November 26, 2014, 03:49:39 PM

Author Topic: Gig photography tips.  (Read 7444 times)

Mackie_P

  • Guest
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2012, 05:51:56 PM »
Saw this and wanted to put in my 2 cents (so to speak), but I recently bought a 50mm f1.4 for live music, having come across the same problems of 2.8 not being fast enough! Anyway, it's pretty much been glued to my camera from how useful it's been at gigs since, the only problem as being on a crop sensor, is it's all pretty close to the 'action' in small venues.

In regards to noise, I use Noise Ninja to clean up my images, it seems to work quite well, and even though turning an image B+W may salvage a noisy shot, it's not my cup of tea as I prefer to keep them colourful. Also bear in mind that you can also crop closer to the focus of the image if you find that everything is a bit wide.

Have tried to attach an example which was shot at 1/100, F1.4 @ iso 1600

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2012, 05:51:56 PM »

Drizzt321

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
    • Aaron Baff Photography
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2012, 09:05:56 PM »
Thanks for the tips Drizzt321. Maybe i am over worrying about noise. Im thinking of getting the 24mm or 35mm and then the 135mm. I might get the samyang 85mm for portraits and video, or save for the sigma 85 1.4.

It was a lot of fun, and I definately want to do it as often as possible (ive been asked back so i guess thats good). I cant imagine many photography situations harder in terms of lighting! And then protecting myself from crowd surfing and beer being thrown haha.

This is one of the examples. I dont have a work flow yet, so all ive done here is import it too dpp then export as a jpeg with quality setting 5 (so it was small enough to attach here). Is that thes best way to do this? I added tungsten lighting setting aswell actually. Let me know your thoughts on noise. I just noticed on one or two others that althought the AF point said it was on the eye, if looks like the microphone cable was actually the main thing in focus! So the face wasnt, sharp.

That image doesn't look really all that noisy, even when I download and zoom in. Some, yes, but I think a lot of it looks like it's just dust and stuff floating in the air that the bright white lights highlight.

In terms of the focus, I think you're correct. Do you remember if you pre-focused and then waited for him? Or did you get the focus & then take the shot immediately? I see you're actually at 1/160 shutter, which is really pretty good, especially for that light where he looks almost a bit overexposed, at least on his back and decent exposure on his face. For something similar to this maybe go down to 1/100 or 1/80 and increase the DoF by going to f/2.8-f/3.5 or so which will help you if he moves a bit between when you get focus and when the shot is taken.
5D mark 2, 5D mark 3, EF 17-40mm f/4L,  EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 85mm f/1.8
Film Cameras: Mamiya RB67, RB-50, RB-180-C, RB-90-C, RB-50, Perkeo I folder, Mamiya Six Folder (Pre-WWII model)
http://www.aaronbaff.com

CJRodgers

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 195
    • View Profile
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2012, 03:29:13 AM »
Mackie_P, i really like your skin tones on that image. Any advice on how i can get a good natural and smooth shot like that or was the lighting possibly a bit nicer at this gig to help you out?


For my shot, i think i was getting frutrated by the deep red lights by this point, so i got the focus and held it until a strobe come on. Is this not a good way to do it. I had the focus set to centre point only and Ai focus.

I have attached another photo which I ALMOST loved, but its not in focus :( i really like the composition (except for a photographer who was alowed in the pit has his arm in the bottom left corner). For this I think i just got the focus and took the show straight away. The focus in DPP says i got her cheek, but its the microphone cable thats in focus! :( Do you think she moved and f2.2 wasnt forgiving enough or do i need to calibrate the lens? I would have though f2.2 would have been ok?!


