Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6

[Albi86]

If Canon comes out with a new camera to answer the Nikon D600, it will most likely be the 70D

if 70d is FF, then xxxd and xxd owners cannot really upgrade to it if they have invested into efs (like me  ).

I am more in favout of 8d/6d to be cheaper FF.

Why exactly would a full frame 70D keep your from upgrading to an APS-C 7D MkII?

I upgraded from a 50D to a 7D, because I felt the 60D wasn't an upgrade for my type of shooting.

You understand how unlikey it is that a hypothetical 70D will be a FF camera, right?

[whatta]

If Canon comes out with a new camera to answer the Nikon D600, it will most likely be the 70D

if 70d is FF, then xxxd and xxd owners cannot really upgrade to it if they have invested into efs (like me  ).

I am more in favout of 8d/6d to be cheaper FF.

Why exactly would a full frame 70D keep your from upgrading to an APS-C 7D MkII?

I upgraded from a 50D to a 7D, because I felt the 60D wasn't an upgrade for my type of shooting.

edit: for that matter you could upgrade to a 7D today.

well, 7d is too big and heavy for me and 7d2 will be too expensive too
a 7d in 60d body (=? 70d) would be just right for me. mainly af and viewfinder what I'd like from 7d.

[TTMartin]

If Canon comes out with a new camera to answer the Nikon D600, it will most likely be the 70D

if 70d is FF, then xxxd and xxd owners cannot really upgrade to it if they have invested into efs (like me  ).

I am more in favout of 8d/6d to be cheaper FF.

Why exactly would a full frame 70D keep your from upgrading to an APS-C 7D MkII?

I upgraded from a 50D to a 7D, because I felt the 60D wasn't an upgrade for my type of shooting.

You understand how unlikey it is that a hypothetical 70D will be a FF camera, right?

No I don't understand that at all. I find it so silly that everybody thinks that if Canon introduces an ENTRY LEVEL full frame camera, that it would have to have a XD moniker.

The only reason there is a 60D at all, is that when Canon upgraded the 50D to the 7D, everybody kept asking 'where is the 60D?'. So, Canon had both a marketing opportunity and a dilemma, slot a camera between the Rebel series and the 7D. So, Canon built the Super Rebel 60D.

There is absolutely no reason that the XXD line has to continue as an APS-C camera. It actually makes a lot more sense to have entry level APS-C cameras be XXXD/Rebels, and an entry level full frame camera be XXD cameras, and your pro level cameras regardless of sensor be XD.

[whatta]

If Canon comes out with a new camera to answer the Nikon D600, it will most likely be the 70D

if 70d is FF, then xxxd and xxd owners cannot really upgrade to it if they have invested into efs (like me  ).

I am more in favout of 8d/6d to be cheaper FF.

There is absolutely no reason that the XXD line has to continue as an APS-C camera. It actually makes a lot more sense to have entry level APS-C cameras be XXXD/Rebels, and an entry level full frame camera be XXD cameras, and your pro level cameras regardless of sensor be XD.

let's have a 70D apsc and a 70DX for FF then

[dlleno]

There is absolutely no reason that the XXD line has to continue as an APS-C camera. It actually makes a lot more sense to have entry level APS-C cameras be XXXD/Rebels, and an entry level full frame camera be XXD cameras, and your pro level cameras regardless of sensor be XD.

could be!  nor is there any reason why 7D2 cant be APS-H.  most of us here would quickly adjust to whatever Canon does. 

Canon can do whatever they want, but their marketing departement might tell them that the 70D brand is important, and that the upgrade path for people with EF-S lenses from 60D to the Rebel branded camera is not acceptable.  Here is where we are venturing into the marketing mind of Canon, a venue where not many of us are qualified...

I like 70DX though.  cool suggestion  by TMartin. 

[BXL]

I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life?

Only if you buy EF-S lenses. However, many of us buy EF (L) lenses and those work on FF as well. The advantage of APS-C (and the prosumer/pro 7D) is that you can get a much longer reach.

[briansquibb]

I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life?

Only if you buy EF-S lenses. However, many of us buy EF (L) lenses and those work on FF as well. The advantage of APS-C (and the prosumer/pro 7D) is that you can get a much longer reach.

I haven't got any EF-S lens because none of them are long enough. The longest decent ef-s lens is the 15-85 which hardly counts as a sports/wildfife lens - too short, too slow

[Richard8971]

I think you guys are forgetting something in your "thoughts" about future cameras.

The XXXXD is Canon's entry level DSLR now, so there is no reason for the Rebel class to be classed as an entry level DSLR anymore and the features seen on the new T4i equals some found on the 60D/7D and proves my point that Canon is moving that direction.

With canons new mirrorless entry soon and 4 APS-C cameras in the line up, there is going to be a lot of competition for sales.

The recent "downgrading" of the XXD line so as to NOT compete with the 7D makes me think that the merging of the XXD line and XD line is in the works. Again why would they downgrade the line just to bring it back as the flagship APS-C body and get rid of the XD line? The success of the 7D was extremely impressive so why wouldn't Canon run with it in the next upgrade to the Canon lineup?

The XXXXD line is the entry level
The XXXD line is the mid-level
The XD line is the flagship APS-C

That leaves room for a mirrorless interchangeable camera AND plenty of room for a entry level FF as well as a high performance APS-H. But Canon is going to do whatever they want to do and hopefully soon we will find out who is right and who is wrong.

