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Author Topic: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]  (Read 18450 times)

John Thomas

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2012, 03:15:12 AM »
Yes - the most possible scenario is that their "hardware failure" is called Nikon. :)

However, they must take care at some things:

1.) By improving 1DX to not leave the impression that 5D3 is abandoned.
Abandoned customers will abandon the brand.

Also, it will create a pretty nasty chain reaction which will tarnish even more the Canon's reputation which, truth to be said, isn't at its heights nowadays. Nothing worse than the word of mouth from a burned customer.

2.) Improving 1DX in such small amount of time is a sensible matter. But this has two planes: hardware and software (ok, firmware).

Doable but they must be very careful at a big dark trap which any Canon engineer should know: if they do a mistake in firmware and this is found after the product is in the field, this is easily fixable (the cost is low) but if they do a mistake in hardware and this is found in the field then this can be the final tombstone.

Generally speaking, in this situation, significant improvements in firmware has by far the biggest return of investment and they should give much more importance to this now.

However, I think that they are forced to mess up with the hardware and that's why 1DX is delayed.

0.02c++

JohnTh

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2012, 03:15:12 AM »

kozakm

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2012, 03:16:23 AM »
Well that explains why the guy on that other forum that said he had received his and uploaded pictures, but then later deleted his post and the pictures.


That doesn't explain anything :) Because I was allowed to publish photos from preproduction version almost without any restrictions. I probably could even post raw files (at least the document I received didn't make any difference between raw and jpg.)

Few real life samples (converted from RAW in Camera RAW 6.7 RC with default settings):
http://www.martinkozak.com/?p=12170

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2012, 03:38:13 AM »
Given the target market, the price and the fact that their reputation in the professional market rides on this camera, is it any wonder that Canon wants to make sure the thing is as close to perfect as possible before releasing it?

If they think this, they must be really desperate - engineering is always a compromise between dev time and product lifecycle, thus making "near perfection" an idea for geeks, not for a commercial company. It's much more likely that they found flaws (f8 af?) they couldn't get away with given the competition, so rather than "near perfection" its more like "good enough".

1.) By improving 1DX to not leave the impression that 5D3 is abandoned.
Abandoned customers will abandon the brand.

Are you suggesting that Canon would be well-advised not to put any significant last-minute improvement in the 1dx, because it may make the 5d3 look bad? Geez, this is the way of technology - and Canon will hardly stop development because some 5d3 users are a bit touchy when they hear "Nikon" and could not stand internal Canon competition, too. Didn't tons of 5d3 threads establish that the 5d3 is a great body at any price and nothing else matters, esp. not other alternatives :-o ?

briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2012, 03:54:50 AM »
Perhaps Canon have learnt from Nikon's mistake of early release of the D800 and D4. They have just issued their first firmware upgrade to cure lockups and other issues.

Can you imagine the noise if Canon released the 1DX with those problems. The only hitch with the 5DIII was the non problem of the light leak which was blown out of all proportion.

The D800 issues are real nasty things - I would be sending the D800 back if this happened to me

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-11677-12641

pwp

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2012, 04:05:52 AM »
There are obvious reasons to buy the 1D X regardless of any possible new features. Its service lifetime cycle is way longer. The 400,000 actuation time line between repairs means that it costs less / is more efficient than the 5D3 with only 150,000 actuations between repairs. $6,800 is less than twice the price of the 5D3, and the 1D X will last many times longer with much less than half as much needed service/repairs.

The 1D X is a much cheaper option for anyone willing to look at it the way an accountant would, plus with every photograph it provides a very significant increase in quality and ability to capture difficult photos.

I love your logic. In hindsight it's probably true. I work my bodies hard and I've never worn out a 1-Series going right back to film EOS 1n. I can't say the same for xxD or 5D bodies. What a perfect justification for not cancelling my 1DX pre-order. Thanks! +1

Though I did do a job today with 1D4 & 5D3 and the black focus points on the 5D3 lost shots for me again...I plain lost sight of the selected focus point against a dark subject and missed peak moments. Hopefully the fix for this is part of the 1DX delay.

PW

nikkito

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2012, 04:23:02 AM »
Call me crazy, but eventhough it's a new camera, with all this delays and everything, I have the feeling this camera is old!

Maybe it's true what many of you have said here, maybe the replacements of the 1D X is coming before this new/old/inexistent model.  ::)
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Viggo

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2012, 04:41:17 AM »
At 12 fps you would run through those 400k actuations at the same time it takes the 5d3 to run through the 150k. And that being said, the less strain on the shutter, the longer it lasts (over what canon guarantees) We've seen the thread were people have put 1 million actuations on a 50d. I'm not worried about running out on the 5d3. Plus, that shutter will be way less expensive to replace.

