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Author Topic: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...  (Read 15944 times)

clicstudio

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Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« on: June 08, 2012, 10:49:06 AM »
My very first Canon was a 10D with a grip in 2002... But I've been using exclusively 1D's since 2003.
And I couldn't go back to anything less...
My friend has a 5D. I love the quality but found the camera to be too small without a grip. He just received the BG-11E grip. After playing with it for a while I found the position of the buttons to be too uncomfortable and the ergonomics badly designed.
At first, you notice how flat the bottom of the grip is, it doesn't hug your hand, it is rough. The AF ON, * and grid buttons are too high and the joystick is too low. Keeping your index finger on the shutter and moving the joystick is very uncomfortable, the joystick is too low and you need to spread your fingers too much, therefore losing grip on the camera... Very bad.
Using the camera on landscape mode, you realize the vertical version is totally off. In landscape, your thumb rests properly on a rubberized groove and the joystick is in the right position. The joystick is 1/2" inch lower on the grip compared to the camera. Meaning you have to "search" for it with your thumb to find it. It seems like a problem getting used to the different layout while shooting fast and switching from landscape to portrait... My friend is already aggravated and disappointed... I would be too...
Here is a layout comparison between a 1D X and a 5D III... The 5D is red, 1D is green.
Notice the thumb grooves and how low and awkward the  5D joystick is.
People think the 1D's are not worth the extra money... Hey, u get a 5D and get Digic 5, the same FF sensor, u get 4 extra MP, a BG-11E and still pay $3000 less than a 1D X... Well, u get what u pay for... A limited camera with bad ergonomics...  :o
I can't wait for my new 1D X....


Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

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Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« on: June 08, 2012, 10:49:06 AM »

smithy

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 11:38:32 AM »
I think it's going too far to say that the 5D has "bad ergonomics".  I find it immensely comfortable to use, with the only 'why did they do that' button placement being the playback zoom buttons.  Yes, perhaps the 1Ds have better ergonomics - and I certainly prefer the integrated grip look rather than the 'bolt-on' type - but mostly it seems like you have particular preferences that are determined by the size of your hands or simply habit.
5D Mark III, 40D, 1V.  Bunch of strobes, lenses and other bits.
They're, their, there, it's, its, too, to, than, then, you're, your.  One lens, two lenses, the lens's aperture.

Dylan777

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 11:38:36 AM »
Number 1 reason I don't buy 1D is....I CAN'T AFFORD IT  ;D
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bornshooter

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 11:47:07 AM »
to say the 5d mk3 has bad ergonomics is absolute rubbish,now the d800 on the other hand...

Lee Jay

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2012, 12:05:05 PM »
On of the main reasons I never bought a 1D is ergonomics.  The grips are too big for my hands, and the inability to remove the portrait grip for the 95% of the time I don't need it means I'm holding it and carrying it for no reason all that time.

westr70

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2012, 12:13:24 PM »
I think it's going too far to say that the 5D has "bad ergonomics".  I find it immensely comfortable to use, with the only 'why did they do that' button placement being the playback zoom buttons.  Yes, perhaps the 1Ds have better ergonomics - and I certainly prefer the integrated grip look rather than the 'bolt-on' type - but mostly it seems like you have particular preferences that are determined by the size of your hands or simply habit.

I agree with Smithy.  You've been using the ID for how many years and you say it's better than a camera that you've used for how long?  Oh, that's right "playing with it for a while" and you decided to share your wisdom.  My apologies for my sarcasm.
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clicstudio

