Canon EOS-1D X Manual Posted

[JaxPhotoBuff]

Jax, those lenses are extremely slow. They will most definitely shoot at a slower speed since the AF will take longer to lock on. And while I know my 1D MK IV never really gets 10 FPS unless I hit have the camera in one shot, I can use the AF stop button on my super-telephoto lenses to get the max burst speed. This works great for baseball if you want a shot of the ball leaving the bat. 12 FPS just means that I should get at least 10 in AI-Servo. I also noticed a frame rate increase when I updated my 70-200 f/2.8L IS to the newest version. The 70-200 f/2.8 IS II seems to give me an even faster frame rate than my 300 f/2.8 IS or 200 f/2.0 IS but maybe that is just me.

The buffer should hold around 50 RAW images, the 30 image buffer must have been an early model. Keep in mind we are still dealing with pre-production bodies. Lord knows what is inside those.

People are still comparing the 5D MK III to the 1DX, they are completely different monsters. In my testing I saw only a little more than 1 stop improvement in high ISO with the 5D3 over the 5D2. I've downloaded and played with several 1DX files and they look absolutely phenomenal. The 1DX probably has at least a 3-stop advantage over the 5D2.

This is a great year for Canon and I'm excited to finally get a camera body that combines my favorite features of the full frame bodies with the pro sports bodies. At one point I almost switched to Nikon but this is truly the year the be a Canon shooter. I'm already in love with the radio capabilities of the 600EX-RT.

I know I'm a noob to the forum but here are my credentials
http://markwebbphoto.com/

Mark, thanks for your feedback and input about the likely meaning of the quoted portion of the manual. I had noticed that the referenced lenses were considerably slower than what I'm usually using for sports (70-200 f/2.8L IS), but the way they placed the asterisk in the sentence made me wonder about the meaning. 

I share your enthusiasm for the combination of new features and performance offered by the 1Dx. 

Welcome to the forum!

[messus]

Jax, those lenses are extremely slow. They will most definitely shoot at a slower speed since the AF will take longer to lock on. And while I know my 1D MK IV never really gets 10 FPS unless I hit have the camera in one shot, I can use the AF stop button on my super-telephoto lenses to get the max burst speed. This works great for baseball if you want a shot of the ball leaving the bat. 12 FPS just means that I should get at least 10 in AI-Servo. I also noticed a frame rate increase when I updated my 70-200 f/2.8L IS to the newest version. The 70-200 f/2.8 IS II seems to give me an even faster frame rate than my 300 f/2.8 IS or 200 f/2.0 IS but maybe that is just me.

The buffer should hold around 50 RAW images, the 30 image buffer must have been an early model. Keep in mind we are still dealing with pre-production bodies. Lord knows what is inside those.

People are still comparing the 5D MK III to the 1DX, they are completely different monsters. In my testing I saw only a little more than 1 stop improvement in high ISO with the 5D3 over the 5D2. I've downloaded and played with several 1DX files and they look absolutely phenomenal. The 1DX probably has at least a 3-stop advantage over the 5D2.

This is a great year for Canon and I'm excited to finally get a camera body that combines my favorite features of the full frame bodies with the pro sports bodies. At one point I almost switched to Nikon but this is truly the year the be a Canon shooter. I'm already in love with the radio capabilities of the 600EX-RT.

I know I'm a noob to the forum but here are my credentials
http://markwebbphoto.com/

I am sorry Mark, but your assumption of 50 RAW files until buffer stops on 1DX is wrong, read my post and watch my video. Buffer stops camera from shooting after 35-36 frames. I wish it was twice as big.

Also, I have tested the 1DX and compared it to my 5D3, 5D2, and the D4, D800,D800E.
No way if the 1DX has a two stop advantage on the 5D3 as you claim, the 1DX has maybe 1/2 stop
advantage on the 5D3. And even if this is good, and just as good as the D4, I was hoping for more from the 1DX. I have lots of RAWs from all cameras, even underexposed to try to lift shadows and check DR in post.

Some beautiful photos at your webpage, great work btw!

[ronmart_blogspot_com]

I'm getting 49 frames of RAW (lossless compression) with the D4 using the 95mb/sec Sandisk Extreme Pro 16GB CF card (95mb/sec).

http://www.ronmartblog.com/2012/06/review-nikon-d4-vs-nikon-d800-canon-5d.html

Ironically if I do RAW+JPEG I get the same result, so it seems that with CF its artifically capped at 49.

The drop off is brisk where there's zero lag for 49, then what feels like about a 1 second lag for each frame after that. I should have video it, but I just saw this thread and i sent the camera back this morning.

