price would be indeed around $1500, Canon is toast in the mid-range segment, and rightly so.

The 5d2 with its af isn't comparable, though it runs magic lantern which is the reason I got a Canon dslr in the first place. I'm holding back any further Canon purchases until the very moment I really need them to see what Canon does next.
I used to be a big fan of Canon camera.  Recently I actually have stopped my Canon upgrade after I see 3.5K 5D3 and 2.3K 24-70mm MK2.  I might really switch to Nikon if Canon still tries to make more money from its royal customer.
To awinphoto:
We all want both Canon and Nikon make better and cheaper cameras for us.  Don't be so childish.

I am OK with a 3.5K 5D3. It's absolutely amazing. A 2.3K 24-70 is a little too much. Actually it does not appear that you have invested a lot on Canon's glass. Those amazing lenses have very good resale values. Maybe it's time to switch to D800. Or you can give the 5d3 a try first. It's amazing.

spoken like a true fanboy!

so, you are saying the D600 with those specs at under $1500 is NOT worth, but the Canon 5D MKIII at more than double the price, $3500 is worth it?

spoken like a true fanboy!

Marsu, you're missing the point.  It's not that i'm being a canon enthusiast or fanboy or any other name you wish to bestow on me.  I'm also not saying its anyones fault for not being able to afford the camera.  Heck, at the initial release, I didn't have the extra grand needed to make the purchase, but I worked hard, shot a few more big jobs, got the money and now it's mine.  Is the 5d3 overpriced?  I suppose you could say that.  Is the 1dx overpriced?  Hell yeah.  Is the 1dx and 5d3 worth every penny?  If you do this for a living, yes, if not, then only you can answer.  I dont begrudge anyone who wants to buy a 1d series, a 5d series, or heck, anyone to move over to nikon and visa versa.  it is what it is.  But to post crying like a crybaby "whaaaa the camera of my dreams is out of my price range and budget and i'm so disappointed that i may jump to nikon"...  who cares?  Frankly after reading this forum for the last few months I'm sickened by some of the gripes...  The LCD light leak.. the 5d2 had it, 40D had it, and yet NO ONE GRIPED until this camera... Now people are griping about the black AF points in the VF... it was in the 7d and granted the 19 AF were slightly bigger and spread out compared to the clustered 61 points, but I cant recall a time where I ever lost a shot because I couldn't tell or know where the AF points were... Heck, even the user manual says, depending on the mode and case scenario you have it set at,  the camera will track your subject outside of the AF points should it move outside...  All this whining and griping about old old issues that never seemed to affect people with older cameras just seems ridiculous to me.  To gripe about the camera being more money than nikons is as ridiculous as well.  It's like a guy wanting to buy a new ford f250 griping that the Dodge ram is a few thousand cheaper...  Buy it, dont buy it, switch, or wait for rebates and save up in the interim.  Those are your 4 options.  I'm not trying to sound elitist, or a jerk, but seriously griping just for the sake of griping...  makes me think we as photographers have gotten spoiled or feel entitled somehow or there's a like of nikon fanboys in canon's clothing here.  Of course I'd love the 1dx at a $3000 price point but it's not going to happen. 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 11:04:08 AM by awinphoto »
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Marsu42

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2012, 10:31:57 AM »
Marsu, you're missing the point. 

First off, I'd never call anybody an anything-fanboy because it doesn't help. In extreme cases, I'd point out that one's heavy investment in equipment might produce a somewhat biased point of view, but I didn't do this in this case.

But to post crying like a crybaby "whaaaa the camera of my dreams is out of my price range and budget and i'm so disappointed that i may jump to nikon"...  who cares?

For the same reason stated above, I hardly think calling me a "crybaby" is appropriate. I perfectly understand the "tool" point of view of pro photogs, and I'm trying to get some money out of this sooner or later, to. Me pointing out that I'm not sure in which system to invest in seems like a perfectly valid topic for a photography forum, and you as a "pro" should understand this very well. And I'm happy to hear different helpful opinions on why Canon is a sound system to get - sadly, yours last statement doesn't qualify.

Generally, there are enough people who like to reason about Canon's upcoming stuff, competition and strategy - this is Canon *rumors*, you know? But please feel free to not care. In this case, there is always the option to just ignore threads like "Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600".

briansquibb

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2012, 10:44:04 AM »
In this case, there is always the option to just ignore threads like "Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600".

I think in this case the best option would have been to post this thread on a more general photographic forum.

AnselA

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2012, 10:44:44 AM »
The cameras/lenses and software now available are, in many cases, way beyond the capabilities, training and talent of most photographers purchasing them. I say this as someone that can be included in that group and that was weened on 120mm and 35mm film with a variety of cameras (Kodak, Rollei, Minolta, Olympus, Nikon, Canon and now both Nikon and Canon DSLRs). The capabilities of digital are outstanding and I can say I have improved the most since I bought my first Nikon digital and moved through to where I am today. The greatest opportunities today lie in being able to experiment at little or no additional cost and to easily do "darkroom" work that would have required tens of years of experience and an incredible time commitment in the past. With the proper feedback and some dedication you can produce work that was only possible to professionals. That said, much of what is shared here as information, facts or analysis is really just polished forms of emotions run wild or fears writ large. Even if you have an investment in a lot of equipment nothing Canon has done recently will ruin you or humiliate you personally or professionally. Only the most anal among will be forced to change to Nikon because Canon was just inadequate. They may choose for some feature(s) that they want but rarely is it because they just can't do their work.