This is of course a stand alone point. If you HAVE TO HAVE 12 fps for your fast action work, the 5d isn't an option. But for me who have always loved and used 1d's, I couldn't be happier that the X was delayed long enough for me to jump on a 5d3. I LOVE that thing.
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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2012, 04:41:17 AM »

Viggo

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2012, 04:50:44 AM »
Call me crazy, but eventhough it's a new camera, with all this delays and everything, I have the feeling this camera is old!


+1 ! If it's only that much better than the 5d3 like we've seen, with obvious better noisehandling, but not much else, and it essentially is what was announced and all this time was just spent fixing what they promised soon to be a year ago, I agree with you. It feels old, we've know what it suppose to do, but can't do it.

I don't invite people to a stuntshow promising I can jump 60 buses on a dirt-bike while I draw the people watching while I'm doing backflips and when people show up I simply say "Oh, but, uhm, I need to practice first, I have never been on a bike like this..."
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wockawocka

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2012, 04:56:51 AM »
Maybe we'll have red af points and f8 in the revised version.
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dilbert

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2012, 05:07:17 AM »
Maybe we'll have red af points and f8 in the revised version.

My money would be on this too.

Viggo

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2012, 05:16:38 AM »
Maybe we'll have red af points and f8 in the revised version.

My money would be on this too.

This is also one of the reasons I think it's feeling old. People already want new features, and frankly, they should have been there already. But I think it's VERY unlikely that they add something of extreme significance. People, including me, are going to be dissapointed to see the entire list of things we're hope to be added, just wiped away, and we are stuck with what we already know about features. So if canon made it right from the start, and announced and produced and it hit the shelfs in january, this would have been a fantastic camera. Now it will be an anti-climax.
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nikkito

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2012, 05:36:21 AM »
Call me crazy, but eventhough it's a new camera, with all this delays and everything, I have the feeling this camera is old!

I don't invite people to a stuntshow promising I can jump 60 buses on a dirt-bike while I draw the people watching while I'm doing backflips and when people show up I simply say "Oh, but, uhm, I need to practice first, I have never been on a bike like this..."

that was a great analogy. apparently Canon does that :P hehe
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1D X, 5D Mk III, 5D Mk II, 16-35L, 24-70L, 70-200L IS, 85 f1.2, 40 f2.8, 50 f1.4, Sigma 10-20 and many other toy cameras.

PhilDrinkwater

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2012, 05:36:35 AM »
Call me crazy, but eventhough it's a new camera, with all this delays and everything, I have the feeling this camera is old!


+1 ! If it's only that much better than the 5d3 like we've seen, with obvious better noisehandling, but not much else, and it essentially is what was announced and all this time was just spent fixing what they promised soon to be a year ago, I agree with you. It feels old, we've know what it suppose to do, but can't do it.

I don't invite people to a stuntshow promising I can jump 60 buses on a dirt-bike while I draw the people watching while I'm doing backflips and when people show up I simply say "Oh, but, uhm, I need to practice first, I have never been on a bike like this..."

If I'm honest, the core 1dx market won't care. They just want a tool to do a job. Generally speaking, they don't come on forum sites since they are busy covering the Olympics etc...

If there are delays due to adding new significant features or changing hardware, you can be pretty sure it's due to getting feedback from people who've used them for a while and they have to get this camera right.

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2012, 05:36:35 AM »

Ivar

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2012, 05:46:04 AM »
You sound like any earlier Canon camera has had no FW update. Considering how complex the software has become, a FW update is rather a minor thing. Important is to get the HW right and the product 99% working.

P.S I'm willing to make a bet that the 1Dx gets its FW update as well, absolutely no doubt.

P.P.S Internet unfortunately works that way by making rare things seemingly to affect everybody and often. The reality for the D800 is the same as for the 5D3 - in the real world usage no problems for majority.

Perhaps Canon have learnt from Nikon's mistake of early release of the D800 and D4. They have just issued their first firmware upgrade to cure lockups and other issues.

Can you imagine the noise if Canon released the 1DX with those problems. The only hitch with the 5DIII was the non problem of the light leak which was blown out of all proportion.

The D800 issues are real nasty things - I would be sending the D800 back if this happened to me

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-11677-12641
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 05:52:14 AM by Ivar »

sanj

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2012, 06:16:13 AM »
Perhaps their strategy is to make all the impatient photographers buy 5d3. Then come out with a super 1dx and tantalize them to buy 1dx also.
In other words I am hoping the IQ of 1dx is way ahead of 5d3... (Don't pounce on me, I love the IQ of my 5d3 but I also know that 1 series have the best IQ of comparable models.)

In any case my 1dx is on pre order.. life is too short to buy cars...

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Re: Canon EOS-1D X Delays [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2012, 06:16:13 AM »