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Author Topic: 1Ds Replacement Soon?  (Read 15743 times)

Rob

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2011, 11:24:59 AM »
If Canon brought out a 1D MK5, made it Full Frame with 21mp and with iso that bettered the D3s at the same price level it would turn the table back in their favour. Then worry about a 1Ds replacement down the line, maybe with 40mp+? for those that want it.
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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2011, 11:24:59 AM »

motorhead

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2011, 01:28:37 PM »
Rob,

That would be entirely the wrong camera for me. 21mp is yesterdays news, everyone seems to have cameras with at least that these days. I will also never need the extremely high ISO's already being offered. No I want the 40MP now, with 50 (or more) next time around.

dwward

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2011, 03:13:11 PM »
Quote
Each new technology generation at Canon has been introduced with the announcement of a new 1D camera.

The next technology generation will be no exception - 1DV first and then the other models.

From a business perspective, this makes perfect sense.  Some folks here seem to lose sight of a very simple truth: The sole purpose for any publicly traded company to exist -- including Canon and Nikon -- is to maximize profits.  Canon doesn't compete with Nikon to win a race -- they compete to maximize revenue and take market share from competitors which translates to more profits. 

I've read here many times that the 5DM2 cannibalized the 1Ds market.  If true, Canon will not want this to happen again as the margin on the 1D line is greater (just like the margin on a Cadillac Escalade is significantly greater than a Denali). 

So, if Canon wants to make a FF splash with a significant upgrade, it will be the 1Ds with a lesser version in the form of a 5DM3 to follow many months or even year later.   Canon wouldn't want those who have been waiting for new FF to have all bought the 5DM3 when they announce a new 1Ds. 

Maybe Canon isn't ready for a significant upgrade, so they update the 5D line by tinkering at the margins (7D dual processors and 7D auto focus for instance) to bolster sales while they ready the new 1Ds. 

But if there is a splash to be made by significant upgrades (ie major megapixel boast), how can that not be first released in the 1D line?

Updating the 7D before the older 5DM2 makes no sense me.

my 2 cents. 

Bob Howland

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2011, 04:02:02 PM »
So, if Canon wants to make a FF splash with a significant upgrade, it will be the 1Ds with a lesser version in the form of a 5DM3 to follow many months or even year later.   Canon wouldn't want those who have been waiting for new FF to have all bought the 5DM3 when they announce a new 1Ds. 

Nor, after a 1Ds4 introduction, do they want prospective 1Ds4 buyers to wait for a 5DMk3 that they expect to come, especially if those buyers already own a 1Ds3 or 5D2 and find their current cameras' image quality to be acceptable for most or all of their work. This problem isn't unique to Canon. There are a considerable number of Nikonians who have been impatiently waiting for a D700X with the D3X sensor and a D700S with the D3S sensor.

Justin

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2011, 04:50:59 PM »
You're both right. But remember that high margin products are not money makers without volume. Canon makes more money in consumer imaging selling rebels than it does any other slr. A dual announcement with real differentiation between the technologies obviates the problems you both describe. The problem Canon has created and the world of Canon shooters has had to live with during these past 4 years or so is there is either too much or not enough product differentiation between technologies. Think of it this way:

1) there is NO one Canon camera that does everything (1Ds3 and 5D2 have their own strengths and weaknesses, price, sensor, AF, ruggedness, etc)
2) important technologies work their way into lower level models whose core specs don't meet the photographer's needs (7D has a wonderful AF system and is more rugged than a 5D2 and a hell of a lot faster, but does not match IQ of the full frame 5D2 OR 1D4 meets the ruggedness and speed and focal length multiplier criteria for sports shooters, but lacks the detail in files that the 1Ds has).

What do people who frequent boards expect and or want from these cameras? Hopefully Canon will exceed our expectations but those expectations go something like this:

5D3
-full frame sensor upgrade
-low light capability
-faster processing
-modest frames per second bump (maybe 4.0 or 4.2)
-improved auto focus (everyone cites the 7D as a target)
-improved ruggedness and weather sealing (this is after all a tool used widely by landscapers and outdoor shooters)

1Ds4
-major full frame sensor upgrade (very high resolution (push into medium territory which means 40+ MP minimum for studio work)
-low light advantages over medium format (so clean ISO 3200)
-frame per second advantages over medium format (think minimum of 5 fps)
-capable AF
-fast processing
-built in triggering and command for strobes
-rugged with ample battery life





So, if Canon wants to make a FF splash with a significant upgrade, it will be the 1Ds with a lesser version in the form of a 5DM3 to follow many months or even year later.   Canon wouldn't want those who have been waiting for new FF to have all bought the 5DM3 when they announce a new 1Ds. 