Also i didnt realise i could shoot and at 1/80 or 1/100 and still freeze the action. I was too scared to go lower than 1/160. I guess i should have given myself for that a couple of hours to get used to the camera!

eeek

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2012, 01:25:00 PM »
Don't be afraid to go higher in your ISO, either.  Sometimes I would rather go higher ISO to stop action than go slower shutter speed.  The first picture was at 1/320, 5.6 and ISO 5000.  It's also a 70-200 2.8 with a 2x as Daughtry didn't want us between his fans.  I'd would have rather not used the 2x but in this case I needed it versus cropping.  The second is close in setting, 1/400, 5.6, ISO 5000 and the 70-200 and 2x.

Edit:  I'm sorry- I shot this at ISO 5,000, not 500.  Edited to refect this.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 01:36:05 PM by eeek »

Drizzt321

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
    • Aaron Baff Photography
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2012, 02:25:45 PM »
Yea, if your subjects aren't thrashing around too much you can get away with a somewhat slower shutter speed, especially on a shorter lens like the 50mm. However, it looks like he was moving around fast, so the 1/160 was probably needed.

Your idea of pre-focusing is good, and AI Servo can sometimes work with the center point on the 5d2, but it's hard sometimes to keep the focus point right where you want. This is where I having a somewhat smaller aperture can help to provide a deeper DoF so you'll be more likely to get the important thing in focus.

@eeek:
Where those on the 5d2? ISO 5000, holy crap that looks clean. How'd you get it that clean? I can believe that if it was on the 5d3, I love how good the 5d3 is with ISO's up to 6400, or even 8000.
5D mark 2, 5D mark 3, EF 17-40mm f/4L,  EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 85mm f/1.8
Film Cameras: Mamiya RB67, RB-50, RB-180-C, RB-90-C, RB-50, Perkeo I folder, Mamiya Six Folder (Pre-WWII model)
http://www.aaronbaff.com

CJRodgers

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 195
    • View Profile
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2012, 03:53:41 PM »
@eek, that is riducoulsly clean! The lighting looks excellent too, great shots.

Yeah they were thrashing about a lot, especially that girl, she was crazy! I think ill be more confident to push my ISO now that i know this is acceptable IF i get it in focus correctly. Is using lightroom for noise reduction better than DPP. I havent been very impressed with its noise reduction but maybe im not using it properly. I cant afford Dx0.

I think i need to try and blag some rock / pop gigs as the lighting seems to be better and more thoughtout. This was a hardcore gig with lighting to match! haha.

eeek

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2012, 04:35:34 PM »
@eeek:
Where those on the 5d2? ISO 5000, holy crap that looks clean. How'd you get it that clean? I can believe that if it was on the 5d3, I love how good the 5d3 is with ISO's up to 6400, or even 8000.

Holy cow I feel dumb.  I thought CJRodgers posted that he had got a III not a II.  With my II, if I have to, I feel safe pushing it to 3200, sometimes a few 1/3 stops above that.  As far as low light concert photography goes, the II's focus really struggles off the center point.  Unless you focus and recompse to the center, you are going to miss things.  If it is a really low light bar or small venue, I'll use a 580 with the flash turned off or a ST-E2.  But, they do throw light- make sure that's cool with the artists or venues.  That being said, when I shoot something like that I take usually a 50 1.4 and an 85 1.5.  I find they are always poorly lit and I have to spend a lot of time in post playing with noise reduction.  When I shoot arena or big show, it's all 2.8 stuff.  16-35, 24-70 and 70-200.


canon rumors FORUM

Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2012, 04:35:34 PM »

Mackie_P

  • Guest
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2012, 07:34:48 PM »
Mackie_P, i really like your skin tones on that image. Any advice on how i can get a good natural and smooth shot like that or was the lighting possibly a bit nicer at this gig to help you out?


For my shot, i think i was getting frutrated by the deep red lights by this point, so i got the focus and held it until a strobe come on. Is this not a good way to do it. I had the focus set to centre point only and Ai focus.

