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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon  (Read 47706 times)

RLPhoto

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #75 on: June 08, 2012, 10:50:45 PM »
They are going to introduce a 7D2...could also suggest that it may be APS-H...

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Neuro, what's so bad about aps-H? It fits in the lineup perfectly.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #75 on: June 08, 2012, 10:50:45 PM »

Gcon

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2012, 11:01:54 PM »
Now i'm guessing a 70D is coming this fall that would make the 7D look bad and that we will not be seeing a replacement for the 7D till spring.

I would have to say that with the features on the new T4i, the 70D/7DII merge is looking like more of a reality. Why?

Here are my reasonings.

1. Current 60D is 5.3fps and T4i is 5fps.
2. They share the same 63 zone dual layer metering system.
3. They share the same 9 point AF system.
4. The T4i shares some features of the 7D like the built-in speedlite transmitter.

The 70D would have to be placed in the 7-8 fps range and likely sport a higher MP sensor. Like I have mentioned before, 18MP cannot be where Canon draws the sensor limit. The features found in the T4i would likely make it into the 70D as well.

That leaves us with the 7DII. Now, if it remains APS-C then it would have to have speed and features that exceed the 70D... hmmmm.

It makes more sence now than ever that Canon will "intergrate" the two lines. Either a 7DII OR a high performance XXD line camera (70D). The only other thing I can think of for the 7DII is a high performance (without APS-H or a "pro" body) line similar camera to the 1D series, but that doesn't make much sence. It would have to sport 10-12 fps (and perhaps a lower MP sensor) and have superior low-light capibilities, but I suppose anything is possible.

If Canon makes a budget FF, then this is the logical roadmap. The firmware update for the 7D suggests to me that this is where the line is going.

D

I agree with you. The feature improvements of the 650D mean there's no great reason to buy a 60D right now (if you can put up with the smaller size and no rear thumb dial on the 650D). The xxD line is getting feature-squeeze from below and the next xxD is getting pushed right into 7D territory - makes a lot of sense to merge lines. It would tidy up the naming immensely if they reserved all the xD naming for full frame only, and pushed the next 7D into budget full-frame territory.

Here's my road-map prediction:
----------------------
CROP SENSOR
----------------------
xxxxD:  Budget      - 1100D, 1200D, 1300D...2000D, 2100D, 2200D...
xxxD:   Enthusiast - 650D, 700D, 750D, 800D, 850D, 900D, 950D, 960D, 970D, 980D...
xxD:     Premium    - (7D), 70D, 71D, 80D, 81D, 82D, 90D, etc

-------------------
FULL FRAME
-------------------
7D:  Budget       - 7DmkII, 7DmkIII...
5D:  Semi-pro    - 5DmkIII, 5DmkIV...
3D:  High MP     - 3D, 3DmkII...
1DX:  Premium  - 1DX. 1DXmkII...

--------------------------
FULL FRAME CINE
--------------------------
1DC:  Premium - 1DC, 1DCmkII...


The 7D, 5D and 3D lines will natually get more cine features as they go on which gives them "feature headroom". Thus I doubt there will be a 7DC, 5DC or 3DC, but you never know.

As for the "3D", sure it creates confusion but in terms of price, it would probably sit in-between the 5D and 1DX, thus the 3D moniker is most likely.

P.S. - APS-H is dead.





« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 11:04:25 PM by Gcon »

unfocused

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #77 on: June 08, 2012, 11:26:59 PM »
They are going to introduce a 7D2...could also suggest that it may be APS-H...

Reaching out a hand to shake your shoulder and wake you up from the dream...   ::)

Thank God somebody has some sense here.

Canon just produced a major firmware upgrade for their "flagship APS-C format DSLR" (Their words, not mine) and people are imagining that they are going to a) merge this with an inferior model or b) change to a sensor size that they've abandoned.

These aren't mere dreams, they are full-on drug-induced, hallucinogenic fantasies.

The 70D will get the autofocus and most other characteristics of the 7D (except the alloy body). It will go up to about $1,300-$1,400 U.S. Close enough to the T4i to enable retailers to upsale potential customers. (Once a buyer crosses the physiological threshold of $1,000, it's pretty easy to get them to pop for a few hundred dollars more.)

That still leaves lots of room for a 7DII, which will get a new sensor, higher frame rate, enhanced autofocus, enhanced weathersealing and whatever else Canon decides to cram into it (driven by their targeted price point.) Pricing will be anywhere from $1,700 to $2,400 depending on features.