This could be a marketing ploy to make XQD look better because its uncharactaristic for cameras to go from full blast to single file sputtering. It's usually like full speed, then 80%, 50%, 30%, 20% then single file. 

For my Canon cameras - even the 5D Mark III - the drop off is gradual and not as bad once it starts to lag.

Ron

[sublime LightWorks]

1) Ron's numbers are wrong, sadly, check my proof video I posted in this thread. I have used the fastest memory card available, Lexar 128GB CF UDMA7 Pro, which I use daily with my 5D3. The 5D3 Canon also claim to be able to fully utilize any UDMA7 card with up to 167MB/s, which I have found to be wrong.
The 5D3 is capable of almost 100MB/s, about the same as the D4. (tested with speeds which allowed for continous shooting without the buffer stopping)

2) I am capable of shooting 33-34 RAW images at 6fps on my 5D3 with the Lexar UDMA7 card before buffer stops.

3) Seem like I am not entirely correct on the D4, (although I have read several places it could go higher), this guy is achieving 6-7 seconds continous shooting until buffer is full (at 05:45), this should mean 60-70 RAW files:
XQD + Nikon D4 full speed test

I have also done extensive speed testing on my own with the 5D3, 5D2, the D4, D800 and D800E, all with the Lexar 128GB UDMA7 CF Pro 1000x, since I work a lot with stop motion video in the dark, and need the cameras to be able to shoot as fast as possible without the buffer stopping. The 5D3 has about the same write speed as the D4. IMO the D4 is actually slightly disappointing in its computing power, taking into account its fast shutter mechanics. Still its buffer seem to be larger than the 1DX, since RAW files of D4 is actually 33MB compared to 28 on the 1DX.

With the price tag, and the shutter speed and the computing power availbale on the 1DX, I have to say I it is  disappointing Canon did not implement a bigger buffer, given also how cheap flash ram is these days, even if it might be enough for many people.

For my type of work, I am guessing the 1DX will still outperform the D4 (shooting as fast as possible without the buffer interfering), but thats not the only point. Even if my type of work is not what most people do, I also do regular work, such as wildlife and bird photography (BIF), and what If I am shooting an eagle diving down for a fish? This is a moment which could take much more than 3 seconds, sometimes 7-8seconds. But then the buffer on the 1DX is full.. 

And if I have to turn down the shooting speed of the 1DX to not fill up the buffer, then what is the point of me spending 7000 dollars on the 1DX rather than just using my 5D3 ?

See, now you're going to make me go and buy a Lexar 1000x to get that 33-34 RAW on my 5D3.   

I'm assuming the 1Dx you had was a pre-production unit, so perhaps it's still got a firmware update to go before it's at full speed. (Maybe).

It's also kind of weird that the D4 being 16Mpix has a larger RAW file than an 18Mpix 1Dx or a 22Mpix 5D3?

And I totally agree with you on the fact that RAM is cheap....it would be next to nothing to implement a RAW buffer of 60 to 96 RAW images for a 5-8 second burst buffer.

[messus]

1) Ron's numbers are wrong, sadly, check my proof video I posted in this thread. I have used the fastest memory card available, Lexar 128GB CF UDMA7 Pro, which I use daily with my 5D3. The 5D3 Canon also claim to be able to fully utilize any UDMA7 card with up to 167MB/s, which I have found to be wrong.
The 5D3 is capable of almost 100MB/s, about the same as the D4. (tested with speeds which allowed for continous shooting without the buffer stopping)

2) I am capable of shooting 33-34 RAW images at 6fps on my 5D3 with the Lexar UDMA7 card before buffer stops.

3) Seem like I am not entirely correct on the D4, (although I have read several places it could go higher), this guy is achieving 6-7 seconds continous shooting until buffer is full (at 05:45), this should mean 60-70 RAW files:
XQD + Nikon D4 full speed test

I have also done extensive speed testing on my own with the 5D3, 5D2, the D4, D800 and D800E, all with the Lexar 128GB UDMA7 CF Pro 1000x, since I work a lot with stop motion video in the dark, and need the cameras to be able to shoot as fast as possible without the buffer stopping. The 5D3 has about the same write speed as the D4. IMO the D4 is actually slightly disappointing in its computing power, taking into account its fast shutter mechanics. Still its buffer seem to be larger than the 1DX, since RAW files of D4 is actually 33MB compared to 28 on the 1DX.

With the price tag, and the shutter speed and the computing power availbale on the 1DX, I have to say I it is  disappointing Canon did not implement a bigger buffer, given also how cheap flash ram is these days, even if it might be enough for many people.