Who cares what Nikon is doing. The recent features and price of the 5DIII and 1DX prove that Canon isn't "worried" about Nikon's cheap camera offerings. Also Nikon is going the route of high MP/low cost cameras and Canon is sticking with mostly 18MP offerings and a higher price. I think Canon is only worried about doing things their own thing right now.

D

[wickidwombat]

or xxxxD disapear / become mirrorless APS-C

xxxD entry level DSLR

xxD or xD top level APS-C doesnt matter there can be only 1

if xxD is the top APS-C then they might get creative with the
xD and make it a Premium sports / wildlife body say maybe something along the lines of
a 1Dmk4 in a 5Dmk3 body

[Richard8971]

or xxxxD disapear / become mirrorless APS-C

xxxD entry level DSLR

xxD or xD top level APS-C doesnt matter there can be only 1

if xxD is the top APS-C then they might get creative with the
xD and make it a Premium sports / wildlife body say maybe something along the lines of
a 1Dmk4 in a 5Dmk3 body

True... I would have to agree with this.

D

[Richard8971]

I upgraded from a 50D to a 7D, because I felt the 60D wasn't an upgrade for my type of shooting.

When I had to upgrade from my 40D, the 60D wasn't even worth looking at in MO. I went straight for the 7!!!

D

[dlleno]

I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life?

Only if you buy EF-S lenses. However, many of us buy EF (L) lenses and those work on FF as well. The advantage of APS-C (and the prosumer/pro 7D) is that you can get a much longer reach.

The "reach" APS-C argument doesn't really belong in the same room with the EF-S lens compatibility argument.  with the possible exception of the bargin zoom, 55-250 or whatever it is, the folks who want "reach" don't buy EF-S long lenses -- they buy long "L" glass,  and after market FF compatible long lenses.

  The only practical value to  the EF-S compatibility argument is for the WA and UWAs -- the 10-22s and the 17-55s and the 15-85s  -- where a significant investment has been already made, both in $ and in IQ, that cannot be utilized in FF.  These folks have to either sell their EF-S lenses and re-invest, or keep the old APS-C body.  If one has invested in long EF-S glass, that investment is not very sizable. 

[Richard8971]

I think everyone is forgetting that Canon APS-C, APS-H and full frame (35mm equivalent) sensors exist today for two reasons.

1) They correspond to existing film formats, making the switch from film to digital easier for those doing so. The logic behind Canon using these formats in digital sensors is clear.

2) The different sensors have different costs involved in production allowing Canon could offer budget minded entry level cameras ranging to the high performance professional cameras. APS-C sensors cost much less to produce than an equivalent MP full frame sensor!

Am I unhappy that the different formats exist? NO! They all offer something the other cannot. I use my 7D just as much as my 5DII! It all depends on what I want to shoot. I still throw my T1i (with my EF-s 60mm 2.8 macro) in my backpack when I want a throw-and-go camera that will consistently take awesome shots even though I have a sweet full frame 5DII to use whenever I need it! Now, I COULD throw my EF 100mm 2.8 macro on my 5DII, but the DOF (and sharpness, and ease of use) on the T1i/60mm is unmatched.

Now, will cameras exist one day that are all full frame? Maybe. Will Canon develop medium format digital sensors? That's very likely. There will be no end to the megapixel race as well as to the size of the sensor. (http://news.yahoo.com/supercameras-could-capture-never-seen-detail-171825569.html) For now, we have what we have.

D

[Richard8971]

I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life?

Only if you buy EF-S lenses. However, many of us buy EF (L) lenses and those work on FF as well. The advantage of APS-C (and the prosumer/pro 7D) is that you can get a much longer reach.

The "reach" APS-C argument doesn't really belong in the same room with the EF-S lens compatibility argument.  with the possible exception of the bargin zoom, 55-250 or whatever it is, the folks who want "reach" don't buy EF-S long lenses -- they buy long "L" glass,  and after market FF compatible long lenses.

  The only practical value to  the EF-S compatibility argument is for the WA and UWAs -- the 10-22s and the 17-55s and the 15-85s  -- where a significant investment has been already made, both in $ and in IQ, that cannot be utilized in FF.  These folks have to either sell their EF-S lenses and re-invest, or keep the old APS-C body.  If one has invested in long EF-S glass, that investment is not very sizable.

Tell that to Canon, they keep making EF-s glass and some of it is expensive! I own some EF-s glass that I wouldn't trade for anything!

D

[briansquibb]

I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life?

Only if you buy EF-S lenses. However, many of us buy EF (L) lenses and those work on FF as well. The advantage of APS-C (and the prosumer/pro 7D) is that you can get a much longer reach.

The "reach" APS-C argument doesn't really belong in the same room with the EF-S lens compatibility argument.  with the possible exception of the bargin zoom, 55-250 or whatever it is, the folks who want "reach" don't buy EF-S long lenses -- they buy long "L" glass,  and after market FF compatible long lenses.

  The only practical value to  the EF-S compatibility argument is for the WA and UWAs -- the 10-22s and the 17-55s and the 15-85s  -- where a significant investment has been already made, both in $ and in IQ, that cannot be utilized in FF.  These folks have to either sell their EF-S lenses and re-invest, or keep the old APS-C body.  If one has invested in long EF-S glass, that investment is not very sizable.

Tell that to Canon, they keep making EF-s glass and some of it is expensive! I own some EF-s glass that I wouldn't trade for anything!

D

What is being said is that for reach there is no EF-S glass

Even at the wide end AF glass is better for FF

It all boils down to how much you are prepared to spend on a camera system, the more specialist the more money.

There is a leap between the (relatively) cheap 7D and the ff bodies and the glass that is needed to support ff