If it's under $2,000, we could see a 7Dx with an integrated grip and full weathersealing. (Professional sports/wildlife camera to replace the APS-H 1D. They can sell the pro-level for anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 depending on how they target and market it.

Bottom line, Canon has at least $1,000 to $1,500 in headroom between the top Rebel and the flagship APS-C 7DII. That's plenty of room for a 70D and maybe even something else.

This fixation with an arbitrary numbering nomenclature as though it has to follow certain imaginary rules is just weird.
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Richard8971

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #78 on: June 08, 2012, 11:27:53 PM »
What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ? :)

Honestly? 0%

Why? Firmware cannot change a camera's mechanical limits. The camera's fps is rated for it's optimum speed, under perfect conditions. Firmware cannot change that.

However...

Firmware CAN change the programming of the Digic chip. The Digic 4 chip in the Rebel is the same as the Digic 4 in the 1Ds series and 50/60D. It would cost way to much to make a seperate chip for each camera. All they have to do with one Digic chip is to load different programs in to lock/unlock different features of each camera. I would imagine that Canon put in the size of ROM chip to suit the max. burst rate that best suit the output of the camera's firmware program.

Seems to me that Canon might have found a way to process the images differently so that the burst rate can be increased. Or the 7D came with more ROM space than what the original firmware was programmed to take advantage of. They do that all the time in computers. Sometimes larger capacity chips are cheaper than smaller capacity chips, but because of marketing they downsized the capacity of the memory installed to the user. Maybe Canon will shed some light as to why it was able to be inceased, but I for one am looking forward to the update!  ;D
 
D
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Richard8971

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2012, 11:42:10 PM »
Canon just produced a major firmware upgrade for their "flagship APS-C format DSLR" (Their words, not mine) and people are imagining that they are going to a) merge this with an inferior model or b) change to a sensor size that they've abandoned.

These aren't mere dreams, they are full-on drug-induced, hallucinogenic fantasies.

Um, didn't Canon just do this with the 1DX? ???  They took the flagship IDs line and the inferior ID line and merged them together to make one of the most advanced DSLR's ever made. Hmmm... I very clearly see them doing this with the XXD line and the 7D line.

The new list of VERY impressive features on the T4i ( and 1DX/5DIII) tell me that Canon isn't joking around anymore. They are out to produce some of the best cameras ever developed. Why sould the next 7D be any different?

Besides, with a possible new budget FF being rumored, it would likely be placed in the $2200-$2600 price range. The new 7D would then have to be kept in the $1600-$1800 price range, which would mean the 70D with a 18+ MP sensor, at 7-8 fps and added with the features of the 7D or 5DIII would have to be placed in the $1200-$1400 price range.

Um, I'm thinking no...

D
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 12:05:24 AM by Richard8971 »
Canon 5D2, 7Dv2.03, 50D, 40D, T1i, XTi...XT (& lenses, flahses), various powershots... You get the idea... I have a problem. :)

Wife shoots Nikon, D7000, D7100, (lenses and flashes)... we constantly tease each other that our cameras are better than each others!

dilbert

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #80 on: June 08, 2012, 11:54:39 PM »
What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ? :)

Depending on the card you use, some people (e.g. dpreview.com) already get 24 RAW frame burst instead of Canon's stated 15 RAW frame burst. However dpreview report that the 5D Mark III is limited to 17 whilst Canon claim 18.

So on the one hand, Canon are overstating the performance (5D Mark III) which is what we'd expect, and on the other hand (7D), Canon seem to be understating the performance.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2012, 12:04:50 AM »
Canon just produced a major firmware upgrade for their "flagship APS-C format DSLR" (Their words, not mine) and people are imagining that they are going to a) merge this with an inferior model or b) change to a sensor size that they've abandoned.

These aren't mere dreams, they are full-on drug-induced, hallucinogenic fantasies.

Um, didn't Canon just do this with the 1DX? ???  They took the flagship IDs line and the inferior ID line and merged them together to make one of the most advanced DSLR's ever made. Hmmm... I very clearly see them doing this with the XXD line and the 7D line.

Um, no they didn't do that.They dropped an obsolete technology and merged the models into the flagship full frame. You would have a point if they had dropped the full frame flagship and kept the cheaper APS-H, but they didn't. They upgraded the more expensive model and gave it a new letter.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2012, 12:04:50 AM »

Richard8971

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2012, 12:10:40 AM »
Um, no they didn't do that.

