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Author Topic: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600  (Read 137758 times)

Kernuak

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #195 on: May 30, 2012, 05:28:19 PM »
A work colleague has the D800. Aside from his amusement about the US apparently grabbing the European share of the early batches, leading to the US market haveing the worst of the teething problems (such as major lockups), he couldn't understand some of the gripes that are being aired on these forums. I asked him if he is able to pull 4 stops of shadow detail. His response was "why would I want to?". I think that says it all about the importance of the reported 14 stops of DR. If and when I get the 5D MkIII, then we could do some comparisons, but by that time, I expect (hope) there would be some comparisons to settle it once and for all, rather than listening to hearsay and lab tests.
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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #195 on: May 30, 2012, 05:28:19 PM »

jaduffy007

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #196 on: May 30, 2012, 07:19:07 PM »
Funny, all these years, I thought that photography was all about good light and composition, but apparently I was wrong, it's all in the dynamic range a camera is able to produce. At least now, I know that I just need to buy a D800 to make lots of money. I no longer need to pick my moment or maximise my chances with a higher frame rate, because the D800 will do it all for me.

Ignoring your sarcasm....
I don't understand why you don't see the value in greater DR.  Why wouldn't you want images that get far closer to the DR your eyes can perceive, resulting in more life-like, powerful images?  DR is a big deal. 

jaduffy007

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #197 on: May 30, 2012, 07:22:48 PM »
'Better' is a subjective word that implies personal taste/requirements w.h.y.

If fps is a requirement for a person then if camera delivers the required fps then it is clearly better for that person than one that doesn't

In my case and Keith's clearly we feel the need for fps. Therefore the D800 fails at that point.

5D3 measuring up to your needs doesn't change the fact that it's an overpriced camera that disappointed many people.

You haven't worked this out yet. I dont have a 5DIII nor am I buying one

The value of an item is subjective so to tell us that it is overpriced is meaningless as it only tells us your opinion


Can you please share your measuring stick that is free from subjectivity and opinion?

D_Rochat

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #198 on: May 30, 2012, 09:50:48 PM »
Why won't this thread just die already!?!

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #199 on: May 30, 2012, 11:25:50 PM »
Why won't this thread just die already!?!
because it got bitten by the DR zombie i think you need to shoot it in the head...
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cliffwang

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #200 on: May 31, 2012, 12:09:05 AM »
Why won't this thread just die already!?!

I think you just made this thread went to the front page...lol
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briansquibb

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #201 on: May 31, 2012, 12:53:52 AM »
You haven't worked this out yet. I dont have a 5DIII nor am I buying one

The value of an item is subjective so to tell us that it is overpriced is meaningless as it only tells us your opinion


Can you please share your measuring stick that is free from subjectivity and opinion?

The point that fanboys miss is that every person has their own measuring stick and that is different from everyone elses.

The only absolutes are in the specs - like mps, fps etc.

Some people might think the best camera is based on value for money - that might be a used 500D with a 55-250 lens - but others will think that is awful and insist on a MF for max IQ. Both are valid using their own measuring stick.

The one thing that irritates the hell out of me is presenting opinion as facts or manipulating/changing facts to suit their opinion.


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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #201 on: May 31, 2012, 12:53:52 AM »

aznable

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #202 on: May 31, 2012, 02:38:35 AM »

That's what I thought.  Nikon is trying to get more market share with lower profit.  And Canon is trying to maximum its profit with it market share power.  That's how to run a business.  Just too many people cannot see the points.  Canon and Nikon are big companies and have many investors.  Their decision makers need to make right decisions for their investors, not their users.

no...Canon is a big company. 4 times bigger than nikon for market cap/revenues and profits.

and no...from the balance sheet of the last financial year nikon increased the revenues lowering cost of manufactoring, so it's doing the opposite you are telling us.. no-one is on the market for charity
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Marsu42

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #203 on: May 31, 2012, 03:46:11 AM »
and no...from the balance sheet of the last financial year nikon increased the revenues lowering cost of manufactoring, so it's doing the opposite you are telling us.. no-one is on the market for charity

The point is: No one thinks Nikon is out to make less profit, but they may very well risk more internal cannibalization like Canon to gain market share and sell lenses, so they might be inclined to cut less features from a d800->d600 than Canon would do with the 5d3->5d2 successor.

With the Sony sensors and the d800 release price, it seems Nikon wants to attack Canon and not just go along with them, and a budget ff body might be the way to throw down the gauntlet.

x-vision

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #204 on: May 31, 2012, 04:01:50 AM »
This is why the D800 is such a game-changer. It establishes a totally new price-structure for higher-end DSLRs. 