This constant attacking of Canon is somewhat sad and I agree heartily with briansquibb. The Canon product line reflects where they want to develop the business of still and video photography. The cameras/lenses we have to choose from are outstanding and although not the very best in every dimension, measurement or price they are quite competitive and produce great results. We are not made to buy or be loyal but can choose to do so if the value proposition is right. We can choose otherwise without attacking the firm, their integrity or intelligence. They are very successful by any means (just look at the sidelines at any pro sporting event or just walk the streets of any world city to see). From point and shoots of every shape and color to the forthcoming Canon EOS-1D X it is an amazing series of products for every skill set.

I owned a Nikon DSLR kit and now I shoot with Canon. I was happy then and I am happy now. I spend my energy learning away to get better every time I go out and, hopefully, to do the equipment I own justice.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 01:10:44 PM by AnselA »

awinphoto

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2012, 11:00:14 AM »
Marsu, you're missing the point. 

First off, I'd never call anybody an anything-fanboy because it doesn't help. In extreme cases, I'd point out that one's heavy investment in equipment might produce a somewhat biased point of view, but I didn't do this in this case.

But to post crying like a crybaby "whaaaa the camera of my dreams is out of my price range and budget and i'm so disappointed that i may jump to nikon"...  who cares?

For the same reason stated above, I hardly think calling me a "crybaby" is appropriate. I perfectly understand the "tool" point of view of pro photogs, and I'm trying to get some money out of this sooner or later, to. Me pointing out that I'm not sure in which system to invest in seems like a perfectly valid topic for a photography forum, and you as a "pro" should understand this very well. And I'm happy to hear different helpful opinions on why Canon is a sound system to get - sadly, yours last statement doesn't qualify.

Generally, there are enough people who like to reason about Canon's upcoming stuff, competition and strategy - this is Canon *rumors*, you know? But please feel free to not care. In this case, there is always the option to just ignore threads like "Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600".

I wasn't referring to you as a crybaby, but more to the person i was originally referring to in the very beginning, cliffwang who threw out there that he wishes to switch to nikon, but probably cant and how disappointed he was in canon (for not providing a camera he could afford/aspire for).  I was not referring to you in particular but more of a blanket statement to all those who do nothing but throw out idle threats "i'm switching to nikon because i'm throwing a hissy fit because I cant afford x camera and I dont like where canon is going........."  Each statement in itself is valid and every photographer, pro or not, has to justify purchases, whether its to shareholders, to a spouse, to a bank, or even to themselves.  It's been 2 full months since the 5d3 has been for sale, more than that since it was announced...  We've heard every excuse, valid or not, on why someone would, why someone wouldn't, and why they couldn't buy this camera.  Buy it, dont buy it, save up and or wait for rebates, or find another camera/brand/whatever to suit your needs...  But to still be on here over 2 months later humming and hawing over the same thing we were 2 months ago... It just feels like the saying, crap or get off the pot.  I get the feeling that people posting forum threads like these are simply phishing for reaction with no real point or purpose sitting back laughing their butts off on the chaos that is to follow.  Its getting old. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

ScottyP

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2012, 11:52:31 AM »
Instead of getting pissed off when we see a new Nikon that is better and/or cheaper than comparable Canon gear, we should be happy.  It means that Canon will have to respond (albeit not as instantaneously as you might wish) by lowering prices or improving cameras or both. 

Without Nikon around, Canon would not be as good as it is now, and vice-versa.  I also hope Sony cameras continue to improve and threaten/challenge Canon.  Also Panasonic and all the other "also-rans".  Competition gives better products at lower prices.  The worst thing in the world, frankly, would be to see Nikon or Sony crater and bow out of the DSLR market.  A monopoly Canon would be a very bad thing for quality and value and inovation.
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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2012, 11:52:31 AM »

cliffwang

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2012, 12:15:55 PM »
Bottom line is:

If you dont like the offering dont buy it
If you dont like the offering it isn't the manufacturers fault
If enough people dont like the offerings then the manufacturers will offer something else or go bust

+100

I think a lot of the complainers are more into the toys, tech, comparing specs & reading charts. They need the higher ISO IQ and improved dynamic range to photograph the back of their lens cap and brick walls.

It's a shame how this forum has degraded so quickly, it used to be a place to share in a positive way.
The big problem here is too many Canon fans or employees trying to tell Canon is always right.

1. People have to have good skills to use cameras.
2. People cannot complain the product you would like buy because that's against your choice.
3. The lack of features are no problem because that's the company I like.
4. Too many lenses to switch to another company.  Here we are talking about CAMERAS, not lenses.
5. Many resources from other websites are wrong because they don't know Canon.
6. Anything against Canon is wrong.

A very interesting forum.
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AndysRollei

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2012, 12:23:16 PM »
Quote
The big problem here is too many Canon fans or employees trying to tell Canon is always right.

1. People have to have good skills to use cameras.
2. People cannot complain the product you would like buy because that's against your choice.
3. The lack of features are no problem because that's the company I like.
4. Too many lenses to switch to another company.  Here we are talking about CAMERAS, not lenses.
5. Many resources from other websites are wrong because they don't know Canon.
6. Anything against Canon is wrong.

A very interesting forum.

Kinda like

1. The Captain is always right.
2. If the Captain is wrong, refer to rule number 1.

Andy
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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2012, 12:23:16 PM »