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Author Topic: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications  (Read 35520 times)

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2012, 11:37:17 AM »
Based on the video it does seem to be a new sensor, but is it merely a hybrid over the old sensor or a completely re-build form ground up sensor...  I just got a little interested in the 650 if thats the case...
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2012, 11:37:17 AM »

dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2012, 11:37:49 AM »
as far as "newly developed" that is certainly true from the standpoint of phase detection AF.  what is astonishingly missing from these communication is any notion of a new technology cycle bringing new advances in ISO performance.

this "new" sensor to me sounds like the same, tired old 18MP sensor re-fabbed to accomodate the new AF capabilities without any real new technology cycle in terms of ISO performance. 

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #92 on: June 08, 2012, 11:38:45 AM »
as far as "newly developed" that is certainly true from the standpoint of phase detection AF.  what is astonishingly missing from these communication is any notion of a new technology cycle bringing new advances in ISO performance.

this "new" sensor to me sounds like the same, tired old 18MP sensor re-fabbed to accomodate the new AF capabilities without any real new technology cycle in terms of ISO performance.

I fear the same...  :(
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2012, 11:43:21 AM »
I found a video preview of the 650d and on guy is obwiously from Canon and is saying the sensor is new deweloped.

Yes, but what extactly does that mean?  The 18-55mm MkII kit lens was billed as new solely because of new IS algorithms (and some coemetic changes), but the optics are identical to the original.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Canon in effect 'bolted on' the phase detection components onto the existing 18 MP sensor.  There was a suggestion in one review that, "Although Canon UK was unable to tell us how many pixels are used for phase detection AF, or how they are arranged, we're told that these pixels aren't on exactly the same plane as the imaging pixels.

If true, that suggests that from an image capture standpoint, the 'new' sensor is no different from the one found in the T2i/550D, T3i/600D, 60D, and 7D.
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #94 on: June 08, 2012, 11:43:58 AM »
It IS a NEW sensor.  Canon reports it consumes less power than the old 18MP sensor (not to mention the hybrid AF).  It is NEW.

"The same number of pixels in the EOS Kiss X5, has developed a new image quality and also to enhance performance. Support high-speed readout of 5 fps / up to about, and has realized the imaging plane phase difference AF (hybrid CMOS AF), and further power saving."

By NEW do you all mistakenly mean DIFFERENT?

Besides, Digic 5 is VASTLY more important than pixel count, vastly.

As an aside, am I the only one who knows Canon is a Japanese company and Google has a translation service?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 11:49:59 AM by Halocastle »

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #95 on: June 08, 2012, 11:49:36 AM »
I found a video preview of the 650d and on guy is obwiously from Canon and is saying the sensor is new deweloped.

Yes, but what extactly does that mean?  The 18-55mm MkII kit lens was billed as new solely because of new IS algorithms (and some coemetic changes), but the optics are identical to the original.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Canon in effect 'bolted on' the phase detection components onto the existing 18 MP sensor.  There was a suggestion in one review that, "Although Canon UK was unable to tell us how many pixels are used for phase detection AF, or how they are arranged, we're told that these pixels aren't on exactly the same plane as the imaging pixels.

If true, that suggests that from an image capture standpoint, the 'new' sensor is no different from the one found in the T2i/550D, T3i/600D, 60D, and 7D.

I am curious, how can they build (layer) a phase detection sensor over an existing image sensor without causing filtering effects on the actual image (unless they use some algorithm to actively fill in those empty/ light blocked spots) .... the other method would be the Sony way of adding a transluscent layer, but again this would cause light loss... anyone of physical picture so of the new sensor itself?
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2012, 12:05:32 PM »
I found a video preview of the 650d and on guy is obwiously from Canon and is saying the sensor is new deweloped.

Yes, but what extactly does that mean?  The 18-55mm MkII kit lens was billed as new solely because of new IS algorithms (and some coemetic changes), but the optics are identical to the original.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Canon in effect 'bolted on' the phase detection components onto the existing 18 MP sensor.  There was a suggestion in one review that, "Although Canon UK was unable to tell us how many pixels are used for phase detection AF, or how they are arranged, we're told that these pixels aren't on exactly the same plane as the imaging pixels.

If true, that suggests that from an image capture standpoint, the 'new' sensor is no different from the one found in the T2i/550D, T3i/600D, 60D, and 7D.

I am curious, how can they build (layer) a phase detection sensor over an existing image sensor without causing filtering effects on the actual image (unless they use some algorithm to actively fill in those empty/ light blocked spots) .... the other method would be the Sony way of adding a transluscent layer, but again this would cause light loss... anyone of physical picture so of the new sensor itself?

I dont know if this is the real deal http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i/3
The sensor picture could be just simbolik

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2012, 12:05:32 PM »

dlleno

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #97 on: June 08, 2012, 12:06:30 PM »
It IS a NEW sensor.  Canon reports it consumes less power than the old 18MP sensor (not to mention the hybrid AF).  It is NEW.

"The same number of pixels in the EOS Kiss X5, has developed a new image quality and also to enhance performance. Support high-speed readout of 5 fps / up to about, and has realized the imaging plane phase difference AF (hybrid CMOS AF), and further power saving."


