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Author Topic: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600  (Read 95108 times)

briansquibb

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #210 on: May 31, 2012, 12:00:36 PM »
Who cares how old the technology is - the only important issue is whether is produces the high IQ

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #210 on: May 31, 2012, 12:00:36 PM »

AvTvM

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #211 on: May 31, 2012, 12:26:33 PM »
Who cares how old the technology is - the only important issue is whether is produces the high IQ

as you may know, in digital cameras these two characteristics are inversely proportional. :-)

5D II IQ is outclassed  by the newer D800
7D IQ does not match the newer D7000 

Both cameras are still capable IQ-wise, but the 5D 2 is seriously let down by a sorry old AF system, which was already significantly below the previous competitor's model specs (D700 - which in turn was hampered from the sub-par resolution of its sensor ... Nikon makes mistakes too!).

Current 5D 2 owners certainly don't have to rush for an upgrade, unless the extra resolution and DR of the D800 are needed or if they don't mind to pay more for the 5D 3's improved AF and speed than for a D800.

But for people about to get their first FF DSLR, the dated 5D 2 is certainly not first choice. And it will become even more unattractive, if/when Nikon brings out an "enthusiast IQ and features" D600 at an "FF entry level price".  Not all APS-C users want to switch to FF, but there is a huge number of people who want to "upgrade" to a decently priced "FF" camera. :-)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 01:05:22 PM by AvTvM »

cliffwang

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #212 on: May 31, 2012, 12:43:21 PM »

That's what I thought.  Nikon is trying to get more market share with lower profit.  And Canon is trying to maximum its profit with it market share power.  That's how to run a business.  Just too many people cannot see the points.  Canon and Nikon are big companies and have many investors.  Their decision makers need to make right decisions for their investors, not their users.

no...Canon is a big company. 4 times bigger than nikon for market cap/revenues and profits.

and no...from the balance sheet of the last financial year nikon increased the revenues lowering cost of manufactoring, so it's doing the opposite you are telling us.. no-one is on the market for charity

1. I have mentioned Canon is bigger than Nikon.
2. I have mentioned businesses need to make decision for their investors, not users.
3. There is no conflict between "lower profit and making more profit than before"  If a company can make 500M last year and it could make 750M this year, the CEO said let's make only 650M and get more market share.  Any conflict here?

I really don't get why you quote my post and replied with something not related.
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briansquibb

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #213 on: May 31, 2012, 01:29:20 PM »
@Cliff - your answer didn't suit their point of view so it was ignored

I seems to me that there are several anti Canon/pro Nikon threads - and it is always the same group of suspects whinging and whining

hyles

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #214 on: May 31, 2012, 01:57:54 PM »
I think that DR  of 5D is quite enough for most people/situation. Having more DR may be sometime usefull, but i would never buy a d800 with its huge 36mp/50mb files.
If i had to chose between 5DIII and d800 i would go for the canon.
I am not going to to buy the 5DIII, it is very expansive. I think it may be worth its price, but i do not want to spend so mutch for a camera. Even if i have been tempted.
I think that d800 is very expensive as well. 2800 $ it is not cheap. If I was to spend so mutch money, i would not care spending 500 $ more for the canon.
I don't want to spend so much, but i could spend 1600 euro for 5DII. I would not mind any cheap nikon FF camera, since i have a lot of canon glasses and DR and AF of 5DII suites my needs. And IQ of the camera is very high. Even if it is 4 years old, everybody it is here to say that 5DIII has not improoved IQ over the older model so it must be a High quality 4 years old tecnology.
But if I needed it right now i could go to a shop and buy one.
And I am quite sure that canon will have  FF entry level camera after the 5DII. So i am waiting to see what will happen, even if it will be next year, I am not in hurry.
Diego

Kernuak

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #215 on: May 31, 2012, 02:02:44 PM »
Funny, all these years, I thought that photography was all about good light and composition, but apparently I was wrong, it's all in the dynamic range a camera is able to produce. At least now, I know that I just need to buy a D800 to make lots of money. I no longer need to pick my moment or maximise my chances with a higher frame rate, because the D800 will do it all for me.

