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Author Topic: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?  (Read 5642 times)

Loren E

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Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« on: April 21, 2014, 02:17:55 AM »
The Canon 50mm F1.2L certainly can produce a beautiful photo, and has wonderful bokeh, but there are still many complaints that users have regarding softness wide open, focus shift, and major AF shortcomings. This lens was released 8 years ago. Do folks think that Sigma's production of their 50 F1.4 art will put pressure on Canon to release a higher-performing 50 F1.2L II to outcompete it? If the Sigma ends up performing as well as anticipated, at its price I would think many 50L users might jump ship. Curious to hear folks' thoughts on this...

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Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« on: April 21, 2014, 02:17:55 AM »

Jim Saunders

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2014, 02:54:28 AM »
A new Canon 50?  Probably.
IS? Probably.
Fast?  Naturally.

1.2?  I'm not so sure.  On the one hand is the current 24-70 family to make a comparative case that Canon is happy with tailoring lenses to a range of price/performance points.  On the other I'm sure they're very aware of how much attention Zeiss and Sigma have received for their 1.4s, so I'd opine that a good ~$600 50 f/1.4 IS II makes more sense than showing up late to a party thrown by two of their competitors. 

After that a terrific 50 f/1.2L II with a price in between the Otus and the Art is where I'd go if it was my choice.

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2014, 08:13:29 AM »
No, I don't think Sigma's release will affect what Canon is doing much at all.  It probably takes 3+ years for Canon to do R&D, optimize, field test, spool up tooling, and then release.  If Canon started thinking about a retrofocal design for the 50mm after the Otus came out, the R&D effort would have started before the Sigma came out.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 50 IS were a modified Gauss design.  It won't be as good as the Sigma, but will come with IS and will be smaller (like the 24, 28 and 35 IS).  The 50L replacement is more interesting.  The Sigma and Zeiss lenses are heavy.  Can Canon make it f/1.2 while keeping the weight and price competitive?  Or will Canon be forced to go to f/1.4?

neuroanatomist

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2014, 08:33:17 AM »
Sigma's 50/1.4 A won't 'force' Canon to do anything.  They'll likely come out with a 50/2 IS delivering very good IQ, priced around $800, and that lens will probably outsell the Sigma. The Canon 50/1.4 will likely continue to outsell the Sigma, and the 50/1.8 II will far outsell both.  Cheaper sells.

If Canon updates the 50/1.2, which is probably a long way off, it'll remain f/1.2.  Ultrafast lenses and stellar superteles are some of Canon's 'calling cards'.
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Eldar

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2014, 08:40:35 AM »
What they´ll do may be one thing, what they should do another.

I don´t believe the Otus will have any impact on Canon´s plans. It is more than twice the 1.2L price, so even though it is better, it is big, expensive and manual focus, so I don´t believe they lost their sleep over that one.

But with the Sigma Art, it is different. Up until the Sigma came about, the offerings from Canon was OK, compared to the competition. I still find the 1.2L excellent for its use. But with the very competitively priced Sigma Art, Canon, like Nikon, is left in the dust and in my view, they must do something.

I think the f1.2 feature on the 50mm and 85mm is a magnet to many photographers, even though it matters close to nothing in practical terms, compared to f1.4. So a new red ringed 50mm (and 85mm) at f1.2, with IS, would tempt a lot of photographers, provided the IQ competes with the Otus and the Sigma.
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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2014, 09:00:08 AM »
I don't think it will have much influence on the 50L as that lens is specifically bokeh before sharpness. The replacement for the 50 1.4 - well that's a different thing altogether. I wonder if the development of the 50 Art is what has delayed the Canon 50 IS ? Canon must have been aware of what Sigma were up to. I don't think Canon will reply with a mainstream retrofocal 50 design, but their own new 50 is going to have to compete. I think Canon will 'cheat' as they did with the 35 IS and produce a slightly slower traditional 50 design that has IS and is also really sharp at whatever aperture it is. I'm guessing f2, possibly f1.8/7, but almost certainly not 1.4 IMO.