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 12:48:01 PM »
I think it's going too far to say that the 5D has "bad ergonomics".  I find it immensely comfortable to use, with the only 'why did they do that' button placement being the playback zoom buttons.  Yes, perhaps the 1Ds have better ergonomics - and I certainly prefer the integrated grip look rather than the 'bolt-on' type - but mostly it seems like you have particular preferences that are determined by the size of your hands or simply habit.
No, I am not going too far. I am a professional photographer and I expect something professional or at least pro-sumer like a 5D to be better...
There is always a pyramid of quality in most products. Be it cameras, electronics, cars, etc...
The 1D's are the flagships. I can't expect a $3500 camera to look and feel as one that costs double but at least, the designers should take the time to position the buttons correctly. It doesn't cost them anything.
There are plenty of design flaws in most products in the market. I am not saying the 5D is a bad camera, just saying it has flaws that I can touch and feel as a professional photographer who, maybe, is used to expecting more...
It seems all of you 5D users fail to see the reality and can't accept the truth.
I rented a 5D III for a whole week without a grip to see if I liked it. I was extremely happy with the quality of the camera... Build, photo quality, noise levels, focusing speed, screen... The best camera in the market so far, but this grip is just not right... It took me 5 seconds to realize there is something wrong with it. 
I am just sharing my opinion as a 12 year professional...
If you guys don't want to see it, it's not my problem cause I will never own a 5D III...
Cheers

P
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 12:48:01 PM »

clicstudio

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 12:53:35 PM »
I agree with Smithy.  You've been using the ID for how many years and you say it's better than a camera that you've used for how long?  Oh, that's right "playing with it for a while" and you decided to share your wisdom.  My apologies for my sarcasm.

I am not judging the camera, just the grip. The camera is by far the best on the market, for now, but the ergonomics are part of the daily use. If you shot 1000 photos a day, like I do, you would understand. Amateurs won't see it anyway...
My apologies for my sarcasm...
Canon 1D X, Canon 24-70 F2.8L II,  Canon SpeedLite 600 EX-RT, 5x Paul C. Buff Einstein Flashes with Pocket Wizard PowerMC2's, Pocket Wizard Mini-TT1, Pocket Wizard AC3.

adamdoesmovies

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2012, 01:39:12 PM »
I agree with Smithy.  You've been using the ID for how many years and you say it's better than a camera that you've used for how long?  Oh, that's right "playing with it for a while" and you decided to share your wisdom.  My apologies for my sarcasm.

I am not judging the camera, just the grip. The camera is by far the best on the market, for now, but the ergonomics are part of the daily use. If you shot 1000 photos a day, like I do, you would understand. Amateurs won't see it anyway...
My apologies for my sarcasm...

Doing sports/action based photography, I can't see how anyone could manage to lug around a huge 1-series plus its lens all day without having serious back problems. I gave up the 1DII for the 7D, never looked back... The grip comes in handy sometimes, but usually it just makes the damn thing too big. 

That said, I enjoyed the 1 series - I've even shot some stuff on the 1DmkIV (mostly video). Obviously the image quality has the potential to be greater than any other body... but frankly I think it's more about what you've gotten used to, and what you need for the particular job you have. While the 1DmkII was every bit as fast as my 7D, better build quality, image quality, and crop factor - I was never able to shoot the whole day running around with it unless I wanted to experience extreme pain for the next several days. 6 hours and 4200 images into a tennis tournament with a 1D/70-200IS 2.8 around your neck? Screw the chiropractor, you'll need an orthopedic surgeon to correct that.

Lee Jay

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2012, 01:39:37 PM »
I agree with Smithy.  You've been using the ID for how many years and you say it's better than a camera that you've used for how long?  Oh, that's right "playing with it for a while" and you decided to share your wisdom.  My apologies for my sarcasm.

I am not judging the camera, just the grip. The camera is by far the best on the market, for now, but the ergonomics are part of the daily use. If you shot 1000 photos a day, like I do, you would understand. Amateurs won't see it anyway...
My apologies for my sarcasm...