Ignoring your sarcasm....
I don't understand why you don't see the value in greater DR.  Why wouldn't you want images that get far closer to the DR your eyes can perceive, resulting in more life-like, powerful images?  DR is a big deal.
The simple answer is, that there are other criteria which are more important to me than DR (such as low light performance, where DR is low anyway). If it's there I'll take it, but not at the expense of something that I consider important. Personally, I think the significance of DR has been overestimated. Photography isn't meant to be easy, otherwise everyone would be doing it and there would be no need for professinoal photographers, hence my sarcasm (well that and the fact that we've been over the same ground countless times in the past month or so). Also, why worry about more DR if it is of no benefit in print? I sell small volumes of prints and stock (which also is generally print based, although occasionally web based) and DR is then limited by more than what any current Canon camera can produce. Also, I have had very few problems with DR, if the DR is more than what the camera can capture, then most of the time, I can simply use a grad filter, otherwise, for what I photograph, then I'm better off waiting for better lighting or I compromise in certain areas. My style tends to make use of strong shadows, so I have no need to extract intimate detail, I just want the suggestion of detail. Just like in attraction, often a suggestion is stronger than having something "in your face". If I need to extract 4 stops of shadow detail, then I've failed, the shot gets binned and I reshoot with the correct exposure, adding a grad filter if necessary.
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x-vision

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #216 on: May 31, 2012, 03:11:49 PM »
I seems to me that there are several anti Canon/pro Nikon threads - and it is always the same group of suspects whinging and whining

And of course there are always the Canon apologists.
No matter what Canon does (and how overpriced it is), it's always good.

I never understood the mentality of an apologist, btw.
What is it that drives an individual to defend the profit-driven decisions/actions of a profit-driven corporation ??? ?

Me? I just hate overpaying and like to get good deals when paying with my money.
No brand loyalty from me if I feel that a corporation is trying to milk me.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 05:26:11 PM by x-vision »

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #216 on: May 31, 2012, 03:11:49 PM »

aznable

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #217 on: May 31, 2012, 03:38:19 PM »
That's what I thought.  Nikon is trying to get more market share with lower profit.  And Canon is trying to maximum its profit with it market share power.  That's how to run a business.  Just too many people cannot see the points.  Canon and Nikon are big companies and have many investors.  Their decision makers need to make right decisions for their investors, not their users.

no...Canon is a big company. 4 times bigger than nikon for market cap/revenues and profits.

and no...from the balance sheet of the last financial year nikon increased the revenues lowering cost of manufactoring, so it's doing the opposite you are telling us.. no-one is on the market for charity
[/quote]

1. I have mentioned Canon is bigger than Nikon.
2. I have mentioned businesses need to make decision for their investors, not users.
3. There is no conflict between "lower profit and making more profit than before"  If a company can make 500M last year and it could make 750M this year, the CEO said let's make only 650M and get more market share.  Any conflict here?

I really don't get why you quote my post and replied with something not related.
[/quote]

1. you said both are big companies...i dont think nikon is big; nikon is active in too few business segments
2. i said just what you said, so dont be angry. btw they are "listening" what people will buy....that's called marketing, but for the  higher segment they listen also to "users" (i guess you refer to pro and forum's people), infact they have improved the 5d in the way the "users" asked (no more megapixels,better autofocus, faster framerate)
3. you said that nikon was expanding the marketshare lowering the margin, but from financials they are doing the exact opposite...at least from their last FY

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Tayvin

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #218 on: May 31, 2012, 03:50:54 PM »
To answer your question - Canon was listening when they built the 5D mark iii.  The majority of bloggers were saying they wanted a better AF system, faster fps, same amount of megapixels, and superb low-light ISO.  I think most of you got what you asked for.  Now the real question is would the $3500 price tag be acceptable if the D800/D800e never existed?  I think it would have.

And even a brand fanboy has to admit that that D800e is pretty amazing - if you can get one ;)

Aglet

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #219 on: May 31, 2012, 03:58:29 PM »
Well, some kinda of luck smiled in my direction then put a huge dent in my credit card and now I've added a D800 to my pile of Canon gear. A pre-order I'd placed WAY back actually came in so I'm stoked that I'll get to play with it this summer as the D800e I'm likely to be waiting for until September with how backlogged my supplier is with orders for it.

I've only put about 100 shots on it but I can already tell this is going to be my landscape camera of choice.  Now we really need a better 24mm tilt-shift for Nikon! The DR is amazing with clean shadows I can bring up if I want to without the signature ruddiness of a Canon image.
The detail level from all those extra pixels is noticeable and will make for big sweet prints with impressive detail.