I have attached another photo which I ALMOST loved, but its not in focus :( i really like the composition (except for a photographer who was alowed in the pit has his arm in the bottom left corner). For this I think i just got the focus and took the show straight away. The focus in DPP says i got her cheek, but its the microphone cable thats in focus! :( Do you think she moved and f2.2 wasnt forgiving enough or do i need to calibrate the lens? I would have though f2.2 would have been ok?!


Also i didnt realise i could shoot and at 1/80 or 1/100 and still freeze the action. I was too scared to go lower than 1/160. I guess i should have given myself for that a couple of hours to get used to the camera!

Thanks man, the lighting was pretty sporadic and unpredictable, so for the most part I would be firing long bursts of shots, the keep rate is low, but there's more chance you'll catch a strobe which isn't red.  :P

To be honest, f2.2 isn't particularly forgiving, and isn't helped by strobes reflecting off any shiny, or polished surfaces- however someone with more experience may be able to shed more light on calibration, which I haven't looked into.

I'll try and re-trace my editing for this set, and see if I can find out what I did for the skin tones, but the 50mm was wide open, so I'm guessing it was due to the depth of field, and soft lens.

I guess the shutter speed really varies on the act, usually, I struggle to go any lower than 1/100.

olivander

  • Power Shot G7X
  • **
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2012, 08:38:13 PM »
Shoot manual, and adjust as you go.

For all the tips, and tricks people will give you, you're going to find a sweet spot with every shot you take, if your camera is underexposing, then pull back your shutter, if it's over exposing but your shutters already quite high, dial back your aperture.

And if the venue sucks, wait for more light, or just shoot and worry about it later. These days atleast we have post, also with concert stuff, I don't recommend shooting raw unless you plan to A blow it up, B there's a lot of blow out, Concert is fast paced, you chew through memory cards like there's no tomorrow and the noise gained from shooting Raw isn't worth it, it's easier to gain crisp shots with minimal editing (especially if you have to have my turn around times, which are usually 12-24 hours)/

I "prime"arily use 24 L II, 50 1.4, 85 1.2, and 1.8, (I favour the 1.8, because it's light and practical, the 1.2 is for crazy shots, where I know I'm in a cave pretty much, and the 1.8 is more practical) and then the I have the 70-200mm when I'm asked to do something crazy like Kanye West (that was insane, I sat at 800iso at f/4 at 1/200 and still managed to get way too much blow out in a lot of the shots).

I don't recommend the 24-70, or any other zoom. Too many idiots with not enough light coming through there lens these days favour that, and get frustrated when I can get the shot and they can't

Also if the lights F_____ go for close ups, you'll get more accurate focus and if you have IS, you'll get a lot out of that feature then and there. (Probably the only time it's useful).

http://ofoliver.tumblr.com for some idea of my concert work (to know I'm not just giving my 2 cents for the sake of it), I prefer the challenge of shooting stuff that's hard, and at the moment I'm favouring smaller stuff because you get more time to get your shot (when I've shot stuff like Foster The People, Two Door Cinema Club, Jimmy Eat World etc etc, it's 10 minutes or less, often 3 minutes ~ Gotye I got 45 seconds, because the PR girl in charge was a drunk mess but that's another story).

Don't use flash unless there's people moshing, and don't discount the atmosphere around you, those can help you build up to your leading shots, and try not to use the same shots in your gallery/portfolio over and over again. I like to really take my time, I make sure I get the perfect shot with my tele, then I might move around stage, what for the star to move or switch to the 24mm, or the 50mm, to get a different effect more light, crowd shots or whatever, the same shot can be boring. That even applies during if I've only got 10 minutes.

And make friends with security when you can, they will let you do some dodgy stuff like jumping over barriers, or climbing side stage, or going up into the DJ booth when you really shouldn't. Those can help you get the best shots, (I did that with the Wombats most recently, went back stage, and snapped a few looking out over the crowd).