Nor, after a 1Ds4 introduction, do they want prospective 1Ds4 buyers to wait for a 5DMk3 that they expect to come, especially if those buyers already own a 1Ds3 or 5D2 and find their current cameras' image quality to be acceptable for most or all of their work. This problem isn't unique to Canon. There are a considerable number of Nikonians who have been impatiently waiting for a D700X with the D3X sensor and a D700S with the D3S sensor.

AJ

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2011, 07:05:05 PM »
i'm not entirely sure if there's any strategic value in releasing the 1ds4 before the 5d3.

Anyone in the market who would drop 10k on a camera would most likely wait the extra month or two to see what the 5d3 offers.

Em, no.

If a pro needs a camera, he or she will buy it now.  They are not technology-speculating geeks.

A pro will buy the camera for its build, dual card slots, etc.  Stuff that the 5D series doesn't offer.  5D = consumer, 1Ds = pro.  Completely different markets.

Bob Howland

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2011, 09:08:17 PM »
A pro will buy the camera for its build, dual card slots, etc.  Stuff that the 5D series doesn't offer.  5D = consumer, 1Ds = pro.  Completely different markets.

So what are the people making a living using 5D's? There seem to be an awful lot of them.

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2011, 09:08:17 PM »

motorhead

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2011, 12:00:22 PM »
I know two pro's still happily using the 30D and I have heard of another using a 20D. Why spend a fortune on kit when something cheaper does the job? It's the nut on the end of the shutter button that makes or breaks the image, not the kit. An aquaintance works as a staff 'tog on a UK sailing mag, all his kit is well used, especially the tripod, which is literally held together with brown plastic tape!

However, I fully understand that the 1D series is built like a tank because its designed to be a professional tool, while the 5D is less robust. I admit that I am in the market when the 1Ds mk4 appears, talent, or rather a lack of,  will then clearly be my only problem!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 01:38:02 PM by motorhead »

tzalmagor

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2011, 05:32:40 AM »
That would be entirely the wrong camera for me. 21mp is yesterdays news, everyone seems to have cameras with at least that these days. I will also never need the extremely high ISO's already being offered. No I want the 40MP now, with 50 (or more) next time around.

Seems to have, or actually need ? Not everybody buys a DSLR to print posters.

motorhead

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2011, 06:24:52 AM »
Sorry, should have been clearer. I was referring to camera manufacturers. I agree for the user everthing depends on individual needs.

tzalmagor

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2011, 11:20:40 AM »
Sorry, should have been clearer. I was referring to camera manufacturers. I agree for the user everthing depends on individual needs.

Canon offers four resolutions - 21MP, 18MP, 16MP (1Dmk4, too expensive for me), and 12MP (1100D).

Which is why I'm keeping an open eye on the Nikon D700 replacement.

Thomas McConnell

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2011, 04:49:00 AM »
I think there are so many software those can handle raw video, but most of them requires money.

Thomas McConnell

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2011, 07:07:32 PM »
This is from Russell James' (Victoria Secret Photographer) assistant Alex in response to a fan's questions about the difference between the 1Ds II and III.

"Raymond- there is a huge difference. The image quality is much better, high resolution, better ISO, but if you think about getting a new one wait a little bit, the new one is on the way "

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2011, 07:07:32 PM »

dr croubie

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2011, 07:17:18 PM »
I think there are so many software those can handle raw video, but most of them requires money.

and if you can afford a $3000-$10000 camera, and actually need the quality of raw video because you're a pro actually making movies, then you can afford to shell out $a few hundred for editing software.
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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2011, 08:20:28 PM »
I think there are so many software those can handle raw video, but most of them requires money.


and if you can afford a $3000-$10000 camera, and actually need the quality of raw video because you're a pro actually making movies, then you can afford to shell out $a few hundred for editing software.


$3,000 - $10,000 is nothing compared to the software used to process HDDSLR video for movies.  Its mostly done by specislty houses, no one really buys software to process video for a motion picture, its custom software.

The Red Epics that Peter Jackson is using to film "The Hobbit are said to run $58,000 ea as equiped for filming, and there are thirty of them.  Processing not included.

http://www.geek.com/articles/gadgets/peter-jacksons-hobbit-films-to-be-made-on-30-red-epic-cameras-20101129/

The movie business is not about $3,000 or $10,000 cameras and a few hundred dollars worth of software.

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Re: 1Ds Replacement Soon?
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2011, 08:20:28 PM »