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Author Topic: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6  (Read 81440 times)

Richard8971

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #135 on: June 19, 2012, 12:12:58 AM »
(its nice to be able to have these discussions / arguements without it degenerating into name calling :D)

Oh I agree. :)  Part of the "rumors" thing is that I really don't know for sure, but it's fun to speculate.

D
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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #135 on: June 19, 2012, 12:12:58 AM »

Richard8971

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #136 on: June 19, 2012, 12:29:09 AM »
I dont care what its called but I would like to see a high end APS-H sensor equiped camera that is a 5D form factor.

I don't think the APS-H is "dead" as others would think. I would believe that Canon will produce a APS-H high performace camera body in the next year or so, based on the 120MP APS-H prototype sensor they made a year ago. :D

D
Canon 6D, 5D2, 7Dv2.03, 50D, 40D, T1i, XTi...XT (& lenses, flahses), various powershots... You get the idea... I have a problem. :)

Wife shoots Nikon, D7000, D7100, (lenses and flashes)... we constantly tease each other that our cameras are better than each others!

wickidwombat

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #137 on: June 19, 2012, 12:38:50 AM »
I dont care what its called but I would like to see a high end APS-H sensor equiped camera that is a 5D form factor.

I don't think the APS-H is "dead" as others would think. I would believe that Canon will produce a APS-H high performace camera body in the next year or so, based on the 120MP APS-H prototype sensor they made a year ago. :D

D

LOL wouldnt that be funny wait for all the MP junkies to have switched to nikon sold all their lovelly L glass then say "stuff it you know what lets just release this bad boy who cares if anything can actually resolve it"
mind you even with dual digic 5+ i would think 120MP APS-H would struggle to push out more than 2 fps if it was lucky, still landscapers would go gaga for it

« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 12:41:39 AM by wickidwombat »
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Chewngum

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #138 on: June 19, 2012, 12:48:16 AM »
I dont care what its called but I would like to see a high end APS-H sensor equiped camera that is a 5D form factor.

I don't think the APS-H is "dead" as others would think. I would believe that Canon will produce a APS-H high performace camera body in the next year or so, based on the 120MP APS-H prototype sensor they made a year ago. :D

D

I sincerely doubt the 120MP sensor will be making into a DSLR, imagine the 200MB files with current computing power and storage speeds. I do think that APS-H is not coming back and hope that it doesn't. I would much prefer Canon put some real R&D into APS-C and produce something which even nearly matches what competitors have been offering for years, think Pentax K5 or Sony 16MP. APS-C would give the reach people are asking for in a pro body, pair it with the 1d4 AF and your set. Then it would retain f8 focusing for the people who like essentially using telescopes and given the right build would be a worthy filler for the wildlife and super-duper-telephoto photographers. Price it at $2500AUD $2100US 2000EURO and people will happily pay the premium for some pro-er features and it'll be king of the crops.
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Wild

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #139 on: June 19, 2012, 12:54:47 AM »
I dont care what its called but I would like to see a high end APS-H sensor equiped camera that is a 5D form factor.

I don't think the APS-H is "dead" as others would think. I would believe that Canon will produce a APS-H high performace camera body in the next year or so, based on the 120MP APS-H prototype sensor they made a year ago. :D

D

120 megapixels?! Those'd sell like hotcakes!  Why aren't they selling those already???  ;)

In all seriousness though, I think the safest bet here is an upgraded 70d to the top of the line aps-c, and getting rid of the 7d line.  Why?  Because Canon won't just let Nikon steal all the thunder with an entry-level FF.  And with an entry level FF at a similar price point to a 7dii, what's the point of the 7d line? (We know the point, but most consumers wouldn't) Why not just go back to the old days where xxD was top of the line aps-c?

Make the 70d a 7dii-equivalent, but price it a few hundred less than the FF entry level camera, and everybody is happy (including Canon since they won't have two cameras at the same price competing for sales).

Oh and if they do decide to release an entry-level full frame, my money is going to it being called a 6d  ;D

wickidwombat

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #140 on: June 19, 2012, 12:54:55 AM »
I dont care what its called but I would like to see a high end APS-H sensor equiped camera that is a 5D form factor.

