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Author Topic: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]  (Read 52815 times)

D_Rochat

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: June 14, 2012, 01:09:50 AM »
The only certainty is that none of us no what the hell we are talking about. If 1+ year ago someone had mentioned that the 1DsIII and 1DIV would merge into a 1DX, that person would have been called an idiot and flamed beyond belief. The armchair Canon executives can speculate all they want on what Canon will or won't do, but no one really knows. We can hope and dream, but that's it.

I would like to see a Canon mirrorless similar to the Olympus OM-D. That thing and a 17mm (34mm equivalent) would make a great little street camera

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: June 14, 2012, 01:09:50 AM »

briansquibb

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #136 on: June 14, 2012, 01:22:42 AM »
I have interest ,but would be fine with an optional grip, even with the (lack of) weather sealing that is implied.  The option to go either way would be attractive.
This.

Why do they even have to make the 1D size cameras? This makes them completely unattractive for me and others who NEVER want to have the extra size and bulk of a griped body.

A 1 series is LIGHTER than the 5DIII with a grip

briansquibb

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #137 on: June 14, 2012, 02:23:01 AM »
The only certainty is that none of us no what the hell we are talking about. If 1+ year ago someone had mentioned that the 1DsIII and 1DIV would merge into a 1DX, that person would have been called an idiot and flamed beyond belief. The armchair Canon executives can speculate all they want on what Canon will or won't do, but no one really knows. We can hope and dream, but that's it.

No, Canon publicly announced a long time ago that the 1Ds and 1D lines would merge.

October 2011 was the first time I remember seeing a press release about the merge

briansquibb

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #138 on: June 14, 2012, 02:56:37 AM »
The only certainty is that none of us no what the hell we are talking about. If 1+ year ago someone had mentioned that the 1DsIII and 1DIV would merge into a 1DX, that person would have been called an idiot and flamed beyond belief. The armchair Canon executives can speculate all they want on what Canon will or won't do, but no one really knows. We can hope and dream, but that's it.

No, Canon publicly announced a long time ago that the 1Ds and 1D lines would merge.

October 2011 was the first time I remember seeing a press release about the merge

The merging of the 1Ds/1D lines has been expected since the 1Ds Mark II when a Canon executive in Europe commented that it was planned.

See here:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/Canon-1ds-mkii-p1.shtml
Scroll down to "A Merger".

So yes, a lot of people have been expecting it for a long time.

So it was rumour/speculation then.

Personally I have never believed that the 1DX was a sucessor to the 1DS. It doesn't come even close, good camera though it might be.

briansquibb

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #139 on: June 14, 2012, 03:18:27 AM »
The only certainty is that none of us no what the hell we are talking about. If 1+ year ago someone had mentioned that the 1DsIII and 1DIV would merge into a 1DX, that person would have been called an idiot and flamed beyond belief. The armchair Canon executives can speculate all they want on what Canon will or won't do, but no one really knows. We can hope and dream, but that's it.

No, Canon publicly announced a long time ago that the 1Ds and 1D lines would merge.

October 2011 was the first time I remember seeing a press release about the merge

The merging of the 1Ds/1D lines has been expected since the 1Ds Mark II when a Canon executive in Europe commented that it was planned.

See here:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/Canon-1ds-mkii-p1.shtml
Scroll down to "A Merger".

So yes, a lot of people have been expecting it for a long time.

So it was rumour/speculation then.

Personally I have never believed that the 1DX was a sucessor to the 1DS. It doesn't come even close, good camera though it might be.

Last I checked, what comes out of the mouths of executives is generally pretty reliable and well above the rank of "rumor".

I had 40 years of listening to executives and most of the time all I heard was personal opinion (useless unless from the CEO), words without real meaning, words with a personal agenda, bs or 'facts without foundation'. Off the record comments from an executive to a tester should be taken with a pinch of salt.

How long from the rumour to 'fact' - 8 years?

The 1DX is IMO a replacement for the 1D4 - the 1DS3 was just dumped with the usual executive words around it to avoid upsetting the studio shooters


gmrza

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #140 on: June 14, 2012, 04:12:21 AM »

I had 40 years of listening to executives and most of the time all I heard was personal opinion (useless unless from the CEO), words without real meaning, words with a personal agenda, bs or 'facts without foundation'. Off the record comments from an executive to a tester should be taken with a pinch of salt.

How long from the rumour to 'fact' - 8 years?

The 1DX is IMO a replacement for the 1D4 - the 1DS3 was just dumped with the usual executive words around it to avoid upsetting the studio shooters

Alternatively, you could even view the 5DIII as the replacement for the 1DsIII.  That is assuming that a studio camera doesn't need top of the line weather sealing, and considering how the 5DII cannibalised sales of the 1DsIII.  Of course, that does not suit everybody...
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briansquibb

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: June 14, 2012, 04:17:33 AM »

I had 40 years of listening to executives and most of the time all I heard was personal opinion (useless unless from the CEO), words without real meaning, words with a personal agenda, bs or 'facts without foundation'. Off the record comments from an executive to a tester should be taken with a pinch of salt.