Say what you want, but Canon DID merge two lines and they can do it again with the XXD line and XD line. Simple enough.

Unless you somehow have insider information to Canon's prototypes and roadmap...or do you?  :o  ::) None of us really know for sure what they are going to do, so all of us here have dreams of new future equipment being offered. :)

D
Canon 5D2, 7Dv2.03, 50D, 40D, T1i, XTi...XT (& lenses, flahses), various powershots... You get the idea... I have a problem. :)

Wife shoots Nikon, D7000, D7100, (lenses and flashes)... we constantly tease each other that our cameras are better than each others!

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #83 on: June 09, 2012, 12:22:56 AM »
What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ? :)

Depending on the card you use, some people (e.g. dpreview.com) already get 24 RAW frame burst instead of Canon's stated 15 RAW frame burst. However dpreview report that the 5D Mark III is limited to 17 whilst Canon claim 18.

So on the one hand, Canon are overstating the performance (5D Mark III) which is what we'd expect, and on the other hand (7D), Canon seem to be understating the performance.

You can get way more than 17 on a 5D3!

"A few numbers (all tests at 1/800th shutter, no IS, no AF, no NR or any other in cam jpg special processing options, max continuous drive mode selected (7D pointed at a bright light so as to maintain max frame rate)) with the raw number being number of shots before you hear it slow down shooting and timed number is the continuous time you could shoot non-stop at the camera's max frame rate (derived by a simple frames/max fps of camera):

Test 1 (lens cap on or super underexposed near black frames (i.e. with requiring minimum for storage) at ISO100 on 5D3):

14 shots with a slow Lexar 16GB 200x card
17 shots with a 30MB/s SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card
20 shots (3.3s) with a 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 90GB/s card
35 shots (5.8s) with a 32GB Lexar 1000x card (whoa! 35! vs 20! 5.8s of continuous shooting vs only 3.3s!)

(so the Lexar 1000x makes a surprisingly large difference on the 5D3 and is well worth the $ if you seriously shoot action with the 5D3, do note that the 16GB 1000x card is said to be slower than the 32GB and larger 1000x cards so the advantage may be less if you go for the 16GB size; with this speed card the 5D3 continuous shooting time easily beats the 5D2 and 7D)

Test 2 (as above but on a 5D2):
16 shots (4.1s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
17 shots (4.3s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 5D2; with this speed card the 5D3 actually lets you shoot continuously for less long than the 5D2 or 7D)

Test 3 (as above but on a 7D):
29 shots (3.7s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
28 shots (3.5s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 7D, same result)

Test 4 (these have an actual image being shot and the ISOs are higher so each RAW file is larger, the performance drops considerably, especially above ISO800 and NOTE that the numbers will vary depending upon the scene shot as different scenes and exposures will produce different file sizes and any given scenario may bump all the numbers noticeably up or down; all are on the Lexar 32GB 1000x card):

ISO3200 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s) - a big drop from the 35 for ISO100 black frame
ISO1600 5D3 - 24 shots (4s)
ISO800 5D3 - 30 shots (5s)

Test 5 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card was used in all cases):

ISO3200 5D3 - 14 shots (2.3s)
ISO1600 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s)
ISO800 5D3 - 22 shots (3.7s)

Test 6 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s card was used):
ISO800 5D3 - 15 shots (2.5s)

So yeah for most Canon cameras the Lexar 1000x will not be worth the money at all (unless you are want to pay that much for faster transfer speed to your computer and your computer supports USB3 and you have a USB3 card read that also takes full UDMA 7 advantage) but for the 5D3 wow if you are serious about shooting action and dont want to be saddled with a shorter shooting time buffer than the old 5D2 or 7D then get the Lexar 1000x, suddenly you actually can shoot for longer times non-stop than with the 5D2 or 7D and often by a large margin. So for the 5D3 and action it is well worth it. "

Richard8971

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #84 on: June 09, 2012, 12:31:06 AM »
I would have to agree with many of the posts here. If this new firmware becomes reality I would say that any new 7D would be delayed OR merged with the XXD. Why?

Well, when Canon first introduced the 7D it featured many new technologies. Even so, the 50D and 7D were pretty close in basic features (15MP, 6.3fps vs 18MP, 8fps) and Canon could NOT have the "semi-pro" XXD line positioned so closely to their flagship APS-C camera!

Tada!!! The 60D!!! It featured a plastic body, reduced frame rate and other things that separated it from the 7D and kept it about $500 cheaper.