For my type of work, I am guessing the 1DX will still outperform the D4 (shooting as fast as possible without the buffer interfering), but thats not the only point. Even if my type of work is not what most people do, I also do regular work, such as wildlife and bird photography (BIF), and what If I am shooting an eagle diving down for a fish? This is a moment which could take much more than 3 seconds, sometimes 7-8seconds. But then the buffer on the 1DX is full.. 

And if I have to turn down the shooting speed of the 1DX to not fill up the buffer, then what is the point of me spending 7000 dollars on the 1DX rather than just using my 5D3 ?

See, now you're going to make me go and buy a Lexar 1000x to get that 33-34 RAW on my 5D3.   

I'm assuming the 1Dx you had was a pre-production unit, so perhaps it's still got a firmware update to go before it's at full speed. (Maybe).

It's also kind of weird that the D4 being 16Mpix has a larger RAW file than an 18Mpix 1Dx or a 22Mpix 5D3?

And I totally agree with you on the fact that RAM is cheap....it would be next to nothing to implement a RAW buffer of 60 to 96 RAW images for a 5-8 second burst buffer.

Hehe... Those Lexar cards are expensive, but IMO to fully utilize the 5D3 (and the 1DX) you probably need one.

I agree about the file sizes and megapixels on D4/1DX, strange. Let us hope this is not an indication of the 1DX getting crushed by the D4 in DR! Those pics I have done with the cameras does not indicate that, but we need to see more extensive tests done under controlled environment and lightning conditions.

And yes I really hope the model I was using was an early pre-production model, and that the final model is improved a lot. But to be honest I doubt it. But nothing would please me more than my doubts being proved wrong!!

[MarkWebbPhoto]

Jax, those lenses are extremely slow. They will most definitely shoot at a slower speed since the AF will take longer to lock on. And while I know my 1D MK IV never really gets 10 FPS unless I hit have the camera in one shot, I can use the AF stop button on my super-telephoto lenses to get the max burst speed. This works great for baseball if you want a shot of the ball leaving the bat. 12 FPS just means that I should get at least 10 in AI-Servo. I also noticed a frame rate increase when I updated my 70-200 f/2.8L IS to the newest version. The 70-200 f/2.8 IS II seems to give me an even faster frame rate than my 300 f/2.8 IS or 200 f/2.0 IS but maybe that is just me.

The buffer should hold around 50 RAW images, the 30 image buffer must have been an early model. Keep in mind we are still dealing with pre-production bodies. Lord knows what is inside those.

People are still comparing the 5D MK III to the 1DX, they are completely different monsters. In my testing I saw only a little more than 1 stop improvement in high ISO with the 5D3 over the 5D2. I've downloaded and played with several 1DX files and they look absolutely phenomenal. The 1DX probably has at least a 3-stop advantage over the 5D2.

This is a great year for Canon and I'm excited to finally get a camera body that combines my favorite features of the full frame bodies with the pro sports bodies. At one point I almost switched to Nikon but this is truly the year the be a Canon shooter. I'm already in love with the radio capabilities of the 600EX-RT.

I know I'm a noob to the forum but here are my credentials
http://markwebbphoto.com/

I am sorry Mark, but your assumption of 50 RAW files until buffer stops on 1DX is wrong, read my post and watch my video. Buffer stops camera from shooting after 35-36 frames. I wish it was twice as big.

Also, I have tested the 1DX and compared it to my 5D3, 5D2, and the D4, D800,D800E.
No way if the 1DX has a two stop advantage on the 5D3 as you claim, the 1DX has maybe 1/2 stop
advantage on the 5D3. And even if this is good, and just as good as the D4, I was hoping for more from the 1DX. I have lots of RAWs from all cameras, even underexposed to try to lift shadows and check DR in post.

Some beautiful photos at your webpage, great work btw!

Yeah maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part. Canon often understates their buffer capacities so I was hoping for a higher buffer rating with better cards but maybe since it is a pro body they assume you are using pro-grade memory cards. The-Digital-Picture.com lists it as 180 for JPEG and 38 for RAW and maybe after some firmware updates and some faster CF cards hit the market we may slowly be able to approach 45-50 RAW photos which is still quite wimpy. The JPEG buffer is definitely large enough for me and I never seem to have a problem with the buffer of the 1D MK IV when shooting in RAW or JPEG. If I do fill the buffer, I keep a second body handy!  For me, its RAW for weddings and portraits; JPEG for photojournalism and sports.

1DX overview: http://the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-1D-X-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

[pwp]

Check out page 100. This looks like it's identical to the 5D3, just described slightly differently in the manual. There is no mention of the hoped for red selected AF point remaining visible. Damn!

