October 01, 2014, 12:35:36 AM

Author Topic: *UPDATE* Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8 [CR3]  (Read 32071 times)

Silverstream

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2012, 02:10:28 AM »
To Chewngum:

I have been very pleased with the sharpness I have gotten with certain lenses on my t2i. Here is a link to a 100% clip from an above head to breast height image. F18 Iso100 1/160 with an EFS 17-55 F2.8 IS. See attachment.

I am very pleased with the sharpness I get. I just want a better low light sensitivity/less noise and better low light autofocus.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 02:20:40 AM by Silverstream »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2012, 02:10:28 AM »

Chewngum

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
  • F1.6 is the best.
    • View Profile
    • Peter Kingsley Photography
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2012, 02:35:56 AM »
To Chewngum:

I have been very pleased with the sharpness I have gotten with certain lenses on my t2i. Here is a link to a 100% clip from an above head to breast height image. F18 Iso100 1/160 with an EFS 17-55 F2.8 IS. See attachment.

I am very pleased with the sharpness I get. I just want a better low light sensitivity/less noise and better low light autofocus.
The 7d has features which allow me to get a shot i may not have gotten otherwise, but ultimately i just dont think it had a sensor performing the way it should. Sharpness would only affect about 5% of the images i output, often reliability is more important. Anyway I am done on the 7d topic, I would apreciate Canon improving the APS-C sensor they are using...they have ergonomics, build and features where it counts but better image quality would make the the 7d the APS-C camera unbeatable in all aspects. I look forward to seeing what canon produces...I'm ready for similar IQ to the pentax and Fuji sensors.
Cameras: 5d2, 5d3
Lenses: 17-40L 24-105L 50L 100L s35A s85 70-200L IS II + lots of flashes. About 100 previous bodies/lenses

Silverstream

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2012, 02:51:00 AM »
The 7d has features which allow me to get a shot i may not have gotten otherwise, but ultimately i just dont think it had a sensor performing the way it should. Sharpness would only affect about 5% of the images i output, often reliability is more important. Anyway I am done on the 7d topic, I would apreciate Canon improving the APS-C sensor they are using...they have ergonomics, build and features where it counts but better image quality would make the the 7d the APS-C camera unbeatable in all aspects. I look forward to seeing what canon produces...I'm ready for similar IQ to the pentax and Fuji sensors.

If Canon released the t4i without a new sensor, I would have serious doubts about Canon's short term outlook in the low end DLSR market. It doesn't make sense that they would put out the same sensor when Sony and Nikon have the level of offerings they have. Canon has been at the forefront of development in this area for quite some time now. I doubt they want to relinquish the lead.
On the 7D note, there were rumors posted about merging the 7D and 60D bodies to make way for a low end full frame in their price lineup. I personally would buy a 70D in a heartbeat over the T4i if both were available simultaneously soon (For hopefully even better autofocus and microlensadjustment if the new 70d had it).

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 982
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2012, 03:14:08 AM »
The 7d has features which allow me to get a shot i may not have gotten otherwise, but ultimately i just dont think it had a sensor performing the way it should. Sharpness would only affect about 5% of the images i output, often reliability is more important. Anyway I am done on the 7d topic, I would apreciate Canon improving the APS-C sensor they are using...they have ergonomics, build and features where it counts but better image quality would make the the 7d the APS-C camera unbeatable in all aspects. I look forward to seeing what canon produces...I'm ready for similar IQ to the pentax and Fuji sensors.

As a 7D user I agree with you that the 7D with the Nikon D7000 sensor (+electronics) would by far be the best APS-C camera around.

At the same time I do not find the sensor in my to be "terrible" at all. I am quite pleased with sharpness as well as overall image quality I get, although the 7D sensor is technically outclassed by the best newer cameras by now - but more so in DR and low-ISO noise than in sharpness.

Maybe you really got a sub-standard camera.

Hesbehindyou

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2012, 03:36:16 AM »
ultimately i just dont think it had a sensor performing the way it should.
At the same time I do not find the sensor in my to be "terrible" at all. I am quite pleased with sharpness as well as overall image quality I get ..
Maybe you really got a sub-standard camera.