How long from the rumour to 'fact' - 8 years?

The 1DX is IMO a replacement for the 1D4 - the 1DS3 was just dumped with the usual executive words around it to avoid upsetting the studio shooters

Alternatively, you could even view the 5DIII as the replacement for the 1DsIII.  That is assuming that a studio camera doesn't need top of the line weather sealing, and considering how the 5DII cannibalised sales of the 1DsIII.  Of course, that does not suit everybody...

A 5DIII with grips could be used in the studio in the same way a 5DII would be.

However the IQ of the 5DII is not as good as the 1DS3 .....

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: June 14, 2012, 04:17:33 AM »

plam_1980

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #142 on: June 14, 2012, 04:39:28 AM »
A few things people are talking about confuse me.

Firstly, if Canon produce a higher MP 5D then it'll have to be more expensive than the 5D3 (as not to annoy people like me who have just bought one). Then they'll have their own version of the Nikon D800 that costs twice as much so nobody will buy it.

Secondly, if Canon produces a FF camera that is cheaper than the 5D3 then it'll have to be a lower spec. Say that of the 5D2. But Canon already have a camera the same spec as the 5D2... the 5D2. So why spend millions in development of a new product that replaces one they already have when they're going to sell it at the same price?

Because the 5D Mark 2 is a 3.5 year old camera. It isn't new and it isn't compatible with Canon's newer accessories.

For example, the 5D mark 2 does not hook up to the new GPS adapter.

Secondly, the sensor is old. A newer sensor would allow PDAF with (for example) the 40/2.8 IS STM in live view.

Need I continue?

Interesting points, Dilbert but it still feels to me like a lot of work and cost to Canon to fill an awkward gap in the line up that perhaps doesn't really need filling... or at least may disappear in a year or so when the 5D3 price starts to drop or the 7D2 comes up from the rear.

Although the 5D2 is getting on a bit the IQ does still fits between the 7D and 5D3. Just my thoughts anyway and you're of course entitled to your own. I do however think compatibility with the latest accessories is a valid reason to end the line... or at least push out a firmware update.

1) How do you know the 5D3 price will drop? Afterall, the 5D2 price never dropped very much. What if in 2 years the 5D3 is still over $3000?

2) What if there is no 7D2?

Imagine that you are shopping for a camera. Amongst your choices are a $2200 camera that is over 3 years old. Scattered around it are newer cameras with more megapixels and better IQ. Just how attractive is that 3 year old camera really going to be?

Sorry to disagree with you, i feel Ayelike has some valid points and you are not addressing them :
1. I suppose he says why anyone will buy a new camera if it will have so similar specifications to 5D2 (the GPS adapter and PDAF alone are not sufficient in my view) when the competition has a new camera with better specs at lower price?

2. Why would anyone buy a Canon 5HD at double the price of D800, or if Canon 5HD is less expensive, why is 5D3 so expensive?

In general you are discussing why someone would buy a new vs. an old Canon camera, but you are totally disregarding competition

Marsu42

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #143 on: June 14, 2012, 05:26:12 AM »
Sorry to disagree with you, i feel Ayelike has some valid points and you are not addressing them :
1. I suppose he says why anyone will buy a new camera if it will have so similar specifications to 5D2 (the GPS adapter and PDAF alone are not sufficient in my view) when the competition has a new camera with better specs at lower price?

The *advantage* of an older body is that it is has a debugged firmware, it runs magic lantern now (!) and there's plenty of 3rd party gear around. Of course time will change that, except for the sad fact that the 5d3 doesn't take other viewfinder screens - doh.

I just had a very good look at the raw samples of dpreview with Lightroom, and I have to say up to iso6400 I cannot tell the 5d2 and 5d3 apart if I don't use the "nicer" noise signature of the 5d3 as a clue. Esp. in problematic, darker areas the 5d3 is hardly any better. The d800 sensor blows Canon out of the water here - so that can't be it.

But there are some harder and softer facts that make the 5d3 an upgrade, but everyone has to evaluate him/herself if it's "worth it".I'm very torn myself because $3500 is very ambitious indeed for the 5d3, it is an enthusiast model after all with just 150k shutter rating, and Canon cut some corners like the crippled sd card controller & no assist beam.

* 6 fps (vs 4 fps mk2 or d800) - this really is a difference for bracketing or quck burst shots

* more precise af servo system - though it sucks in one-shot mode for lenses slower than f4, and it seems to have speed issues because the original design seems to have the faster 1dx in mind.