Now we have the T4i. It might as well be the next 60D in terms of features/fps and it costs about a hundred less at the present time. In many ways the T4i appears to be a superior camera. That 'ups' the bar for any new XXD line, BY A LOT!!! The given price range for 2  high performance cameras in-between a possible budget FF and the Rebel doesn't make much sense. Better to drop the XXD line and go for the throat. Make one hell of a flagship ASP-C camera! Besides, it would make the competition against any new budget FF lower for Canon, sales-wise.

D
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 12:36:32 AM by Richard8971 »
Canon 5D2, 7Dv2.03, 50D, 40D, T1i, XTi...XT (& lenses, flahses), various powershots... You get the idea... I have a problem. :)

Wife shoots Nikon, D7000, D7100, (lenses and flashes)... we constantly tease each other that our cameras are better than each others!

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #85 on: June 09, 2012, 12:33:04 AM »
(Once a buyer crosses the physiological threshold of $1,000, it's pretty easy to get them to pop for a few hundred dollars more.)

I see a guy at a camera store laying down cash, then, as he gets close to $1k, his heart rate increases, eyes swim, and ears pound. His arm, aching and quivering, slowly advances until his cash triumphantly reaches the counter top! He quickly drops a few hundred dollars more, swoops up his camera, and races out of the store! [freeze frame at the door, in silhouette, one arm extended in glory!].

Yeah, pretty sure that's not a typo. I'm so doing that on my next purchase.

Richard8971

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #86 on: June 09, 2012, 12:33:20 AM »
What is the chance of firmware update for the 5d3 and 5d2 10fps ? :)

Depending on the card you use, some people (e.g. dpreview.com) already get 24 RAW frame burst instead of Canon's stated 15 RAW frame burst. However dpreview report that the 5D Mark III is limited to 17 whilst Canon claim 18.

So on the one hand, Canon are overstating the performance (5D Mark III) which is what we'd expect, and on the other hand (7D), Canon seem to be understating the performance.

You can get way more than 17 on a 5D3!

"A few numbers (all tests at 1/800th shutter, no IS, no AF, no NR or any other in cam jpg special processing options, max continuous drive mode selected (7D pointed at a bright light so as to maintain max frame rate)) with the raw number being number of shots before you hear it slow down shooting and timed number is the continuous time you could shoot non-stop at the camera's max frame rate (derived by a simple frames/max fps of camera):

Test 1 (lens cap on or super underexposed near black frames (i.e. with requiring minimum for storage) at ISO100 on 5D3):

14 shots with a slow Lexar 16GB 200x card
17 shots with a 30MB/s SanDisk Extreme III 8GB card
20 shots (3.3s) with a 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 90GB/s card
35 shots (5.8s) with a 32GB Lexar 1000x card (whoa! 35! vs 20! 5.8s of continuous shooting vs only 3.3s!)

(so the Lexar 1000x makes a surprisingly large difference on the 5D3 and is well worth the $ if you seriously shoot action with the 5D3, do note that the 16GB 1000x card is said to be slower than the 32GB and larger 1000x cards so the advantage may be less if you go for the 16GB size; with this speed card the 5D3 continuous shooting time easily beats the 5D2 and 7D)

Test 2 (as above but on a 5D2):
16 shots (4.1s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
17 shots (4.3s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 5D2; with this speed card the 5D3 actually lets you shoot continuously for less long than the 5D2 or 7D)

Test 3 (as above but on a 7D):
29 shots (3.7s) with a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card
28 shots (3.5s) with a Lexar 32GB 1000x card

(so the extra $ for the Lexar 1000x makes no difference on a 7D, same result)

Test 4 (these have an actual image being shot and the ISOs are higher so each RAW file is larger, the performance drops considerably, especially above ISO800 and NOTE that the numbers will vary depending upon the scene shot as different scenes and exposures will produce different file sizes and any given scenario may bump all the numbers noticeably up or down; all are on the Lexar 32GB 1000x card):

ISO3200 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s) - a big drop from the 35 for ISO100 black frame
ISO1600 5D3 - 24 shots (4s)
ISO800 5D3 - 30 shots (5s)

Test 5 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s card was used in all cases):

ISO3200 5D3 - 14 shots (2.3s)
ISO1600 5D3 - 20 shots (3.3s)
ISO800 5D3 - 22 shots (3.7s)

Test 6 (as above only this time a SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s card was used):
ISO800 5D3 - 15 shots (2.5s)

So yeah for most Canon cameras the Lexar 1000x will not be worth the money at all (unless you are want to pay that much for faster transfer speed to your computer and your computer supports USB3 and you have a USB3 card read that also takes full UDMA 7 advantage) but for the 5D3 wow if you are serious about shooting action and dont want to be saddled with a shorter shooting time buffer than the old 5D2 or 7D then get the Lexar 1000x, suddenly you actually can shoot for longer times non-stop than with the 5D2 or 7D and often by a large margin. So for the 5D3 and action it is well worth it. "

Um, forgive me, but wasn't he asking about fps and NOT burst rate? Isn't that what 'fps' means? Or am I misreading it?

