Examples of DR photos and why this is important to landscape shooters

[iso79]

Quit complaining. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If you really want it, save up for it or wait for a price drop in a year or two.

[Orangutan]

I'm not complaining that the 5D3 is not good enough. I'm complaining that its price is out of line with the D800: it should be clearly cheaper, not massively more expensive.

This has been asserted numerous times in previous threads, but the answer has been known for two thousand years:

"Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it." -- Publius Syrius

Nothing else matters, and it will remain at this price as long as purchasers are willing to pay.

[Neeneko]

I'm not complaining that the 5D3 is not good enough. I'm complaining that its price is out of line with the D800: it should be clearly cheaper, not massively more expensive.

Why should it be cheaper?
Outside the two cameras coming out at about the same time and being similar in price point, they are not really related.  The D800 does better at some things, the 5D3 better at others.  Of course if you are focused on the D800's strengths it seems odd the 5D3 is more expensive, but if you are focused on the 5D3's streghts the price makes a lot more sense (though many will still complain since we, as consumers generally want things cheaper)

[NormanBates]

* I can afford it, but I won't pay $3500 for it: I don't think it's good bang-for-buck, there are better alternatives in the market (D800).

* The only 5D3 strengths I see are "it can use my current Canon lenses" and "it has clean video". At anything else, the D800 wins, or it's a tie.

* I also think many people think like me, and sales are low (yes, I know it's out of stock everywhere, but only because Canon has had lots of manufacturing issues, not because demand was strong, see link at the end).

* I know it's worth whatever people are ready to pay for it. If manufacturing issues are solved and cameras start to pile up in the shelves, the price will fall. That is what happened with 60D vs D7000, and D700 vs 5D2, and I expect to see it soon with the 5D3.

* You think I'm crazy? In the first weeks, where it was really hard to find a 5D3 in stock, they sold on ebay for a big markup ($4000 body only). But now it can already be bought at a discount at reputable ebay sellers ($3220). I think the official price will follow in the coming weeks.



that's why I started this thread: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6539.45

[art_d]

Can anyone provide me with example(s) of pictures that needed high DR to expose/bring out shadows/clip highlights, etc.? I am trying to evaluate how important it is to my shooting.

I wrote an article about dynamic range awhile ago on my blog as it related to making this image (shot with a 5DII):



Basically I needed to keep from blowing the highlights in the sky and lift the shadows in the foreground so they were dark blue instead of black. This was done by processing the raw file three separate times and blending the images together, and then using a combination of selective noise reduction, manual blur, and large feature sharpening to address shadow noise.
 
So yeah, more dyanmic range is never a bad thing.

[briansquibb]

* I can afford it, but I won't pay $3500 for it: I don't think it's good bang-for-buck, there are better alternatives in the market (D800).

* The only 5D3 strengths I see are "it can use my current Canon lenses" and "it has clean video". At anything else, the D800 wins, or it's a tie.

* I also think many people think like me, and sales are low (yes, I know it's out of stock everywhere, but only because Canon has had lots of manufacturing issues, not because demand was strong, see link at the end).

* I know it's worth whatever people are ready to pay for it. If manufacturing issues are solved and cameras start to pile up in the shelves, the price will fall. That is what happened with 60D vs D7000, and D700 vs 5D2, and I expect to see it soon with the 5D3.

* You think I'm crazy? In the first weeks, where it was really hard to find a 5D3 in stock, they sold on ebay for a big markup ($4000 body only). But now it can already be bought at a discount at reputable ebay sellers ($3220). I think the official price will follow in the coming weeks.



that's why I started this thread: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6539.45

I think everone should buy the camera which is best for them. For whatever reasons people have different needs and requirements. If the 5DIII doesn't suit then that it is fine.

[Neeneko]

* The only 5D3 strengths I see are "it can use my current Canon lenses" and "it has clean video". At anything else, the D800 wins, or it's a tie.

The 'video' alone is enough to do it.  The 5D2 was a big success in no small part due to its popularity among video shooters.  With the 5D3 they are trying to build off that success by giving video capabilities a high design priority.  So a significant chunk of the 5D3 target audience are primarily concerned with how it behaves for video.

While the D800 does not exactly do poorly in that regard, it is generally held that the 5D3 is more geared for it.