He said he'd tried three. The usual error is comparing 100% crops.

Chewngum

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
  • F1.6 is the best.
    • View Profile
    • Peter Kingsley Photography
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2012, 05:01:35 AM »

If Canon released the t4i without a new sensor, I would have serious doubts about Canon's short term outlook in the low end DLSR market.

7d...550d...60d..600d? I had serious doubts when the 60d had the sensor. Canon have too much big brand name'ness' about themselves and i see too many people buying Canon thinking they're getting the best without even researching what suits them. I rarely see someone buy nikon unless they've done a little research. I worked camera retail for 2 years and it was often a mission to convince yuppi's to buy anything other than canon.
Cameras: 5d2, 5d3
Lenses: 17-40L 24-105L 50L 100L s35A s85 70-200L IS II + lots of flashes. About 100 previous bodies/lenses

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4666
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2012, 05:27:27 AM »
If Canon released the t4i without a new sensor, I would have serious doubts about Canon's short term outlook in the low end DLSR market.
7d...550d...60d..600d? I had serious doubts when the 60d had the sensor.

At least telling from the dslr stuff tourists (there are a lot in Berlin) carry around, it's 2/3 Canon and many many nowadays rather cheap 600d. So releasing the same sensor over and over again really doesn't seem to matter to the xxxd crowd, and rightly so, they'll hardly ever reach the sensor's limits and/or wouldn't notice a slight improvement. But they would notice if the body price went up $100 because Canon wouldn't put it the standard sensor in it anymore.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2012, 05:27:27 AM »

eyeland

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 143
  • Daybreak broke me loose and brought me back...
    • View Profile
    • Creative Consulting & Multimedia artistry ;)
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2012, 05:55:18 AM »
I have been saving for a new DSLR for a while now and as the money intended for a FF had to go to a new laptop I have been searching for a decent budget DSRL to keep me going until I can afford FF :(. I think the only thing that kept me from getting the 550D/600D is that upon testing them, I found the AF system not just surprisingly inferior but almost useless (given that one shoots under sub-optimal conditions and like to change AF points). I grew up with Film, and the Rebel AF system would have been a minor gripe for me if it hadn't been for the VF making precise MF very difficult especially in the situations where the AF fails. (Granted, LV zoom and Magic Lantern aids the use of MF greatly but it can be quite hard to use without something to stabilize the cam.)
Of course the sensor is important, but I would take improved VF and/or AF any day over improved sensor in this price-range.
5DIII+ML // 24-105L - 70-200 2.8L/2.8 IS II - 35/2 IS //\  AF/non-AF film bodies and lenses. (and half a darkroom in boxes:))

paul13walnut5

  • Guest
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2012, 07:27:54 AM »
@chewngum
Quote
Also you said "Either your best resolving lenses aren't as sharp as you think, or you haven't set the camera up properly, or you can't use DPP or photoshop."

Hmmm, if you give 3 options, all of which are user error, then that means you think its user error...no room for movement in your statement sorry.

Once again you misquote, or deliberately misinterpret me.   I really tried to give you that 1% out that it may be a faulty camera rather than the more likely fact that you can't work it properly.  Especially given that you've went through three.

Interesting that you mention you get on fine with the more basic 40D and 50D which have AF that doesn't require setting up.  I thinks me sees the problem maybes.  The 7D is really for advance users who are willing to read the manual and spend some time setting the camera up. 

Maybe a camera that works reasonably right out the box is your best bet.

I gave three scenarios: crap or faulty lenses, poor camera operation, or poor post-processing.  In 99% of cases it will be one of, two of or a combination of all three.  See there's still that 1% to let 'those with a dud camera' off the hook.

You also allude to pixel peeping.  I'm sure I made it a resolution of mine a few years back to stop debating with pixel peepers..  How did you get on when you shot film?  Did you complain to kodak that the silver hallide grains were the wrong shape or not sharp enough, or did you not look at your negaitives through a microscope?

