Used 60D or new 650D/T4i?

[PictoPete]

If you get 60d body thru CLP and the 15-85/vari lens then you end up paying..
$640 for body
$512 for lens

So far $1152 + tax where applicable.
You can snag a 430EXII speedlite for $192 as well. $1254

That lens above is really all you'll need for anything, assuming a general walk-around lens. It gets great marks across the board on all the lens reviews. The flash isn't the highest-end one, but it will DEFINITELY give you lighting options where you were previously limited.

The only gotcha with the CLP discount is that you can only get lens and flash discounts if you order with a body.

Fret not about them being REFURBISHED. Some are returns. Some are overstock. Some are (barely-used) open-stock. The point is, I have no problem trusting CANON the camera-maker of this very hardware to assure that it is up to specification like a new product. So they clean everything and replace anything necessary to get it up to running as a new item would. They offer the 90-day warranty vs 1 year not as a lack of confidence but simply because it's the minimum required by law and also to give incentive to buy their NEW-listed product at the higher price if you demand the full year. The cameras look new in appearance and their packaging is the same save for a generic Canon box.

You will not be disappointed getting a refurb unit from Canon.

--

Magic Lantern for Canon dSLRs is amazing. Even if you aren't pushing cinematography as a hobby, it will give you options for when you do want to exploit video and photo even. You have nothing to lose.

[locke42]

I've decided to get the 60D. The NEX-7, I've learned, can't do some of the types of photography that I had intended on learning, i.e. long exposure and time lapse. Plus, the lens selection sucked. I hadn't realized how much it sucked until I tried looking for alternatives to its kit lens.

I already know how to use a DSLR in full manual mode, especially the 60D because my cousin got one a few months ago (a waste, IMO; he's the kind of person who doesn't have the patience to learn the manual controls, and every time I've seen him use it I cringe because it's always in automatic). I always used my old SX10 IS in full manual mode, and even with the NEX-7, when I looked at it in the store, one of the biggest draws for me was the fact that, in some ways, it offered even finer manual control and more feedback information than the 60D did (the triple dials make it really easy to change exposure settings in full manual mode, and its buttons are very customizable).

So, anyway, 60D it is.

[PictoPete]

Awesome choice. Magic Lantern firmware for 60D has a built-in intervalometer function, making time-lapse more convenient should you need it.

[locke42]

If you get 60d body thru CLP and the 15-85/vari lens then you end up paying..
$640 for body
$512 for lens

So far $1152 + tax where applicable.
You can snag a 430EXII speedlite for $192 as well. $1254

That lens above is really all you'll need for anything, assuming a general walk-around lens. It gets great marks across the board on all the lens reviews. The flash isn't the highest-end one, but it will DEFINITELY give you lighting options where you were previously limited.

The only gotcha with the CLP discount is that you can only get lens and flash discounts if you order with a body.

Fret not about them being REFURBISHED. Some are returns. Some are overstock. Some are (barely-used) open-stock. The point is, I have no problem trusting CANON the camera-maker of this very hardware to assure that it is up to specification like a new product. So they clean everything and replace anything necessary to get it up to running as a new item would. They offer the 90-day warranty vs 1 year not as a lack of confidence but simply because it's the minimum required by law and also to give incentive to buy their NEW-listed product at the higher price if you demand the full year. The cameras look new in appearance and their packaging is the same save for a generic Canon box.

You will not be disappointed getting a refurb unit from Canon.

How does the CLP work? Do I get the same discount regardless of what existing Canon I have? And does it really matter if my camera is broken or not? (My SX10 is in working order, albeit rather beat up and its lens is a bit scratched.)

I was just going to go back to the camera store tomorrow to pick it and the lens up, but if I save that much money off a refurb, then it's definitely a consideration.

[PictoPete]

Read the OVERCLOCK.NET thread in detail first, but
To sum it up..
Call Canon up using the provided number then tell them you would like to go for the loyalty program. Describe them your existing camera model and problem. Then, select your choice of body, lens, etc for an SLR. Canon will then provide you the extra discount and charge it to a card and then ship. You will have to send your old camera in using a prepaid mailer sheet they email you. MAKE SURE THEY EMAIL YOU THE MAILER SHEET. There's also an express shipping option if the standard free ship isn't enough.

That's it in a nutshell, but do read the overclock.net thread first post from start to finish.

[scrappydog]

How does the CLP work? Do I get the same discount regardless of what existing Canon I have? And does it really matter if my camera is broken or not? (My SX10 is in working order, albeit rather beat up and its lens is a bit scratched.)

I was just going to go back to the camera store tomorrow to pick it and the lens up, but if I save that much money off a refurb, then it's definitely a consideration.

The CLP works by calling Canon sales (800-828-4040) and telling them that you would like to buy a camera under the CLP.  They will ask you which camera that you have that is not working, and they will ask you what is wrong with it.  I'm not sure the "scratched lens" will be sufficient for them.  If they have the camera that you want, you can buy it for 20% off of the refurbished price, they will tack on state tax (in the USA), and free shipping.  So, for example, I just bought a 5D Mark II for $1,491 USD.  You can bundle lenses with the deal, but they limit the lenses to those that are kit lenses (I think), and you must buy the lens along with the camera.  For example, the 60D is sometimes sold as a kit with the 18-135, so you could buy the 18-135 at 20% off the refurbished price for the lens.  What I do not know is whether they would sell you the 60D plus a 24-105, which is a kit lens to the 5D series, but is not a kit lens for the 60D.  Anyway, call them to find out the skinny.