[preppyak]

* You think I'm crazy? In the first weeks, where it was really hard to find a 5D3 in stock, they sold on ebay for a big markup ($4000 body only). But now it can already be bought at a discount at reputable ebay sellers ($3220). I think the official price will follow in the coming weeks.

that's why I started this thread: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6539.45

Yes, you are crazy, and for the same reasons people stated in that thread. Amazon USA's top seller list is one specific metric of many...and yet you are inferring everything from it. For one, a lot of the original pre-orders got cancelled at Amazon because B+H, Adorama, etc got stock before them. Cameras were shipping and people got mad that Amazon hadn't even gotten a shipment yet. You can find threads on this forum to that effect. So that would impact your numbers. Especially since the D800 has had universal stock issues, and I haven't read about a specific retailer getting orders dumped. That doesn't even factor in whether the target audiences would normally buy from Amazon.

Then lets go further. Amazon has one option for the D800, yet two for the 5dIII (body and kit). Today, the 5dIII body is 5th, the D800 is 6th, the 5dIII kit is 39th. Do you know what that means? No, because that only tells you relative numbers. Do pre-orders affect those rankings? Do they factor in cancelled orders? If I'm assuming answers like you, I'd assume the D800 got crushed today and I should expect to see it for $2800 in a few weeks. You're asking the 8-Ball for answers and assuming its all knowing.

At best, I think you'd see Canon admit prices are too high by doing a big body/lens combo rebate. Rather than taking $150 or $200 off, like they have for the APS-C cameras, you'd see $3-400 when you buy a lens with it. Even then, I wouldn't expect that until the end of summer.

[bdunbar79]

* I can afford it, but I won't pay $3500 for it: I don't think it's good bang-for-buck, there are better alternatives in the market (D800).

* The only 5D3 strengths I see are "it can use my current Canon lenses" and "it has clean video". At anything else, the D800 wins, or it's a tie.

* I also think many people think like me, and sales are low (yes, I know it's out of stock everywhere, but only because Canon has had lots of manufacturing issues, not because demand was strong, see link at the end).

* I know it's worth whatever people are ready to pay for it. If manufacturing issues are solved and cameras start to pile up in the shelves, the price will fall. That is what happened with 60D vs D7000, and D700 vs 5D2, and I expect to see it soon with the 5D3.

* You think I'm crazy? In the first weeks, where it was really hard to find a 5D3 in stock, they sold on ebay for a big markup ($4000 body only). But now it can already be bought at a discount at reputable ebay sellers ($3220). I think the official price will follow in the coming weeks.



that's why I started this thread: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6539.45

The only strengths you see?  Please post photos you have taken with the 5D Mark III sir and point out to us which features of your photos you are not sufficiently satisfied over the 5D Mark II.  Do you own the 5D Mark III?  Have you used it extensively?  I have had both and there are many improved features vs. what you list.  How do I know?  I used both everyday.  Do you own or have you used a D800?  Or are you just literate?

[cliffwang]

* I can afford it, but I won't pay $3500 for it: I don't think it's good bang-for-buck, there are better alternatives in the market (D800).

I also won't pay 3.5K for 5D3.  However, I have different thought.
1. Selling my 5D2 and buying 5D3 will cost about 2K.  It doesn't worth for me.
2. The price of 5D3 should drop in few months because of its competitor D800.
However, D800 is not a really alternative of 5D3.  The market between 5D3 and D800 is still quite different.  High ISO vs high MP/DR is just like apple vs orange.  Maybe D600 will be the really alternative of 5D3.
The only thing I feel bad is why Nikon can give its users better price and Canon cannot.  I will buy 5D3 if its price drops to 3K in end of this year.  Otherwise, I might just wait for Canon's other model.  I am okay with my 5D2 now, so I can just wait.  No rush for me.

[Marsu42]

However, D800 is not a really alternative of 5D3.  The market between 5D3 and D800 is still quite different.  High ISO vs high MP/DR is just like apple vs orange.

If you're going to upgrade to the 5d3 I'd advise you to look at the 5d2/5d3 controlled raw samples yourself (see dpreview): This is the nearly the same sensor, the successor only has a "nicer" noise pattern - you fell for the "high iso" marketing. Only extremely high iso will show a difference, but then dynamic range is low.