D
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 12:47:41 AM by Richard8971 »
Canon 5D2, 7Dv2.03, 50D, 40D, T1i, XTi...XT (& lenses, flahses), various powershots... You get the idea... I have a problem. :)

Wife shoots Nikon, D7000, D7100, (lenses and flashes)... we constantly tease each other that our cameras are better than each others!

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2012, 12:39:32 AM »
There is no doubt in my mind that the faster cards must be a major contributor. When the 7D was released then the faster cards were not around so the firmware upgrade makes sense. At 24 frames RAW the 7D is getting into 1D4 territory ( which is also noticeably better with the 90mb cards)

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2012, 12:39:32 AM »

distant.star

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #88 on: June 09, 2012, 12:40:55 AM »
.
The APS-H is DEAD and in it's grave as far as new products. RIP -- Get over it already.

Two disagreements with unfocus:

1. I've never heard physiology expressed in economic terms. Perhaps you mean "psychological."

2. Canon is preparing for a 7D2 that will be the APS-C equivalent of the 1DX. Pricing will be in the $2500 to $3000 range. If they can get past the gross irresponsibility of the 1DX delivery failure, the 7D2 is the next big project.



They are going to introduce a 7D2...could also suggest that it may be APS-H...

Reaching out a hand to shake your shoulder and wake you up from the dream...   ::)

Thank God somebody has some sense here.

Canon just produced a major firmware upgrade for their "flagship APS-C format DSLR" (Their words, not mine) and people are imagining that they are going to a) merge this with an inferior model or b) change to a sensor size that they've abandoned.

These aren't mere dreams, they are full-on drug-induced, hallucinogenic fantasies.

The 70D will get the autofocus and most other characteristics of the 7D (except the alloy body). It will go up to about $1,300-$1,400 U.S. Close enough to the T4i to enable retailers to upsale potential customers. (Once a buyer crosses the physiological threshold of $1,000, it's pretty easy to get them to pop for a few hundred dollars more.)

That still leaves lots of room for a 7DII, which will get a new sensor, higher frame rate, enhanced autofocus, enhanced weathersealing and whatever else Canon decides to cram into it (driven by their targeted price point.) Pricing will be anywhere from $1,700 to $2,400 depending on features.

If it's under $2,000, we could see a 7Dx with an integrated grip and full weathersealing. (Professional sports/wildlife camera to replace the APS-H 1D. They can sell the pro-level for anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 depending on how they target and market it.

Bottom line, Canon has at least $1,000 to $1,500 in headroom between the top Rebel and the flagship APS-C 7DII. That's plenty of room for a 70D and maybe even something else.

This fixation with an arbitrary numbering nomenclature as though it has to follow certain imaginary rules is just weird.
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briansquibb

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #89 on: June 09, 2012, 12:58:23 AM »
.
The APS-H is DEAD and in it's grave as far as new products. RIP -- Get over it already.


That has never been stated by Canon - in fact there are hints that the APS-H sized sensor will be used in video.

It is daft to make statements like that unless you have inside info on Canon's technical tactical plans.

I would have said the recent 650D announcement and other rumours would have made it more likely. The APS-H sensor has proven itself at high mps which means that the rumoured non 1 series high mps might well be APS-H as a high mps ff would be more expensive and take the sales away from the 1DX (which isn't going to happen)

A 'inferior' APS-H sensored, small bodied, cheaper but high mps body would slot in nicely between the 5DIII and the 1DX.

I think it is APS-C which will come under pressure as the 'budget' sector puts in APS-C sensors - then the $500 handy cams would start giving images as good as the entry level DSLRs - meaning soccer mums and uncle joes would have no reason to buy DSLRs - in which case the volume entry level collapses taking with it the upgraders as well, just leaving the enthusiasts and a few pros

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Firmware Version 2 Coming Soon
« Reply #89 on: June 09, 2012, 12:58:23 AM »