[locke42]

If the 15-85mm isn't actually included in the deal, then I "only" save about $150 or so (the discount off the body), which is only a 10% discount off the body and lens that I want. I save even less, if I have to buy a broken camera off eBay to send to them. And the savings disappear almost totally if I buy from Amazon since they don't charge sales tax or shipping. (I won't; there's a camera store here that I'd rather support with my business, but I'm just pointing it out. )

I think I'll just use my SX10 for the CLP if I decide to move up to a full frame.

[scrappydog]

I think I'll just use my SX10 for the CLP if I decide to move up to a full frame.

That's exactly what I did.  Better savings overall. 

[locke42]

Trigger pulled!

I was originally just going to get the 60D with the 15-85mm USM and the 50mm f/1.8, but the sales guy at Samy's gave me a break on the taxes, so I bumped up to the 50mm f/1.4 USM.

Still.... my wallet's hurting!

[Marsu42]

Still.... my wallet's hurting!

Your wallet can only hurt if there's still something left in there - believe me, that'll change :-o ... the first thing I got after my 60d & first lenses was a 430ex2 flash for remote flash & high speed sync.

[scrappydog]

Trigger pulled!...Still.... my wallet's hurting!

Congratulations!  Just wait until you buy your first L lens - your wallet will pain again and again as you buy more and more.

[Marsu42]

Just wait until you buy your first L lens

Just wanted to mention it: There are other excellent lenses out there that create stunning images except for Canon "L", and older Canon L or even the current 17-40 aren't that stellar. I've got Canon lenses that don't have a comparable 3rd party alternative (100L, 70-300L), but others have like the Tokina 11-16, Sigma 50/1.4 and 85/1.4, Tamron 24-70/2.8 ... the only issue with your and my 60d is that it doesn't have af micro adjustment, so you have to get a lens that fits your body right from the shelf.

[SambalOelek]

Just wanted to mention it: There are other excellent lenses out there that create stunning images except for Canon "L", and older Canon L or even the current 17-40 aren't that stellar. I've got Canon lenses that don't have a comparable 3rd party alternative (100L, 70-300L) (...)

In all fairness, the Sigma 105mm f/2.8 OS HSM is comparable to the 100 L, and on par mechanically and IQ-wise. It has a metal body, the 100 L is a bit on the plasticky side in my opinion. The 100 f/2.8 non-L is also at least on par IQ-wise (except the L's bokeh, which is great).

[Marsu42]

In all fairness, the Sigma 105mm f/2.8 OS HSM is comparable to the 100 L, and on par mechanically and IQ-wise. It has a metal body, the 100 L is a bit on the plasticky side in my opinion. The 100 f/2.8 non-L is also at least on par IQ-wise (except the L's bokeh, which is great).

Ok, I didn't make myself clear enough: I'd only recommend/get 3rd party lenses if there is a significant price or iq difference to Canon, because you'll run into less difficulties with the latter and it's valid for cps.

I had the 100 non-L macro and only switched it because the L has better sealing and is dual-usable as a portrait lens with IS and sharp f2.8 - I don't have a 70-200/2.8. I am frequently recommending the non-L for macro work, excellent lens.

At the same time, I'm always commenting on the 100L plastic fantastic build, but the iq and IS is stellar. I don't know much about the Sigma, but for currently 75€ more (Canon currently has a 70€ rebate) I'd take the Canon any day.

[absolutic]

Okay, now I'm VERY torn. Just as I was all set to get the 60D, too.

I just played around with a Sony NEX-7, and that thing was sweet. And a hell of a lot lighter than the 60D. More expensive, but still around my price range. Image quality seems to be on par, based on DPReview. The NEX-7 has better noise reduction for JPEGs, but the 60D seems to be a tad better in RAWs.

Sony NEX is excellent as a companion to one's main camera.   I have Sony Nex 5n which is better in low light than Sony Nex 7, and half the price, but Sony Nex 7 is a nice choice too, on ergonomics and quality and dynamic range at low ISOs.       I bring my Sony Nex 5n at night/when going out/ when I don't feel like bringing my DSLR with me.   I need not worry about the noise, as it shares 16MP sensor with Nikon D7000 and Pentax K5 and Sony A models from last year, but has a weaker anti-aliasing filter, so has even better quality (check it out on DXO site). Nex 5n also has touch screen with touch screen auto focus, which Nex 7 is missing.   You can spend the $650 you saving on lenses


Re: CLP:  while getting 5DM2 for $1400+tax from CLP is a good deal in comparion which what you get on used market (Fred Miranda/POTN/Craigslist),   getting 7D for almost $1100+tax is not a good deal, as you can get a mint used one for $1000 from all of the above forums, sometimes with extra goodies (like batteries etc).  In my opinion, if you want 7D, go get used.  They are all built like tanks these days and it is hard to find a bad one.ß