Please don't misquote me again.   Go and buy something simple that you can work.  The 7D is obviously a rung above your aspirations / ability.

Chewngum

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
  • F1.6 is the best.
    • View Profile
    • Peter Kingsley Photography
Re: *UPDATE* Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8 [CR3]
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2012, 08:28:13 AM »
Paul I know the AF back to front of all my cameras and many i dont own. I spend many hours getting to know a camera before i try and use it for paid work. I have never had a real problem with AF, especially on the 7d. The reason i preferred the 50d and 40d was their sensors. There is a distinct difference between OOF and not sharp that you dont realise obviously. Also I am 21 and only used film for kicks for 5 years before switching to all digital 5 years ago. I never complained about film because i was born into an age where I can pick apart equipment and where small tolerances do affect me, especially if I am putting 10k+ investment into it. If you love film so much then  shoot exclusively on film, it wont affect me. Sharpness doesn't always matter but start printing 1mx2m prints and you might realise thats where a good combination of sensor and lens will shine!
Cameras: 5d2, 5d3
Lenses: 17-40L 24-105L 50L 100L s35A s85 70-200L IS II + lots of flashes. About 100 previous bodies/lenses

paul13walnut5

  • Guest
Re: *UPDATE* Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8 [CR3]
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2012, 08:39:56 AM »
Which would be the 3rd possibility, poor postproduction.
Have you tried processing with usm in dpp or acr?  I had a 400d, same senor as 40d (though older 12bit d2 processor) and my 7d images (and t2i & t3i) outperform those from the older sensor.   I do more post prod and will more often than not shoot RAW, but I've had no reason to think the camera us inherently unsharp.  How close do you stand to your 1m x 2m prints?  Like pixel peeping, when you consider the enlargement factor (postage stamp to 2m squared) i think maybe expectations are set a little high,

Chewngum

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
  • F1.6 is the best.
    • View Profile
    • Peter Kingsley Photography
Re: *UPDATE* Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8 [CR3]
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2012, 08:44:59 AM »
All of this is besides the point. I am ready for a new APS-C sensor and can't wait for a 7dII or equivalent cam with it.
Cameras: 5d2, 5d3
Lenses: 17-40L 24-105L 50L 100L s35A s85 70-200L IS II + lots of flashes. About 100 previous bodies/lenses

paul13walnut5

  • Guest
Re: *UPDATE* Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8 [CR3]
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2012, 09:11:05 AM »
We can agree on that, at least.  Always interested to see where new tech takes us.  And at least canon are finally realising the pixel quality is as important as pixel quantity.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: *UPDATE* Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8 [CR3]
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2012, 09:11:05 AM »

SambalOelek

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2012, 09:18:17 AM »
I have been very pleased with the sharpness I have gotten with certain lenses on my t2i. Here is a link to a 100% clip from an above head to breast height image. F18 Iso100 1/160 with an EFS 17-55 F2.8 IS.

If you are very pleased with T2i sharpness at f/18, you'll be blown away by its performance at f/5.6 :)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 07:39:18 AM by SambalOelek »
1D X, 1D IV, 5D III, 6D, 7D, M. Assorted lenses.

Silverstream

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2012, 01:35:03 PM »
If you are very pleased with T2i sharpness at f/18, you'll be blown away by it's performance at f/5.6 :)

I have had a shoe issue with my T2i that makes TTL work rather flakily at times. It will go to full  blast exposure occasionally.  I can then reset my camera by turning it off and on which sometimes works, OR, in a pinch, I just adjust my camera to compensate as I did here. As soon as I get a new body, this T2i goes in for repair. The flash was an Einstein 640 w/ Beauty Dish in conjunction with a reflector. I was going for a high key look after all!

FYI, it worked flawlessly for quite a while btw. But since it started doing this, it has been a serious pain in the butt at times.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 01:52:56 PM by Silverstream »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Rebel T4i/650D on June 8, 2012? [CR2.5]
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2012, 01:35:03 PM »