And 2.2 isn't high if the lights good, no one knows what the venues like except you, so shoot prime, shoot fast glass, and crop/full frame really isn't that important (I carry both a 7D and a 5D for concert work).

eeek

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2012, 09:10:06 PM »
I stand corrected.  Apparently I am an idiot for liking my 24-70.  My editor is not going to like that.

Drizzt321

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
    • Aaron Baff Photography
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2012, 10:29:26 PM »
I stand corrected.  Apparently I am an idiot for liking my 24-70.  My editor is not going to like that.

LOL

BTW, was that shot above 5d2 or 5d3?
5D mark 2, 5D mark 3, EF 17-40mm f/4L,  EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 85mm f/1.8
Film Cameras: Mamiya RB67, RB-50, RB-180-C, RB-90-C, RB-50, Perkeo I folder, Mamiya Six Folder (Pre-WWII model)
http://www.aaronbaff.com

eeek

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2012, 10:56:28 PM »
It was a 3- I thought the orignal poster had a 3. 

Drizzt321

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
    • Aaron Baff Photography
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2012, 01:15:28 AM »
It was a 3- I thought the orignal poster had a 3.

Ah, cool. Those shots looked like they came from a 3 :)   I really love mine, got some awesome shots from a show, it was like a dream. Especially the AF & ISO noise!
5D mark 2, 5D mark 3, EF 17-40mm f/4L,  EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 85mm f/1.8
Film Cameras: Mamiya RB67, RB-50, RB-180-C, RB-90-C, RB-50, Perkeo I folder, Mamiya Six Folder (Pre-WWII model)
http://www.aaronbaff.com

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2012, 01:15:28 AM »

CJRodgers

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 195
    • View Profile
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2012, 04:11:33 AM »
It was a 3- I thought the orignal poster had a 3.

Ah, cool. Those shots looked like they came from a 3 :)   I really love mine, got some awesome shots from a show, it was like a dream. Especially the AF & ISO noise!

Can you all stop making me wish I had saved harder for a 3! haha. Probably would have if I wasnt getting married this year! Now thats a quick way to spend a fortune in a day :P

Thanks all for the advice, and Olivander that was a great post. I think i just need to get out there and practsise more now, and not be too annoyed i didnt get the perfect settings on my first day (especially without a press pass).

Cant wait to get some new lenses as well :) I think im going for the 135L definately, then choosing between thje 24L and 35L. I want the 24 but i dont know if the 35 is more sensible.

Drizzt321

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
    • Aaron Baff Photography
Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2012, 12:29:03 PM »
It was a 3- I thought the orignal poster had a 3.

Ah, cool. Those shots looked like they came from a 3 :)   I really love mine, got some awesome shots from a show, it was like a dream. Especially the AF & ISO noise!

Can you all stop making me wish I had saved harder for a 3! haha. Probably would have if I wasnt getting married this year! Now thats a quick way to spend a fortune in a day :P

Thanks all for the advice, and Olivander that was a great post. I think i just need to get out there and practsise more now, and not be too annoyed i didnt get the perfect settings on my first day (especially without a press pass).

Cant wait to get some new lenses as well :) I think im going for the 135L definately, then choosing between thje 24L and 35L. I want the 24 but i dont know if the 35 is more sensible.

Well, unless you need the wide angle of view (capture most/all of the stage when you're really close) or you want to get really, really up close and personal, I'd say the 35L is a better bet. I really want the 24L, but the 35L is probably better for me to get first. Heh, I'm thinking next month (July) I might go over to Keh.com and get a used 20-35L since the reviews say it's pretty good, even for a 20+ year old design.
5D mark 2, 5D mark 3, EF 17-40mm f/4L,  EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 85mm f/1.8
Film Cameras: Mamiya RB67, RB-50, RB-180-C, RB-90-C, RB-50, Perkeo I folder, Mamiya Six Folder (Pre-WWII model)
http://www.aaronbaff.com

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Gig photography tips.
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2012, 12:29:03 PM »