[nikkito]

my 5D mk II in servo doesnt even show the focus point being used.
well, the servo mode on the 5D is crap anyway

[pwp]

Has this already been picked up? Rob Galbraith has a link to a PDF paper on the 1DX-AF guide.
http://downloads.canon.com/CDLC/EOS_1DX_AF_Guide_CDLC_Updated_June_2012.pdf

It looks for sure like the red/black AF point issue has been completely addressed. Yay!
Now the firmware release for the 5D3 needs to ship and we'll all be up to date.

PW

[Zouk]

It looks for sure like the red/black AF point issue has been completely addressed. Yay!
Now the firmware release for the 5D3 needs to ship and we'll all be up to date.

PW

Maybe I'm just unobservant, but where in the manual does it say a change occurred?

[pwp]

It looks for sure like the red/black AF point issue has been completely addressed. Yay!
Now the firmware release for the 5D3 needs to ship and we'll all be up to date.

Maybe I'm just unobservant, but where in the manual does it say a change occurred?

Did you look through the 1DX AF Guide? I have had a couple of supervised test drives of pre-production 1DX, and I have a 5D3. What I'm seeing colorfully illustrated in the AF Guide is not what I saw on the test drives or what I use daily with the 5D3. The 5D3 & the 1DX presented as identical in the AF display points GUI.

Besides, Canon are not going to overtly say "this is a change" are they? They'll present the present time reality.

PW

[JaxPhotoBuff]

It looks for sure like the red/black AF point issue has been completely addressed. Yay!
Now the firmware release for the 5D3 needs to ship and we'll all be up to date.

Maybe I'm just unobservant, but where in the manual does it say a change occurred?

Did you look through the 1DX AF Guide? I have had a couple of supervised test drives of pre-production 1DX, and I have a 5D3. What I'm seeing colorfully illustrated in the AF Guide is not what I saw on the test drives or what I use daily with the 5D3. The 5D3 & the 1DX presented as identical in the AF display points GUI.

Besides, Canon are not going to overtly say "this is a change" are they? They'll present the present time reality.

PW

PW, maybe you could help us out with a reference to the specific page in either the owner's manual or the AF guide that you think clears things up?  I have read both the earlier AF guide and the new version you referred to, but it appears I missed where it says that they AF points will stay lit red while shooting.  (I don't think the color illustrations were intended to convey that, but maybe I missed something).

That said, I did see in the owner's manual that there are settings to control when the AF points will light up that seem to include the ability to keep the AF points lit after achieving focus (see p. 100, "AF Point Display During Focus.")  However, I have not worked with the 5D Mark III and am currently shooting a 40D, so I don't know if that section is "news" to people concered about the red focus point issue.   

[Zouk]

Did you look through the 1DX AF Guide? I have had a couple of supervised test drives of pre-production 1DX, and I have a 5D3. What I'm seeing colorfully illustrated in the AF Guide is not what I saw on the test drives or what I use daily with the 5D3. The 5D3 & the 1DX presented as identical in the AF display points GUI.

Besides, Canon are not going to overtly say "this is a change" are they? They'll present the present time reality.

PW

I've got the original and the updated version here side-by-side.  The illustrations of how the AF points are lit are exactly the same between the two, as far as I can tell.

Are you making inferences based on the selected AF points being in red on the AI Servo pages?  Or is there an actual change in the verbage of the manual that indicates to you that the AF points are now lit differently?

[spinworkxroy]

Anyone saw this?
I took it off the Canon USE update on the AF system.

With the EOS 5D Mark III, a less-complex 63-zone metering system is used, and this is not linked to the AF system for helping with Automatic AF point selection. Both cameras have a separate processor dedicated to AF calculation tasks, such as AI Servo AF focus-tracking, in addition to the DIGIC 4 processor used by the EOS-1D X.

I noticed it said BOTH cameras have a seperate processor dedicated to AF…Really? I know the 1DX has a Digic4..nit the 5D3 also has a dedicated processor for AF? I think not ya? Just 1 Digic5+for everything am i right?

[kozakm]

People are still comparing the 5D MK III to the 1DX, they are completely different monsters. In my testing I saw only a little more than 1 stop improvement in high ISO with the 5D3 over the 5D2. I've downloaded and played with several 1DX files and they look absolutely phenomenal. The 1DX probably has at least a 3-stop advantage over the 5D2.

I agree that 1D X is completely different monster. But based on my testing of preproduction model of 1D X the difference between 1D X and 5D3 is only about 1/3 EV (together with noisy blotchy-colored shadows, unfortunately). And 5D3 is maybe 1/2 EV over 5D2 at high ISOs. So don't expect any miracles.

Btw, the speed was way faster than my 1D IV even in AI Servo, good job, Canon!