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Author Topic: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information  (Read 24649 times)

briansquibb

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2012, 01:51:14 AM »
Compared to the 1D4 in identical circumstances the 5D3 knocked my socks off.

Low light AF on the 1D4 is not stellar - I noticed it in contrast to the 5DII which of course is class leading in low light.

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2012, 01:51:14 AM »

distant.star

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2012, 01:55:34 AM »
.
"I have been given a bit of information as to why it may be difficult to address."

The historical imperative.

In WWII the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers had a motto:

"The difficult we do immediately. The impossible takes a little longer."

Maybe Canon should bring in the Corp on a consulting basis.
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John Thomas

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2012, 03:24:39 AM »
There are two paths which I see now:

1. Keep the AF point(s) lit and adjust for the amount of (over)exposure. Complicated, because there are many lookup tables to combine: many AF points, many AF modes (pinpoint, single, expansion etc.) and many exposure programs. However if the amount of light which each red square emits is additive (ie. the amount of light of 2 (adiacent) AF points is double than one AF point), or obeys to a single simple rule, then the things are fixable.

2. Alternate the phases: In fact, what means "AI Servo" - or rather "continous" exposure?

a.) Turn down the AF points (they will be black)
b.) Get the exposure
c.) (After, let's say) 300 ms turn the AF points on (they will became red)
d.) Keep them red for another 300 ms
e.) Go to a.)

The net effect is that the AF points will blink red while the metering is done inbetween.

Focusing should be done in the best case in parallel. Anyway It is not affected by the light in the way in which we discuss it here.

The second solution will have the advantages that A.) we'll see the camera is "working" (focusing, metering etc.) because the AF points are blinking and B.) we'll see also the subject between the AF point's blinks (here perhaps is better to turn off completely the AF point).

Thoughts? Comments?

HTH

mrjamiegilbert

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2012, 03:57:59 AM »
There are two paths which I see now:

1. Keep the AF point(s) lit and adjust for the amount of (over)exposure. Complicated, because there are many lookup tables to combine: many AF points, many AF modes (pinpoint, single, expansion etc.) and many exposure programs. However if the amount of light which each red square emits is additive (ie. the amount of light of 2 (adiacent) AF points is double than one AF point), or obeys to a single simple rule, then the things are fixable.

2. Alternate the phases: In fact, what means "AI Servo" - or rather "continous" exposure?

a.) Turn down the AF points (they will be black)
b.) Get the exposure
c.) (After, let's say) 300 ms turn the AF points on (they will became red)
d.) Keep them red for another 300 ms
e.) Go to a.)

The net effect is that the AF points will blink red while the metering is done inbetween.

Focusing should be done in the best case in parallel. Anyway It is not affected by the light in the way in which we discuss it here.

The second solution will have the advantages that A.) we'll see the camera is "working" (focusing, metering etc.) because the AF points are blinking and B.) we'll see also the subject between the AF point's blinks (here perhaps is better to turn off completely the AF point).

Thoughts? Comments?

HTH
My thoughts exactly.  I'm sure there are a bunch of tricks Canon could pull to make this work.  What immediately came to my mind was either turning off the light *just* before acquiring the exposure (surely should only take a few milliseconds? But would increase shutter lag..), or strobing the light so it appears constant to the user but would actually be providing enough information to the camera to expose properly under any combination of focus points, if there was enough processing power to do so.  Or as you say HTH, just flashing the points..  Even as a menu option I would choose this.  Anything would be better than nothing.

I'm heading out to shoot a concert tonight.  I expect the black servo points will be an annoyance :o

fiend

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2012, 04:14:08 AM »
I would really like to have a fix to this. It's annoying as hell. Trying to take pictures with ND-filter is almost impossible!

Is this for landscapes? If so is it an improvement when tethered to a laptop  - does the AF point show black in liveview?

No, this was in Studio. Trying to use NDfilter for a shallow depth of field which was almost impossible. I have to guess where the focuspoint was. If I pushed the "fokuspoint-change"-button they all illuminated and I could see them but that don't work that I have to press them first to see where my focuspoint is.

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2012, 12:56:29 PM »
Those of you guys who have problems with the VF... How many of you guys shot with the 7d and how many of you guys had similar issues?