I don't think the APS-H is "dead" as others would think. I would believe that Canon will produce a APS-H high performace camera body in the next year or so, based on the 120MP APS-H prototype sensor they made a year ago. :D

D

I sincerely doubt the 120MP sensor will be making into a DSLR, imagine the 200MB files with current computing power and storage speeds. I do think that APS-H is not coming back and hope that it doesn't. I would much prefer Canon put some real R&D into APS-C and produce something which even nearly matches what competitors have been offering for years, think Pentax K5 or Sony 16MP. APS-C would give the reach people are asking for in a pro body, pair it with the 1d4 AF and your set. Then it would retain f8 focusing for the people who like essentially using telescopes and given the right build would be a worthy filler for the wildlife and super-duper-telephoto photographers. Price it at $2500AUD $2100US 2000EURO and people will happily pay the premium for some pro-er features and it'll be king of the crops.

if they just took the 1Dmk4 bits as they are now stuck it all in a 5Dmk3 body and sold it at $2500 i would buy one as soon as i could find one :P even if it is only 16MP
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Richard8971

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #141 on: June 19, 2012, 01:31:10 AM »
Make the 70d a 7dii-equivalent, but price it a few hundred less than the FF entry level camera, and everybody is happy (including Canon since they won't have two cameras at the same price competing for sales).

Won't happen. The 60D has become the "joke" of the Canon EOS bodies (I have seen it being called "The Rebel that should have been") compared to features found on previous XXD bodies. (What? The 30D had 5 fps as well... wait, at least the 30D had a metal body...) Tell me what other Canon EOS body was DOWNGRADED and then UPGRADED to the flagship body.

Like I have said, the 7D was designed and marketed as the FLAGSHIP APS-C camera body and will remain so. Can anyone give me a reasonable reason why the 7D replacement (and continue the 7D name) will not continue this tradition?? Oh and what marketing strategy are you basing your logic on? Remember, marketing (sales based on previous bodies) is the only thing Canon will be concerned with when they make a APS-C replacement and if you don't believe me, then you going to be sadly dissapointed with your prediction(s).

The 60D was "downgraded" so AS NOT TO DIRECTLY COMPETE with the 7D. Fact, fact, fact... :D

So now why would the so called "future" 70D compete with the 7D OR it's replacement? Based on history, the 70D should be, "feature-wise" somewhere in the lines of the 40D or XSi.... Makes sense to me. :) I mean why not? The new T4i is darn near a 60D in a slightly smaller body, so where does that leave the 70D? 7D status? They already have a 7D status camera body, THE 7D!!!

D
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 01:58:40 AM by Richard8971 »
Canon 6D, 5D2, 7Dv2.03, 50D, 40D, T1i, XTi...XT (& lenses, flahses), various powershots... You get the idea... I have a problem. :)

Wife shoots Nikon, D7000, D7100, (lenses and flashes)... we constantly tease each other that our cameras are better than each others!

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #141 on: June 19, 2012, 01:31:10 AM »

briansquibb

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #142 on: June 19, 2012, 02:06:40 AM »
The XD (7D) body was meant to be a test bed for the features found in the 5DIII, 1DX and other future cameras and was DESIGNED AND MARKETED to be the flagship APS-C camera.

Now, tell me WHY Canon would "upgrade" a dying, "downgraded" XXD class body in favor of dropping it's current flagship XD line? (7D)

The 7D upgrade (7DII) WILL remain APS-C AND the flagship camera body, you can bank on it.

D

The 7D is the top prosumer sports body and that is a niche that Canon have dominated for some years.