It may also be my close-up work camera of choice in some situations too after seeing the output from using a decades-old manual Nikkor macro lens on it.  Used it in low natural outdoor lighting at ISO 3200 to nab a shot that had amazing detail with very little noise-reduction required and that was only to smooth the OOF transition areas.

So I've already identified shooting situations where this superior sensor will make at least ME happier with the results and this is all while using cheap old manual lenses from 2nd hand sources.

That said, I still wish its user interface was as simple and intuitive to use as Canon's but it's worth the effort to learn the new equipment's quirks.  I'll also still be using my 5D2 next weekend to shoot some group portraits, mostly because that's what my lighting matches up with right now.

So in summary;

I really wish CANON had made this camera.
But they didn't.

I really hope Canon can make a similarly improved IQ camera in the very near future.
But I'm not waiting for them to do so.

And while I'm now enjoying the best of these 2 worlds, I'm still looking forward, just as eagerly, to the next hi-IQ, FF body, from either camp. 
Meanwhile, I feel the need to add a bit more inventory to the Nik side of the sheet to broaden what I can use it for.
Canon's failure to release a seriously improved body didn't just lose a sale of a body, a pile of my loot is now going elsewhere on accessories since there's no need to upgrade my Canon stuff beyond what I've got.

cliffwang

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #220 on: May 31, 2012, 04:12:33 PM »
1. you said both are big companies...i dont think nikon is big; nikon is active in too few business segments
2. i said just what you said, so dont be angry. btw they are "listening" what people will buy....that's called marketing, but for the  higher segment they listen also to "users" (i guess you refer to pro and forum's people), infact they have improved the 5d in the way the "users" asked (no more megapixels,better autofocus, faster framerate)
3. you said that nikon was expanding the marketshare lowering the margin, but from financials they are doing the exact opposite...at least from their last FY

That's very interesting answers.  Can you just ask people around you if Nikon is a big company?  I would like to see if you will change you mind after you do that.  Based on the last year information cannot explain Nikon's marketing strategies.  It's not difficult to guess what Nikon is trying to do from its recent products and pricing.  Of cause you can have your idea.  And I believe that's the only thing you can argue with me.
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aznable

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #221 on: May 31, 2012, 05:00:22 PM »
@tayvin
in my opinion the price it's too high, just because the mk2 debuted at a lower price, and i am used to get a better product at same price if not lower after some years, but for sure they listened to "users"

@cliffwang
i dont have to do a poll, nikon would enter barely in top 10 Canada's companies by revenues as an example; i didnt say it's a small company but i dont see it as a big company
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briansquibb

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #222 on: May 31, 2012, 05:38:41 PM »
I seems to me that there are several anti Canon/pro Nikon threads - and it is always the same group of suspects whinging and whining

And of course there are always the Canon apologists.
No matter what Canon does (and how overpriced it is), it's always good.

I never understood the mentality of an apologist, btw.
What is it that drives an individual to defend the profit-driven decisions/actions of a profit-driven corporation ??? ?

Me? I just hate overpaying and like to get good deals when paying with my money.
No brand loyalty from me if I feel that a corporation is trying to milk me.

Which individual is that? Me? I am not a fanboy - just the person that is after a camera that demands good IQ from a camera that suits.

For me to move to Nikon would mean buying a D4 to replace the 1D4 - I just hate spending and like to get good deals when paying with my money - that is why all my kit is bought used. Can you say that?


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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #222 on: May 31, 2012, 05:38:41 PM »

psolberg

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #223 on: June 08, 2012, 11:10:08 AM »
since my switch to the big N, I'm really looking forward to this D600 as a backup body to the D800. If it pans out, nikon will have a sweet FF lineup

D700 (8 fps low MP)
D600 (5-6 fps, mid MP)
D3X (though build, mid MP)
D4 (tough build, fast fps, high ISO)
D800 (big MP, high DR)

wow.  :) Now if they can just mix them all into the nikon D4XS  ;D

Marsu42

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #224 on: June 08, 2012, 03:10:21 PM »
since my switch to the big N

Good, Canon-trusting people of EOS land! Get out the holy water, wooden stakes and garlic and go for him!

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Re: Canon are you listening...?? NIKON D600
« Reply #224 on: June 08, 2012, 03:10:21 PM »