I regularly shoot 2,000-4,000 shots in a single day, and find the 1D series to have poor ergonomics, while my 5D fits my hand like it was made just for me.

traveller

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2012, 01:53:48 PM »
I think it's going too far to say that the 5D has "bad ergonomics".  I find it immensely comfortable to use, with the only 'why did they do that' button placement being the playback zoom buttons.  Yes, perhaps the 1Ds have better ergonomics - and I certainly prefer the integrated grip look rather than the 'bolt-on' type - but mostly it seems like you have particular preferences that are determined by the size of your hands or simply habit.
No, I am not going too far. I am a professional photographer and I expect something professional or at least pro-sumer like a 5D to be better...
There is always a pyramid of quality in most products. Be it cameras, electronics, cars, etc...
The 1D's are the flagships. I can't expect a $3500 camera to look and feel as one that costs double but at least, the designers should take the time to position the buttons correctly. It doesn't cost them anything.
There are plenty of design flaws in most products in the market. I am not saying the 5D is a bad camera, just saying it has flaws that I can touch and feel as a professional photographer who, maybe, is used to expecting more...
It seems all of you 5D users fail to see the reality and can't accept the truth.
I rented a 5D III for a whole week without a grip to see if I liked it. I was extremely happy with the quality of the camera... Build, photo quality, noise levels, focusing speed, screen... The best camera in the market so far, but this grip is just not right... It took me 5 seconds to realize there is something wrong with it. 
I am just sharing my opinion as a 12 year professional...
If you guys don't want to see it, it's not my problem cause I will never own a 5D III...
Cheers

P

You're trying to make it sound like you wrote your initial post to assist everyone, but I'm afraid that your tone made it come across like you were gloating at everyone who can't afford a 1D X...  Rather than act defensive now, I'd suggest that you are a little bit more careful not to cause unnecessary offence in future.  I would have thought that having to make your living as a photographer for the past twelve years would have made you a little bit more diplomatic. 


Razor2012

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2012, 02:31:46 PM »
to say the 5d mk3 has bad ergonomics is absolute rubbish,now the d800 on the other hand...

I picked up a 800 at the trade show and I personally didn't like it that much.  I don't know if it's the ergonomics or just the way it felt in my hands but definately not contoured like a Canon.  It's like comparing a Xbox controller to a PS3 controller...I prefer the 360.
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Razor2012

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2012, 02:34:27 PM »
I agree with Smithy.  You've been using the ID for how many years and you say it's better than a camera that you've used for how long?  Oh, that's right "playing with it for a while" and you decided to share your wisdom.  My apologies for my sarcasm.

I am not judging the camera, just the grip. The camera is by far the best on the market, for now, but the ergonomics are part of the daily use. If you shot 1000 photos a day, like I do, you would understand. Amateurs won't see it anyway...
My apologies for my sarcasm...

I regularly shoot 2,000-4,000 shots in a single day, and find the 1D series to have poor ergonomics, while my 5D fits my hand like it was made just for me.

Exactly, personal preference.  Just because it's 'top-of-the-line' doesn't mean it's right for everyone.
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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2012, 02:34:27 PM »

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2012, 03:32:21 PM »
Funny post, because the reason I buy 5D over 1D series is the fact that it doesn't have a grip.  Oh and my 5D III is the most comfortable camera I've user used.  If only they would have moved the delete button over to the right side... (I just use "Set" instead of magnify)

I shoot on hiking trips and outdoor events when you have to walk significant distances.  The smaller and lighter the camera is = the better.  If I could have the same IQ from a small and light point and shoot, I wouldn't even bother with a DSLR. 

Neeneko

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2012, 03:33:22 PM »
I picked up a 800 at the trade show and I personally didn't like it that much.  I don't know if it's the ergonomics or just the way it felt in my hands but definately not contoured like a Canon.  It's like comparing a Xbox controller to a PS3 controller...I prefer the 360.

That is actually a good comparison.
While there are some generalities to ergonomics, they are not universal, and are heavily tied to familiarity.  If you pick up something that has as a similar form factor to something you have a lot of muscle memory invested in it will feel off.

This is not to say that all complaints about ergonomics are just 'but it is new!', but it is an element that is important to account for.

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Re: Ergonomics... Why you pay more for a 1D...
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2012, 03:33:22 PM »