The 5d3 has other nice features like the af if your lens happens to be in a group that allows it to use the full af (see the manual), more fps, silent shutter, yadayadayada. But a denoised and scaled down d800 image is just as good as the 5d3's, I'm sorry to say as a Canon user.

Maybe D600 will be the really alternative of 5D3. The only thing I feel bad is why Nikon can give its users better price and Canon cannot.

Simple: Sony has done the r&d, and Nikon uses their sensors while Canon cannot get at the patents - so they're stuck with the tech that was current when they developed the 5d2. They have to develop something on their own, ask again in two or more years for progress.

[cliffwang]

If you're going to upgrade to the 5d3 I'd advise you to look at the 5d2/5d3 controlled raw samples yourself (see dpreview): This is the nearly the same sensor, the successor only has a "nicer" noise pattern - you fell for the "high iso" marketing. Only extremely high iso will show a difference, but then dynamic range is low.

I heard that the raw IQ on 5D2/5D3 is not much different.  However, when I see some samples on ISO 3200 and 6400 from 5D3, I feel they have better noise control then my 5D2.
You mentioned that 5D3 has nicer noise pattern then 5D2.  Does that mean after I use LR to reduce the noise from 5D2 raw files, they will looks similar to the 5D3 raw files?  By the way, do you have the review link?

The 5d3 has other nice features like the af if your lens happens to be in a group that allows it to use the full af (see the manual), more fps, silent shutter, yadayadayada. But a denoised and scaled down d800 image is just as good as the 5d3's, I'm sorry to say as a Canon user.

A quick question.  If you scaled a ISO 6400 D800 image files from 36MP to 22MP, will the file has same quality with files taken from 5D3 @ISO 6400?

[Kernuak]

If you're going to upgrade to the 5d3 I'd advise you to look at the 5d2/5d3 controlled raw samples yourself (see dpreview): This is the nearly the same sensor, the successor only has a "nicer" noise pattern - you fell for the "high iso" marketing. Only extremely high iso will show a difference, but then dynamic range is low.

Some people do need to shoot at that level at times though. From my quick tests just after the announcement, there were about 1.5 stops difference between the MkII and MkIII. Even without the need for lower noise, the focusing improvements will also be a benefit for many. While it is by no means a sports or wildlife camera, it can be used for most applications in sports and wildlife. It is a relatively low number of occasions where I actually need a high frame rate, in which case, I'd use my 7D (when I eventually get a 5D MkIII). I have actually used my 5D MkII for moving wildlife (diving gannets), but it was a real chore. Basically it was a single shot, trying to time when they dived (I did get some success though). The extra two fps and better focus tracking would have been much better. At the time, I wasn't convinced that my 7D was performing properly IQ-wise, but it turned out it was a Lightroom issue annoyingly.

[TTMartin]

Then why is the Canon 5D Mk III, now out selling the Nikon D800 at Amazon?
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3017941

* I can afford it, but I won't pay $3500 for it: I don't think it's good bang-for-buck, there are better alternatives in the market (D800).

* The only 5D3 strengths I see are "it can use my current Canon lenses" and "it has clean video". At anything else, the D800 wins, or it's a tie.

* I also think many people think like me, and sales are low (yes, I know it's out of stock everywhere, but only because Canon has had lots of manufacturing issues, not because demand was strong, see link at the end).

* I know it's worth whatever people are ready to pay for it. If manufacturing issues are solved and cameras start to pile up in the shelves, the price will fall. That is what happened with 60D vs D7000, and D700 vs 5D2, and I expect to see it soon with the 5D3.

* You think I'm crazy? In the first weeks, where it was really hard to find a 5D3 in stock, they sold on ebay for a big markup ($4000 body only). But now it can already be bought at a discount at reputable ebay sellers ($3220). I think the official price will follow in the coming weeks.



that's why I started this thread: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6539.45

[TTMartin]

...
If you're going to upgrade to the 5d3 I'd advise you to look at the 5d2/5d3 controlled raw samples yourself (see dpreview): This is the nearly the same sensor, the successor only has a "nicer" noise pattern - you fell for the "high iso" marketing. Only extremely high iso will show a difference, but then dynamic range is low.
...

Here's the link at DPReview: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii/28

When you change it to higher ISO the 5D MkIII sure looks like it has less noise to me.

Nicer noise is that the new Nikon phrase for less noise when it applies to Canon cameras?