Well, the above could be describing the camera itself as having new image quality and further power saving, both of which can be acheived with Digic 5.  imho, without a pre-concieved conclusion here,  the  English gramatical structure produced by google translate cannot be trusted to provide direct evidence  that we have a new technology cycle of the sensor itself, bringing new levels of ISO performance.  Lets hope for the best, but lets not start doing the  hokey pokey until we have real performance data
Quote

By NEW do you all mistakenly mean DIFFERENT?

Besides, Digic 5 is VASTLY more important than pixel count, vastly.

no one will argue that.  Digic 5 on top of the old, tired 18mp sensor currently used in the 7D will provide better IQ.  Again, what is conspicuously missing from these  communications is a direct statement indicating a new technology life cycle with regards to the ISO performance of the sensor itself.   Most of us want what you have concluded has already happened -- no increase in MP with a improvment in ISO and IQ of the sensor itself.  I'm just withholding judgement until I see better evidence.


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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #98 on: June 08, 2012, 12:09:15 PM »
It IS a NEW sensor.  Canon reports it consumes less power than the old 18MP sensor (not to mention the hybrid AF).  It is NEW.

"The same number of pixels in the EOS Kiss X5, has developed a new image quality and also to enhance performance. Support high-speed readout of 5 fps / up to about, and has realized the imaging plane phase difference AF (hybrid CMOS AF), and further power saving."

I don't think there's doubt that it's 'new' but rather whether there is any actual difference in the aspects of the sensor which record the captured image.  Similar to my reference above, the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II is clearly a new lens relative to the original, but it's optically identical, meaning from an image forming standpoint, new ≠ different/better.

You have to be careful reading Canon's marketing materials when they use words like 'new image quality' (especially when it's a Google translation - recall that the original translation of the spec list had the 650D with a pentaprism, when it's a pentamirror like all the other Rebels).  Canon throws out terms like 'two full stops better' without specifying that it's almost all in the RAW conversion.

The changes you describe could easily have nothing to do with RAW image IQ.

Besides, Digic 5 is VASTLY more important than pixel count, vastly.

Vastly important IF you shoot in jpg, yes.  If you shoot in RAW, then Digic 5 is relatively unimportant as it relates to image quality.

I am curious, how can they build (layer) a phase detection sensor over an existing image sensor without causing filtering effects on the actual image (unless they use some algorithm to actively fill in those empty/ light blocked spots)

Even with 'gapless microlenses' there are spaces between photosites, which are at the back of the sensor in any case.  PDAF sensors are line sensors that can be made pretty thin.



Also, as you state, they could easily interpolate around those small areas - consider the semi-automatic remapping of dead/hot pixels when you manually clean the sensor.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 12:12:25 PM by neuroanatomist »
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #99 on: June 08, 2012, 03:04:22 PM »
Besides, Digic 5 is VASTLY more important than pixel count, vastly.

In additions to the good replies above, I have to say I'm at a complete loss how people can think the cpu is the most important part of a dslr when it's mainly shoving pixel data from a (sensor) to b (card). Sure it can do in-camera jpeg what you could only do in postprocessing before (nr, ca correction), it might save some power and for video noise reduction it's certainly important, but that's about it.

If someone offered you two computers, one with windows 8, 256mb of ram, on-board gpu and a core i7, the other with windows 7 (magic lantern!), 4gb ram, dedicated gpu card and w/ a core i5 - which would you take?

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #100 on: June 08, 2012, 03:06:30 PM »
If someone offered you two computers, one with windows 8, 256mb of ram, on-board gpu and a core i7, the other with windows 7 (magic lantern!), 4gb ram, dedicated gpu card and w/ a core i5 - which would you take?

I'd take the Mac.  Wait, did I just suggest that I'd switch to Nikon?!?   :o
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #101 on: June 08, 2012, 03:28:34 PM »
after searching 650D review, every article I've found says NEW Sensor, but they must be considering it new since it includes the phase detection AF.

I just looked at the ISO-series of samples on DPreview.

The 650D definitely has a brand new sensor ... with the exact same performance as the one on the 600D, 60D, and 7D.

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #102 on: June 08, 2012, 03:29:58 PM »
If someone offered you two computers, one with windows 8, 256mb of ram, on-board gpu and a core i7, the other with windows 7 (magic lantern!), 4gb ram, dedicated gpu card and w/ a core i5 - which would you take?

I'd take the Mac.  Wait, did I just suggest that I'd switch to Nikon?!?   :o

mac...lol...btw both 256mb and 4gb have insufficient ram for running ligthroom.

having a very good autofocus on camera for videos would turn out to be a big plus...just wait a little more
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #102 on: June 08, 2012, 03:29:58 PM »

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #103 on: June 08, 2012, 03:46:25 PM »
mac...lol...btw both 256mb and 4gb have insufficient ram for running ligthroom.

Not my experience, it runs on my 4gb laptop just fine - but as a single application, so it can use almost all of the ram.

The 650D definitely has a brand new sensor ... with the exact same performance as the one on the 600D, 60D, and 7D.

:-) ... and 550d, which is now really a bargain because it runs magic lantern, too!

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #104 on: June 08, 2012, 03:58:29 PM »
1) yap...some days ago i saw lightroom taking 2.9gb on my Windows 8 laptop...so i upgraded to 8gb...as the people shooting videos would upgrade to 650D if the new autofocus in live view mode would turn out a useful features even without ml
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i/650D Full Specifications
« Reply #104 on: June 08, 2012, 03:58:29 PM »