* quiet shutter mode - could make a difference if you are allowed to shoot in some places or not unless mirrorless cameras are around

* better control layout (the 5d2 is like a 40d on speed, the 5d3 is more like 60d/7d)

* better auto white balance

* no moiree in video

* better lcd like 1dx

* better sealing for peace of mind, though certainly not a 1d outdoor body

* updated firmware hardware support (radio flashes, gps)

* expanded firmware features like bracketing,  though magic lantern on the 5d2 (focus peaking, unlimited automatic bracketing, timer shots ...) is still way ahead.

psolberg

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #144 on: June 14, 2012, 06:38:28 AM »
4 cameras are IMO far more predictable, and much less exciting:

-new entry level rebel
-60D update
-7D update
-G line update.

There will not be a 5DII replacement until the 5D4. A full frame high MP body is plaussible, but then why did canon pretended to merge the 1Ds and 1D line just to split them again?. I guess they are re-considering their move since Nikon didn't do that and will instead release a D4x. If it is a 1D style body with big MP from canon, expect 8 - 10 thousand dollar price tag.



iP337

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #145 on: June 14, 2012, 06:41:09 AM »
More Wish-Listing!!!

Here's what I expect/wish for the Canon 2012 lineup

*$500 range: A pocketable 18mp APS-C Mirrorless with 40/2.8 STM and PDAF to replace the 1100D and to compete with NEX and Fuji cameras. (Entry level Mirrorless?)
$900 range: The 650D
*$1300 range: A 22mp APS-C with improved morie and aliasing in 7D like body and feature set. (70D?)
$1600 range: The 7D, with added 650D PDAF & noise performance via firmware update or Magic Lantern support :-D
$2000 range: The 5D mark II
*$2500 range: A retro rangefinder style 22mp "Photo Full Frame" mirrorless with 650D like features (Entry level FF?)
*$3000 range: High Mp "Full Frame" with a 22Mp (or 18Mp) APS-C crop mode in a 5Dmk3 body & features. (7D mkII?)
$3500 range: The 5D mark III
$7000 range: I don't care...

BXL

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #146 on: June 14, 2012, 08:56:03 AM »
I think this rumor is CR2 because it's pretty easy to assume 4 DSLRs from Canon this year.

Considering Canon's delays in shipping announced products and the just announced 650D, I think four new DSLRs this year is a flight of imagination.
Good point. I believe that we already know 3 of those rumored 4 DSLRs: 1D X, 5D III and 650D. The 70D will be released for sale around Photokina while a prototype of the high MP DSLR (1Ds IV ?) might be announced at Photokina for 2013. I don't see a 7D replacement too soon (maybe around Q3 2012).

And those rumored mirror less cameras are no DSLR, so don't count them... ;-)

BTW: I would also prefer the 60D over the 650D.

on top of that the 650d is also about 270 euro more expencive at release then the 600d was so canon is going the wrong way with its pricing...

???

Sorry, but the 600D (Kit with the EF-S 18-55 mm IS II) was available for 849,- Euro and the 650D (Kit with the EF-S 18-55 mm IS II) is available for 899,- Euro. That's a difference of "only" 50,- Euro and NOT 270,- Euro.

http://www.canon.de/About_Us/Press_Centre/Press_Releases/Consumer_News/Cameras_Accessories/20110207_DSLR_EOS_600D.aspx
http://www.canon.de/About_Us/Press_Centre/Press_Releases/Consumer_News/Cameras_Accessories/Canon_unveils_new_EOS_650D.aspx

BTW, Nikon has much more friendly prices on their mid-range lenses. Their 28mm f/1.8 costs less than the Canon 28mm f/2.8 fore instance.
The EF 28mm f/1.8 USM also costs less (545,- Euro)  than the EF 28mm f/2.8 IS USM (799,- Euro)... so what is your point?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 09:33:58 AM by BXL »
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candyman

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #147 on: June 14, 2012, 11:15:59 AM »
this is wishful thinking.... 8)
I guess with the upcoming firmware, the MKII will not be one of the 4 DSLR's to be released/announced this year but shall be released/announced in 2013.
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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #147 on: June 14, 2012, 11:15:59 AM »

briansquibb

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #148 on: June 14, 2012, 11:31:12 AM »
How long from the rumour to 'fact' - 8 years?

The 1DX is IMO a replacement for the 1D4 - the 1DS3 was just dumped with the usual executive words around it to avoid upsetting the studio shooters

Does it matter how long it took?

And do you have reason to believe that it could have been any quicker than it was?

And for what it's worth, your opinion on the positioning of the 1DX is a whole lot less valuable than any comment from a Canon exec.

My 'opinion'  is a comparison of  two real cameras - not  vapourware of an event  that might or might not happen somewhere in the future.  Shame you have to keep putting down people for saying their opinion.

Do you really think the 18mps ff 1DX is a sucessor to a 21mps ff?

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #149 on: June 14, 2012, 11:38:45 AM »
this is wishful thinking.... 8)
I guess with the upcoming firmware, the MKII will not be one of the 4 DSLR's to be released/announced this year but shall be released/announced in 2013.

I could see a 7-C camera coming before a 7Dmk2.

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Re: 4 More DSLRs Coming in 2012? [CR2]
« Reply #149 on: June 14, 2012, 11:38:45 AM »