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2014, 10:25:40 AM »
As neuro mentioned "Cheaper sells". If rumor "Canon 50mm f2 IS" comes out tommorrow, the price needs to be right.

Since I'm not video guy, I prefer fast prime over IS - SHALLOW DOF.

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2014, 10:25:40 AM »

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2014, 11:11:33 AM »
As neuro mentioned "Cheaper sells". If rumor "Canon 50mm f2 IS" comes out tommorrow, the price needs to be right.

Since I'm not video guy, I prefer fast prime over IS - SHALLOW DOF.

Save that IS for UWA

I wouldn't be surprised if it came out around 800 initially and then street for a couple hundred less in a year or so.  I don't do video either, but I can see the value of IS for places like museums/churches where tripods aren't allowed, and for near macro (i.e. 0.3-0.4x) where you want to stop down to extend the DOF.

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2014, 12:33:00 PM »
I don't think there is much "pressure" for one company to match another's lenses.  Nikon's 35/1.4G followed Canon's 35/1.4L by about 15 years.  Similarly, Nikon's 24/1.4 followed Canon's 24/1.4 by many years.  Canon introduced a 70-200/4 in 1999 and updated it with IS in 2006.  Nikon introduced their 70-200/4 VR in 2012.  Canon never produced a 28/1.4 to match Nikon's, even though Nikon offered one from 1994 to 2006.  So where was the pressure in those instances? 

The Canon 50/1.2L fulfills its function well by drawing beautifully at fast apertures.  If updated, perhaps it will be improved with a floating element.  As for "softness", it is softer wide open than the Sigma 50/.4 Art and the Otus, but it is also more compact than either of those.  But it's not too soft.  Compare its MTF chart with that of the legendary f/0.95 Leica Noctilux on Photozone.de.    The Noctilux is only slightly sharper at center from f/0.95 to 1.6.  At f/2.0 the 50L *matches* the Noctilux at center.  From f/2.8 to 11, the 50L is sharper than the Noctilux at center, although the Noctilux is a little sharper at the borders.  So, not bad compared with a fast $11,000 lens.  As someone else wrote, these lenses are bought for their rendering rather than for ultimate sharpness.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 12:37:09 PM by zlatko »

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2014, 01:41:33 PM »
Sigma will not push Canon to do a damn thing. Canon will continue to move at their glacial pace and continue to make small updates to their cameras and lenses. And Canon will continue ot out sellcompetitors, even with their over inflated intial prices.... As long as people keep buying they won't change the way the run their business. Why would they?

zlatko

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2014, 02:13:03 PM »
You can complain about Canon's pace, but Canon has been first to market with a whole bunch of useful & successful products.  Also note that Sigma's new 50/1.4 is nearly *twice* the price of their old one.  When Canon introduces a new & improved product with such a big price increase, lots of people complain.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2014, 02:23:10 PM »
When Canon introduces a new & improved product with such a big price increase, lots of people complain.

When Canon introduces … lots of people complain.  When Canon doesn't introduce … lots of people complain. 

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 03:25:03 PM »
For some people the difference between f1.4 vs. f1.2 is quite significant in terms of the quality of bokeh and dreamy look. Why would Canon introduce a new 50mm f1.2 if the current version is already faster than Sigma's 50mm f1.4? But if Canon could get rid of the focus shift in the current version, I may buy it.

I'm still hunting for Minolta's 58mm f1.2 and I can't believe how expensive this old f1.2 lens is (~$600-700 with conversion to EOS mount)

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 03:25:03 PM »

Ruined

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2014, 05:19:56 PM »
Question makes no sense, the two lenses have totally different aims.

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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2014, 06:40:12 PM »
As long as Canon puts out a 50 prime with IS I agree with the consensus, it doesn't really matter what else is on the market. But, it does need to be f/2 or faster if Canon wants professionals and video people to pick it up. A 50mm f/2.8 IS won't make it into the bag of many who are getting paid to use their camera.
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Re: Will Sigma 50/1.4 Art push Canon to release a 50/1.2L II?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2014, 06:40:12 PM »