+1000

Quote
New structure:
* Nikon D4/Canon 1D X - flagship specialist journalism/sports camera, max speed, limited resolution - USD/€ 6,000
* Nikon D800 - max. resolution, fully featured, except speed: USD/€ 2,900
* Nikon D600 - second-tier FF-model, less resolutuon, features scaled back: USD/€ 1,500-1,700  2,000

Canon has failed to adequately repond to this and will undoubtedly pay the price in market share.

My thoughts exactly - except that the D600 will be USD/€ 2,000.

I also think that Canon is failing to respond adequately to the current market trends .. for now.
They will have to, though.

Canon won't get much help from the film/video crowd this time around.
So, they will have no option but to drop the 5DIII price in order to make it attractive to photo-enthusiasts.

Patience, padawan, patience  8).

x-vision

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #205 on: May 31, 2012, 04:09:42 AM »

With the Sony sensors and the d800 release price, it seems Nikon wants to attack Canon and not just go along with them, and a budget ff body might be the way to throw down the gauntlet.

I think that Nikon and Canon are just targeting different crowds with their new offerings.

Canon seems to be targeting pros and the video/film crowd with the 5DIII. Hence the high price:
Pros will pay anyway and the video/film crowd supposedly has deep pockets. 

Nikon, on the other hand, has pros and photo-enthusiasts in mind with the D800.
And the rumored D600 will obviously be targeted squarely at enthusiasts.
Thus, the lower prices - especially for the rumored D600.

The question is, what happens if the video/film crowd doesn't line up to buy the 5DIII as they did for the 5DII?

Jason Beiko

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #206 on: May 31, 2012, 06:28:08 AM »
I'm not sure why people think it is important that the rumoured D600 will canabalize sales of the D800?  This only matter if the profit margin on the D800 is more than the D600?  Just because the D800 costs more does not mean that it has a higher profit margin!

Market share is very important because it lends consumers to purchase company specific equipment.   Think PS3 versus XBOX 360 versus the Wii.  Quite a bit of the profit in these platform is generated by platform specific software.  In fact when the PS3 was released it was rumoured to be priced below cost.

It seems to me that market share is very important and the newly released Nikon's might have a significant role in boosting their profile.

Astro

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #207 on: May 31, 2012, 07:07:08 AM »
a scaled down FF camera already exists...it's from canon, has 21mpix sensor and it's called 5D mkII; selling for 1600€ here in italy



oh you are a canon marketing genius.  ::)

i think we are all more then happy to pay for 4 year old technology while nikon users will have a better FF camera with the D600 (and yes i think there is no doubt it will be better).
 
tell it canon.. i think they will be more then happy to stop spending money on R&D.. we just buy their old technology.

that makes so much sense!!!    ???

Quote
i cannot see crowds of amateur switching from their aps-c camera maybe because they dont care about FF

now let´s ask... what do you know?
honest... how can you tell such BS when in every photography forum people scream for a "cheap FF" camera.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 07:09:52 AM by Astro »

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #207 on: May 31, 2012, 07:07:08 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #208 on: May 31, 2012, 07:28:20 AM »
now let´s ask... what do you know?

The question wasn't meant for me, but I have to say nobody can know either way because there is no budget ff option yet.

Maybe many people will jump from aps-c because they've heard that with ff, you get instant great pictures, but maybe many won't because they'll realize that they hardly max out their current sensor & cheaper ef lenses are worse on ff. And because lenses they use either won't work at all (ef-s ultrawides) or don't have the reach they want, while carrying around a 70-200/2.8 as a walkaround is not for everyone.

aznable

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #209 on: May 31, 2012, 11:28:05 AM »
a scaled down FF camera already exists...it's from canon, has 21mpix sensor and it's called 5D mkII; selling for 1600€ here in italy

oh you are a canon marketing genius.  ::)

i think we are all more then happy to pay for 4 year old technology while nikon users will have a better FF camera with the D600 (and yes i think there is no doubt it will be better).
 
tell it canon.. i think they will be more then happy to stop spending money on R&D.. we just buy their old technology.

that makes so much sense!!!    ???

Quote
i cannot see crowds of amateur switching from their aps-c camera maybe because they dont care about FF

now let´s ask... what do you know?
honest... how can you tell such BS when in every photography forum people scream for a "cheap FF" camera.

there is a diffence between d600 and 5dmkii....that d600 doesnt exists, it's not annouced yet and we dont know how the camera will be (if...it will be)

it tell such bullshit because i cant see a lot of people switching to FF, neither Forum peoples that represent 1/100000 of people that buy a dslr…maybe thay are waiting for a FF in 500€/$ range...lol
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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #209 on: May 31, 2012, 11:28:05 AM »