I have the 7D and its not a big issue because its no good in low light in any event, so I do not use it in dark situations.  However, with the 5D MK III being a low light camera and able to shoot in almost darkness, I'd like to light up the focus point like the 1D MK IV, and the Nikon D800.
 
There is a workaround, briefly press the AF point selection button, and all points light with the selected ones flashing, and try to put the point on the subject before they turn off.  Then remember where its at and don't move, or it will focus on something else.  Its really unworkable.
 
I returned mine and bought a slightly used1D MK IV for the same price, and like it better.  Its not as good in low light, particularly at focusing, but I've been using it at up to ISO 12800 and its produces a reasonable image.  I can also AF at f/8 when I'm using TC's.  Its no wonder dealers sells out as soon as they are in stock.
 
I'd like to keep it and my D800, but one has to go, I can't justify having a duplicate set of high end lenses.  I just can't decide which, but I do find myself grabbing the D800 because its smaller.

Cyrano

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Use Manual exposure until the metering question is sorted
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2012, 01:24:09 PM »
One possible way of handling the exposure metering problem with keeping the AF points illuminated during AI Servo: do nothing to fix the metering -- accept that the metering won't work properly, and shoot in Manual exposure mode.

Of course this would not be a viable long-term solution for everyone -- but for those situations where Manual exposure is used, this might permit Canon to provide an interim fix quickly.

When I shoot ballet, it's 100% Manual exposure. For me, having the AF points illuminated continuously at the expense of impaired metering would be an acceptable solution for my primary application of the 1DX.

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Use Manual exposure until the metering question is sorted
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2012, 01:24:09 PM »

Cyrano

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2012, 01:45:53 PM »
... Compared to the 1D4 in identical circumstances the 5D3 knocked my socks off. Where I managed to keep sight of the AF point the keepers rate was way above my expectations. If we had the red AF points visible, the only lost shots would have been from motion blur. I was astounded.

So what a pity Canon has set this camera up with such strong AF and all but murdered it's usability. Cancel the 1DX pre-order? It's a tough call...

PW

You've just confirmed my fondest hopes and my worst fears.

The 1D4 does a great job overall for my dance work, but I lose too many shots to imperfect AF when the dancers are dimly lit and wearing low-contrast costumes. By all accounts, the AF system in the 1DX is brilliant in low light ... but if one can't keep it trained on the subject, it's useless.


briansquibb

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2012, 07:05:09 PM »
I would really like to have a fix to this. It's annoying as hell. Trying to take pictures with ND-filter is almost impossible!

Is this for landscapes? If so is it an improvement when tethered to a laptop  - does the AF point show black in liveview?

No, this was in Studio. Trying to use NDfilter for a shallow depth of field which was almost impossible. I have to guess where the focuspoint was. If I pushed the "fokuspoint-change"-button they all illuminated and I could see them but that don't work that I have to press them first to see where my focuspoint is.

Turn down the lights? Move them further away?

awinphoto

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2012, 11:04:55 PM »
Hey guys, just playing around with my 5d3 and found a way that suits me, don't know about you. Set the multicontroller to select AF points, and shot Ai focus...  Was shooting birds in a dim room and birds don't like to stay still. Anywho as I moved the points around with the one touch movements the light illuminate and pumping the shutter to lock focus illuminated the points.  Once the composition is correct, bam. Still don't get how people lose shots but try it out. I feel this is almost overkill for my taste but keeping the AF points moving, with all those AF points, is probably best.
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Pompo

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2012, 02:09:45 AM »
... Compared to the 1D4 in identical circumstances the 5D3 knocked my socks off. Where I managed to keep sight of the AF point the keepers rate was way above my expectations. If we had the red AF points visible, the only lost shots would have been from motion blur. I was astounded.

So what a pity Canon has set this camera up with such strong AF and all but murdered it's usability. Cancel the 1DX pre-order? It's a tough call...

PW

You've just confirmed my fondest hopes and my worst fears.

The 1D4 does a great job overall for my dance work, but I lose too many shots to imperfect AF when the dancers are dimly lit and wearing low-contrast costumes. By all accounts, the AF system in the 1DX is brilliant in low light ... but if one can't keep it trained on the subject, it's useless.