There is no reason why Canon cannot trickle down and improve this technology into the 70D - the traditional nomenclature for the prosumer range

In place of the 7D a new sports body would be needed to surpass the 70D. I dont believe the technology is important for the sports camera however it would have to:

- be good for birds/wildlife
- be good for sports
- be good in low light
- be good at higher iso (to keep the shutter speed fast)
- have good IQ/DR for bigger prints

There are 3 current technologies, APS-C, APS-H, FF

The difficulty here is that APS-C and FF fail on several points whereas APS-H is good (not excelling) at all of them

I believe that the EF-S issue can be discounted for a sports camera as the sports lens are all EF. Those with the high value EF-S lens would have a 70D which be at least as good as the 7D - perhaps with the same sensor as the 650D plus other enhancements

That leave APS-H as the easiest technology to use - as it has already been developed into the best sports camera, So trickling that technology down to the sports camera would cost least, be quick to get to market and give Canon a high profit body (due to the low R&D)

Wild

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #143 on: June 19, 2012, 03:19:49 AM »
Make the 70d a 7dii-equivalent, but price it a few hundred less than the FF entry level camera, and everybody is happy (including Canon since they won't have two cameras at the same price competing for sales).

Won't happen. The 60D has become the "joke" of the Canon EOS bodies (I have seen it being called "The Rebel that should have been") compared to features found on previous XXD bodies. (What? The 30D had 5 fps as well... wait, at least the 30D had a metal body...) Tell me what other Canon EOS body was DOWNGRADED and then UPGRADED to the flagship body.

Like I have said, the 7D was designed and marketed as the FLAGSHIP APS-C camera body and will remain so. Can anyone give me a reasonable reason why the 7D replacement (and continue the 7D name) will not continue this tradition?? Oh and what marketing strategy are you basing your logic on? Remember, marketing (sales based on previous bodies) is the only thing Canon will be concerned with when they make a APS-C replacement and if you don't believe me, then you going to be sadly dissapointed with your prediction(s).

The 60D was "downgraded" so AS NOT TO DIRECTLY COMPETE with the 7D. Fact, fact, fact... :D

So now why would the so called "future" 70D compete with the 7D OR it's replacement? Based on history, the 70D should be, "feature-wise" somewhere in the lines of the 40D or XSi.... Makes sense to me. :) I mean why not? The new T4i is darn near a 60D in a slightly smaller body, so where does that leave the 70D? 7D status? They already have a 7D status camera body, THE 7D!!!

D


Let's just assume here for a second (this is a rumors site here so cut me some slack) that if and when the D600 is released at around $1500 (the D800 rumors of $3K were spot on if you remember) that Canon will more than likely release a new body to compete.  All signs point to an entry-level FF anyways so it's more than likely to compete on pricing.  So if Canon does release this body in the $1500-$2000 range, they're going to release a new version of the 7D in the same exact price range, if not more?  That just doesn't make much sense - from a marketing stand point. I mean there's already enough confusion for consumers as it stands now, let alone if they release two more new bodies, one with the superior FF sensor with less features and one with an aps-c sensor with more features, at nearly the same price. Just doesn't add up if you look at it from a pricing perspective.

A 70d bump into the premium aps-c spot in the lineup makes sense.  If they did however progress both the 60d and 7d with aps-c sensors, then what?  A $850 T4i, a $1500ish 70d, and a $2000ish 7dii? Doesn't add up with a prospective entry-level FF (unless of course Canon's answer to the D600 is a $2700 6D FF camera)  ;D

Wild

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #144 on: June 19, 2012, 03:29:19 AM »
That leaves APS-H as the easiest technology to use - as it has already been developed into the best sports camera, So trickling that technology down to the sports camera would cost least, be quick to get to market and give Canon a high profit body (due to the low R&D)

I'm right there with ya on the 70d being able to be bumped up to the 7d's spot, and that an aps-h sensor'd body would be a great alternative for the affordable pro sports camera, rather than another aps-c body.

Also, they bumped the 1d series up to FF, why can't they bump the 7d up to aps-h?  Sounds reasonable to me...then again when has that ever mattered?  ;D

lola

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #145 on: June 19, 2012, 05:15:51 AM »
If D600 is announced with the rumored specs and a price tag of $1500, there's no salvation for Canon after that. Fanboys were always good with finding blind excuses for dynamic range, resolution and stuff but I wonder what they'll say for the presumably good full-frame D600 with a $1500 price tag...
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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #146 on: June 19, 2012, 07:19:49 AM »
Who cares about Full Frame. Not me that is for sure.
I would like a camera 7D style APS-C with better AF and better noise control. The 7D itself is already a terrific body.

