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Author Topic: D800 not so great afterall...it has its shortcomings too  (Read 11496 times)

dilbert

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Re: D800 not so great afterall...it has its shortcomings too
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2012, 08:17:19 AM »
If they are not even designed to handle the same use cases, comparing the price points is meaningless and people are only doing it because they just happened to be released in about the same timeframe.

Imho "completely different usage scenarios" way of describing the 5d2 & d800 has only popped up because Canon people were desperate to save their favorite brand's newest baby's reputation. Both cameras might have different strong points and professionals will try to exploit them to gain an advantage over the competition. But for the rest of us they are certainly both complete dlsrs designed to be able to handle most situations - so any attempt to compare them seems perfectly valid to me.

5D2 and the d800 are valid comparisons as you say. Makes Nikon look like a money grabbing company to charge $1000 extra for a few mps and a little DR

D800 has 70% more megapixels than the 5D2.
D800 has 467% more focus points than the 5D2.
So a 36% price increase seems more than justified.

Only if you need them - ask the wedding togs if it is worth the extortionate Nikon price with the 100% increase in memory cards, pp time etc. We know what they will say about the poor low light performance of the D800.

Is that like how wedding photographers only need the 12MP of the Nikon D700?

When Canon are no longer selling a full frame camera with less than 30MP, will wedding photographers still be crying for fewer MP?

High mps is not the top priority I would suggest - but low light performance is for most. Like everything else enough is suficient - how many wedding togs produce huge prints? - 21mp is ideal for A3 print size.

5D2 is still THE wedding camera rather than the more expensive D700 with its inferior specs

But didn't that really cool/famous English wedding photographer ditch the 5D2 in favour of the D700 for low-light performance?

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Re: D800 not so great afterall...it has its shortcomings too
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2012, 08:17:19 AM »

Neeneko

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Re: D800 not so great afterall...it has its shortcomings too
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2012, 09:43:38 AM »
You're right, these camera are in completely differnet markets just like sports cars and SUVs.  Canon evidently decided that they didn't want the business of the landscape/studio photographers that bought the 5D MkII, so they sat down and designed a camera to deliberately exclude them.  Nikon though, "screw all the chumps that bought the D700, what we need to do is to design a camera that they'll hate and try to pursue a completely different segment of the market". 

Why must you take such an extreme, black and white view of it?

Design is a process of compromise.  You don't go in saying 'let us screw these people, they do not matter', but you do prioritize based off which groups your marketing department feels are the best ones to target.  And yes, that means if you are building an upgrade you look at the current user base of the existing model which, if it is popular among certain groups you put more weight on the needs of those groups, even if there are other groups that also buy cameras in the same price range.

Quote
Either that, or they sat down and thought "what would sell an upgraded camera to current owners best?".  I wonder...

*headdesk* it is the same expletive thing.  See, there you go.... there are current users, they make up certain subgroups of the entire market segment.  There are other users that are interested in cameras in the same price range but do not use the current version.  It is your assertion about all users in the same price bracket being the same group that I have been arguing.

Which is why I originally was pointing out that comparing them is not productive because they were designed for different users, and the main reason people have been comparing them is that they came out about the same time at about the same price point.... and you came in saying that because they were around the same price they were for the same market segment.

psolberg

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Re: D800 not so great afterall...it has its shortcomings too
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2012, 11:35:30 AM »
You're right, these camera are in completely differnet markets just like sports cars and SUVs.  Canon evidently decided that they didn't want the business of the landscape/studio photographers that bought the 5D MkII, so they sat down and designed a camera to deliberately exclude them.  Nikon though, "screw all the chumps that bought the D700, what we need to do is to design a camera that they'll hate and try to pursue a completely different segment of the market". 

Why must you take such an extreme, black and white view of it?

Design is a process of compromise.  You don't go in saying 'let us screw these people, they do not matter', but you do prioritize based off which groups your marketing department feels are the best ones to target.  And yes, that means if you are building an upgrade you look at the current user base of the existing model which, if it is popular among certain groups you put more weight on the needs of those groups, even if there are other groups that also buy cameras in the same price range.

Quote
Either that, or they sat down and thought "what would sell an upgraded camera to current owners best?".  I wonder...

*headdesk* it is the same expletive thing.  See, there you go.... there are current users, they make up certain subgroups of the entire market segment.  There are other users that are interested in cameras in the same price range but do not use the current version.  It is your assertion about all users in the same price bracket being the same group that I have been arguing.

Which is why I originally was pointing out that comparing them is not productive because they were designed for different users, and the main reason people have been comparing them is that they came out about the same time at about the same price point.... and you came in saying that because they were around the same price they were for the same market segment.

you're totally right. comparing these two bodies is downright pointless. Unlike the majority of the folks here who get their opinions from rumor sites and buddies of buddies, I've actually shot the D800. It is a different tool to the 5DMkIII and if you're the audience for the D800, then there is nothing else that even comes close for that price. If I shot sports and actions, I'd never pick a D800. Heck I'd likely even skip the 5DmkIII and head to the 1DX (assuming it ever ships  ;D)

You guys all need to relax and laugh a little. Watch part II of the D800 vs 5DmkIII and watch a D800 get shot (literally)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j2_RyKKk_Xc#


sleepnever

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Re: D800 not so great afterall...it has its shortcomings too
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2012, 11:54:15 AM »
Hahahah that was hilarious. One of the better review videos I've ever seen.
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Neeneko

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Re: D800 not so great afterall...it has its shortcomings too
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2012, 12:15:05 PM »
Heh, that was a pretty good review.

Though it makes me wonder what the UV and IR performance of the two bodies are now.  If I recall correctly the 5D2 is considered the king of IR right now, while the NEX-5 has the best UV performance... but so few people shoot with the later getting comparative reviews is difficult (they rarely test Canon at all).

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Re: D800 not so great afterall...it has its shortcomings too
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2012, 12:15:05 PM »