Dunno what to do either, I'm gonna wait and see if Canon can somehow improve this dumb a$$ "intelligent" view finder before I forkout $7000...It  is crazy that the 1Dx is supposed to be great at low light, yet you won't be able to use it successfully because the dang AF points

fiend

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2012, 06:02:46 AM »
I would really like to have a fix to this. It's annoying as hell. Trying to take pictures with ND-filter is almost impossible!

Is this for landscapes? If so is it an improvement when tethered to a laptop  - does the AF point show black in liveview?

No, this was in Studio. Trying to use NDfilter for a shallow depth of field which was almost impossible. I have to guess where the focuspoint was. If I pushed the "fokuspoint-change"-button they all illuminated and I could see them but that don't work that I have to press them first to see where my focuspoint is.

Turn down the lights? Move them further away?

Not an option :) the lights are turned down to the lowest level and I don't want to move them further away. I want to be able to use ND-filters to get that 1.2 - 2.5 aperture in my studio when I want to. And that's kind of hard to achive without the ND-filters even if Im at ISO 50. (which is a must even if I use a 8x ND-filter).

I would like to see where my Focus point is. And in AI Servo-mode its REALLY impossible to see any focus point because it doesn't light up at any state anyhow. They are just all black against black..

bornshooter

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2012, 06:09:57 AM »
I would also guess that using fast lens makes the black AF points easier to see.

To a point - specifically, with an f/2.8 lens the viewfinder is as bright as it's going to get and the AF points are as dark as they're going to get, meaning maximum contrast.  If you use lenses faster than f/2.8, the AF points actually get washed out - even though the standard focusing screen means the viewfinder doesn't get any brighter with lenses faster than f/2.8, the additional light does affect the transmissive LCD, such that with an f/1.2 lens, the AF point display appears light gray instead of black.
Well jeff ascough thinks other wise when using fast primes but what does he know lol he doesn't shoot test charts like you lol

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2012, 06:09:57 AM »

briansquibb

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2012, 06:14:32 AM »
I would really like to have a fix to this. It's annoying as hell. Trying to take pictures with ND-filter is almost impossible!

Is this for landscapes? If so is it an improvement when tethered to a laptop  - does the AF point show black in liveview?

No, this was in Studio. Trying to use NDfilter for a shallow depth of field which was almost impossible. I have to guess where the focuspoint was. If I pushed the "fokuspoint-change"-button they all illuminated and I could see them but that don't work that I have to press them first to see where my focuspoint is.

Turn down the lights? Move them further away?

Not an option :) the lights are turned down to the lowest level and I don't want to move them further away. I want to be able to use ND-filters to get that 1.2 - 2.5 aperture in my studio when I want to. And that's kind of hard to achive without the ND-filters even if Im at ISO 50. (which is a must even if I use a 8x ND-filter).

I would like to see where my Focus point is. And in AI Servo-mode its REALLY impossible to see any focus point because it doesn't light up at any state anyhow. They are just all black against black..

The 7D has the option to show only the in use AF points - not the same for the 5D?

fiend

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2012, 06:16:48 AM »
I would really like to have a fix to this. It's annoying as hell. Trying to take pictures with ND-filter is almost impossible!

Is this for landscapes? If so is it an improvement when tethered to a laptop  - does the AF point show black in liveview?

No, this was in Studio. Trying to use NDfilter for a shallow depth of field which was almost impossible. I have to guess where the focuspoint was. If I pushed the "fokuspoint-change"-button they all illuminated and I could see them but that don't work that I have to press them first to see where my focuspoint is.

Turn down the lights? Move them further away?

Not an option :) the lights are turned down to the lowest level and I don't want to move them further away. I want to be able to use ND-filters to get that 1.2 - 2.5 aperture in my studio when I want to. And that's kind of hard to achive without the ND-filters even if Im at ISO 50. (which is a must even if I use a 8x ND-filter).

I would like to see where my Focus point is. And in AI Servo-mode its REALLY impossible to see any focus point because it doesn't light up at any state anyhow. They are just all black against black..

The 7D has the option to show only the in use AF points - not the same for the 5D?

And that doesn't help me either, since the black point is black against the black background.

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Re: 5D Mark III & 1D X Black Focus Point in AI Servo Information
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2012, 06:16:48 AM »