When going to FF it means that I will have to invest in glass as well. More mm to get the same VOF. Don't give me the crap of adding extenders because:
  • A) Already using extenders
  • B) With extenders you will loose a stop of light (or two), but more important, you will loose AF speed and accuracy

Example the 300 F4 on an APS-C wil give you 480mm F4. This lens costs USD 1,500
To get the same VOF and aperture, you will need the 500 F4. This lens is just USD 9,000

Just explain to me why an wildlife photographer shooting birds would want to go FF. Why?

briansquibb

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #147 on: June 19, 2012, 07:50:59 AM »
Who cares about Full Frame. Not me that is for sure.
I would like a camera 7D style APS-C with better AF and better noise control. The 7D itself is already a terrific body.

When going to FF it means that I will have to invest in glass as well. More mm to get the same VOF. Don't give me the crap of adding extenders because:
  • A) Already using extenders
  • B) With extenders you will loose a stop of light (or two), but more important, you will loose AF speed and accuracy

Example the 300 F4 on an APS-C wil give you 480mm F4. This lens costs USD 1,500
To get the same VOF and aperture, you will need the 500 F4. This lens is just USD 9,000

Just explain to me why an wildlife photographer shooting birds would want to go FF. Why?

This is why there is the suggestion of an APS-H sensor in the same body. The better high iso performance allows you to keep the shutter speed up at dawn and dusk. The equivalent lens to the 300  f/4 would be the 400 f/5.8 at a simillar cost.

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #147 on: June 19, 2012, 07:50:59 AM »

dlleno

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #148 on: June 19, 2012, 10:31:04 AM »
...I am not sure I see the XXD becoming FF. Reason? It's the same reason why the XD line will not become FF, too many XXD owners and XD owners have EF-s lenses. An upgrade HAS to be justified by the buyer and if the upgrade cannot use ones current hardware, what's the point of upgrading?

Example, the 5D line has ALWAYS been FF, just as the Rebel line has ALWAYS been APS-C and so on and so on. Canon intergrated two high performance lines (1Ds and 1D) for the better, BUT APS-H bodies CANNOT use EF-s lenses SO, it makes sense to upgrade to the newer body.

I forsee the XXD and XD line becoming the new flagship APS-C camera (into the 7DII) and a new 5 series (or 3D) FF entry level. Canon will likely stay within current camera labels or create new ones (I.E. 3D or 6D) Simple marketing is my reasoning, they will likely keep the current tried and proven trends going.

D

nothing wrong with your reasoning;  I would just bring in the following factors that seem to get left out of the discussions:

1.  Canon has already telegraphed a willingness to shake up what has "always" been, in the product line, by merging the 1D and 1DS.   So names like 7D2 and 7DX could appear, even at the same time, or some new integer that hasn't been used before. 

2.  The "glass" impact in (1) above for the 1D folks is not trivial.  these guys have to either buy more glass and/or produce lower res shots by cropping.  This is no insignificant thing especially for birds and small wildlife.  make no mistake:  the distance-constrained situation does actually happen, in spite of all the comments from those are speaking without experience.   

3.  Canon has not yet telegraphed how they will maintain their stated commitment to pro wildlife market

These factors leave lots of room to speculate on how Canon will fulfill (3) above.  I see two possibilities

1.  APS-H is out:  pretty clear;  7D2 re-asserted as flagship crop body in APS-C and the pro togs carry a 7D2 as a second body.  I'm still not sure there is room for four APS-C bodies... but thats another subject

2.  APS-H is in: no matter what the new H body may be called, there will still be a premier APS-C body, so current 7D owners will have a choice to upgrade to the latest APS-C or have both H and C bodies to preserve their EF-S investment. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 01:09:57 PM by dlleno »

pknight

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #149 on: June 19, 2012, 10:49:03 AM »
The APS-H is a compromise for everyone.  Those who want "reach" don't want to drop down to 1.3x, and those who want FF benefits don't want to, well, drop down to 1.3x.  It should die.

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Re: Odds & Ends: 70D, 7D2, New Full Frame, D600 & Photoshop CS6
« Reply #149 on: June 19, 2012, 10:49:03 AM »